Handicaps & Tee Boxes

[fixyurdivot]

I understand how the math is done for handicaps based on tee boxes and course ratings.  What I'm not as familiar with is how players, particularly the low, single digit folks, choose which tees to play from.  It would seem that they could switch back and forth (not during a round mind you) to take advantage of a particular course layout where their length, left/right orientation, etc., favors them - even considering the loss of stroke(s) playing from the longer tees might afford?  The same would apply for higher handicap players though, generally being shorter length hitters, it wouldn't seem as beneficial.  Is this an option and a advantage in some cases?

[cnosil]

I usually pick my tee box based on total yardage.   You are correct,  some courses and some tee boxes favor a players distance or shot shape;   some people call that golf

 

 

[GB13]

I usually look at total yardage, and how at how long the par 3's are. I like to play courses around 6500 total. I can play longer, but it becomes a lot more challenging. As for par 3's, I like to keep the longest par 3 at or below 220. I hate playing more than a 2 iron into a par 3. 

[SteddyGolf]

The USGA gives very vague guidance and leaves the final decision up to the player. They also leave that decision to the tournament committee in competitive rounds.

I pick the tee box by total yardage only. I do not switch between tees in the middle of a round. However, 190 to 210 yard par 3s are extremely challenging for me especially when a water hazard comes into play close to that 190 yard mark. I’m always tempted to move up one tee on those holes and might do so in the future.

I hit the ball consistently straight but if a course layout from the Blue tees has me consistently hitting into the green from 200 plus yards I think long and hard about playing from the White Tees. We should all play from the Tee markers that best allows us to enjoy the game. If that means moving forward then so be it

While I was in Hawaii I did notice a specific race of people refused to play from the Men’s standard Tees. Regardless of skill level (or lack there of) this group almost always played from the tips. I found it quit interesting.


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[perseveringgolfer]

I ALWAYS want to play from the back tees- thats the course at it's true test.

 

I hate when I go to a new course and they tell me I MUST play from the forward tees! When it's costing me a lot of money for a round I want to experience the true course, even if it's very difficult. Wheres the challenge in playing a short easy course.

I do of course respect the other players and when we have a few high handicap short hitters in the group I'll happily play from the front tees as it makes the game fun for them. It's still a challenge and still fun.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

I am in the camp of choosing my tees based off of length. I am not the longest hitter but not a short hitter either. I play a 3 iron or hybrid at about 210-220, so that is the longest par 3 I care to play. While I am not willing to play fairway wood into a par 3, I am man enough to play every par 5 as 3 shot holes. Does that make me weird?

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[Mr. 82]

29 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

While I am not willing to play fairway wood into a par 3, I am man enough to play every par 5 as 3 shot holes. Does that make me weird?

Wierd?  Heck no.  If I played a golf course based on my ability to reach most of the par 5's in two, I'd be playing the "ladies tees" every time.

[Mr. 82]

Like others have noted, I look at the distance from each tee box, and lately if it's over 6,500 I move up to the next tee box.  And like I posted in a recent thread, I'm actually starting to consider courses in the 6,000 to 6,200 for my game these days.  I just don't hit it far any more, with my power 230 drives I'm best suited for courses at that length.  And if I see a par 4 of over 400 yards on the scorecard, I know I'll have trouble with that hole, based on nothing more than distance on that hole alone, as I'll probably have something like a hybrid or longer into that green.  And any par 3 of over 200 yards is way too long for me.  Golf just isn't any fun for me with holes that long.

I've also noticed that I score much better on shorter courses.  Put me over 6,300 yards and I have trouble breaking 80, but if I am at 6,000 yards I am usually shooting in the low 70's.  The shorter the course, the better I score.

[EthanSterlingPrice]

I understand how the math is done for handicaps based on tee boxes and course ratings.  What I'm not as familiar with is how players, particularly the low, single digit folks, choose which tees to play from.  It would seem that they could switch back and forth (not during a round mind you) to take advantage of a particular course layout where their length, left/right orientation, etc., favors them - even considering the loss of stroke(s) playing from the longer tees might afford?  The same would apply for higher handicap players though, generally being shorter length hitters, it wouldn't seem as beneficial.  Is this an option and a advantage in some cases?

It’s definitely possible but I typically play at a certain distance like fellas mentioned above. 6800-7000 is a good challenging distance but if I’m playing for fun I’ll go shorter. Teeing forward is a good way for anyone to have a good time and not get overly frustrated.



In the bag
Driver: Callaway Rogue Subzero 9.5 Stiff flex
3 wood: Callaway Rogue Subzero 15 degree
Hybrids: 17 degree titleist 816 h2
Irons: Ben Hogan Ptx 22-46 degree (4-pw)stiff flex standard lie
Wedges: Callaway Mac Daddy 4 50,54,58 degrees
Putter: Odyssey EXO seven

Gig’em Aggies!

[fixyurdivot]

9 hours ago, SteddyGolf said:

I do not switch between tees in the middle of a round.

Is switching between tees allowed when playing in a tournament?

[djahubes]

I’m plenty long to ply from anywhere but for me it’s about enjoyment. I’ll only play the tips on courses I know well and play often. New courses or ones I don’t frequent will play whites or blues. I don’t care where anyone decides to play, just keep pace.......good Segway into our quarterly pace of play free for all discussion!!


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[robertson153]

Is switching between tees allowed when playing in a tournament?

I have played tournaments on 9 hole courses were you switched. Front 9 on blue (middle tees), back on gold (tips). So essentially you’re playing different holes on the back.


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[DaveP043]

19 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

I ALWAYS want to play from the back tees- thats the course at it's true test.

 

I hate when I go to a new course and they tell me I MUST play from the forward tees! When it's costing me a lot of money for a round I want to experience the true course, even if it's very difficult. Wheres the challenge in playing a short easy course.

I do of course respect the other players and when we have a few high handicap short hitters in the group I'll happily play from the front tees as it makes the game fun for them. It's still a challenge and still fun.

Generally, I want to have the kind of experience a good professional would have playing the course.  Since I hit the ball much shorter than a good pro (maybe 240 yards carry with my driver), I need to play shorter tees to get that same experience, to hit similar clubs to the greens.  Must courses that I play, especially on holiday, have plenty of challenge beyond just length.  For me, anything beyond 6500 yards starts to become a struggle, unless the ground is really hard and the ball rolls a long way.  Interestingly, since you're in Scotland, I've found that visitors in Scotland are almost always directed to play specific tees, certainly American visitors are.  On exception was at Dunbar, where the pro suggested that we play certain tees, but did not require it.  He was also kind enough to talk to us for 10 minutes or so about some techniques for dealing with the heavy wind that day.

10 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Is switching between tees allowed when playing in a tournament?

In a tournament, you play whichever tees the Committee tells you to play.  In some cases, you may get a choice before you start, but changing tees in mid-round should result in a DQ.

[SteddyGolf]

Is switching between tees allowed when playing in a tournament?

No switching in tournament play is not allowed.


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[TR1PTIK]

I always look first at total yardage and will then look at rating and slope to help me figure out what tees to play from. Currently, the most challenging course that I play is 6,786 yards from the back tees (where I play) with a rating of 72.0 and a slope of 121. I don't play there often as it's a bit too pricey for me (Weekday Greens Fee = $66 w/ cart & $76 on Weekends), but it seems to be an almost perfect mix of length and difficulty for me.

[TR1PTIK]

On 1/26/2019 at 11:18 AM, GB13 said:

I usually look at total yardage, and how at how long the par 3's are. I like to play courses around 6500 total. I can play longer, but it becomes a lot more challenging. As for par 3's, I like to keep the longest par 3 at or below 220. I hate playing more than a 2 iron into a par 3. 

Good point about the Par 3's. I've studied the yardages of pretty much all the courses within an hour of me and Par 3's is where the bulk of length is added for different tees. You might see 20-30 yards added to some Par 4's and Par 5's, but some of the Par 3's might play 50 yards longer or even more. It's definitely something to be considered when factoring in enjoyment. No one likes coming up short on a Par 3 with a 3-wood when they're used to playing long or mid irons into Par 3's.

[chisag]

On 1/26/2019 at 11:58 AM, perseveringgolfer said:

I ALWAYS want to play from the back tees- thats the course at it's true test.

I hate when I go to a new course and they tell me I MUST play from the forward tees! When it's costing me a lot of money for a round I want to experience the true course, even if it's very difficult. Wheres the challenge in playing a short easy course.

 

... I would respectfully disagree that from the back tees "that's the course at it's true test". Almost every hole is designed to be played a specific way and playing the correct tees allows you to do just this, or at least do it as best you can. If a par 4 has water guarding the front of the green, it is meant to be played with a short or mid iron at the longest. No designer wants you hitting fairway woods that will barely clear the water if hit perfectly. By playing the back tees, some are putting themselves in this position. Many more examples of course, but golfers will have the most fun and their best challenge playing the tees that match their ability to hit the ball as long as the hole demands. It isn't really golf to hit driver then fairway wood or hybrid on every par 4. Nothing wrong with a difficult hole or two that demands a hybrid/fairway wood on a par 4 if you have the length to hit that shot successfully as often as not, but those holes usually have nothing guarding the front and allow for some run up.

... Of course in the end it is your money and your round of golf so you can play whichever tees you want, as long as you are keeping up with the group in front of you. But it is always more enjoyable to play the course they way it was designed to be played. I just played a course that is a perfect example. Aguila GC has a demanding finishing hole with water down the left side guarding the left side of the green. It plays 471 from the back tees! From the next tees it s 426 with an uphill tee shot and all the hole I can handle. The next tees are 403 and 376 so a very difficult hole from every tee, but fair and a real challenge from the right the box.  

[TR1PTIK]

13 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I would respectfully disagree that from the back tees "that's the course at it's true test". 

I'm with you on this. I think the true test is played from the green backward which is how we should all be trying to play anyway. The course architect will place obstacles around the green or will narrow the fairway knowing that this is where golfers should be trying to land the ball - having a reasonable idea of what club and trajectories we are trying to hit.

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I'm with you on this. I think the true test is played from the green backward which is how we should all be trying to play anyway. The course architect will place obstacles around the green or will narrow the fairway knowing that this is where golfers should be trying to land the ball - having a reasonable idea of what club and trajectories we are trying to hit.

For those who always want to play the back tees, I suggest they go play Ko'olau in Hawaii.  7310 yards, CR 78.2 slope 153.   Take a couple dozen balls, you'll need 'em.

[TR1PTIK]

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

For those who always want to play the back tees, I suggest they go play Ko'olau in Hawaii.  7310 yards, CR 78.2 slope 153.   Take a couple dozen balls, you'll need 'em.

OUCH!

[perseveringgolfer]

33 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I'm with you on this. I think the true test is played from the green backward which is how we should all be trying to play anyway. The course architect will place obstacles around the green or will narrow the fairway knowing that this is where golfers should be trying to land the ball - having a reasonable idea of what club and trajectories we are trying to hit.

I would suggest a good course architect will ensure this for every tee to ensure every tee has a good challenge.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said:

OUCH!

Yeah, and on most of those holes a missed fairway means a lost ball.  Not to mention, its on the rainy side of the island, so there's usually little or no roll, but a fair bit of wind.  Its damn hard from the normal tees.

[DaveP043]

57 minutes ago, perseveringgolfer said:

I would suggest a good course architect will ensure this for every tee to ensure every tee has a good challenge.

An example might be a small shallow green on a shorter par 4, say its only 22 yards deep, sloping slightly away from the player, with a bunker in front.  For a PGA pro, this might be only 420 yards.  So he blasts his drive only 280 (not a long hitter by PGA standards), has a 140 yard pitching wedge.  The architect has designed that small green to be appropriate for a wedge shot, lots of spin, can stop it on the green sloping away.  I go to that same tee, hit a good solid 250-yard tee shot, and I have 170 left, most likely a 5-iron.  I have pretty much zero chance of holding that same green, shallow, sloping away.  In essence, I've completely changed the architects intended level of challenge on that hole.  Its not the architects fault that I have no shot, its not a bad design, its my fault for playing inappropriate tees.   Now if I play it at 380 yards and hit a good drive, I have a pitching wedge or 9-iron, and I have the level of challenge that the architect intended. 

The architect cannot design the course to play with an appropriate level of difficulty for any player playing any set of tees.  He can design it to play similarly for every player who plays the appropriate set of tees for that player.

[Mr. 82]

17 hours ago, SteddyGolf said:

No switching in tournament play is not allowed.

It is if the tournament committee designates split tees for the tournament.  Depending on the tournament, you simply play whatever tees they tell you on the rules sheets, and with some clubs that use two sets of tees for seniors who haven't yet decided they wanted to play the forward tees on every hole, you have some holes at one tee box, and other holes at another tee box.  I've found this sort of thing at a few clubs here or there.

[DaveP043]

15 minutes ago, GSwag said:

It is if the tournament committee designates split tees for the tournament.  Depending on the tournament, you simply play whatever tees they tell you on the rules sheets, and with some clubs that use two sets of tees for seniors who haven't yet decided they wanted to play the forward tees on every hole, you have some holes at one tee box, and other holes at another tee box.  I've found this sort of thing at a few clubs here or there.

I think you two are basically saying the same tees, you play the set of tees you are told to play by the Committee.  That might mean different tees for seniors or higher-handicap players, or "hybrid" tees if available, but you are still assigned a specific set of tees before you start.  You don't have the option to decide on your own to play from a different spot.  

[StrokerAce]

I like to use the par3 lengths as a gauge.  If they are all 200+ from the set of tees I'm considering then I usually decide to move up.  I'm not good enough to play par 3's that are that long.

I've been close to breaking 80 multiple times and played a course from the tips and was in prime position to pull it off but ended up with an 80.  Breaking 80 from the tips would be the cherry on top!

[chisag]

... Yup, we are all different and finding the right tee's or tee combo's for our game is always a good idea. I don't mind long par 3's under 230 if there isn't water as much as long par 4's over 450 that I have trouble reaching in two shots in the wind or play uphill. I played with some guys last year that played the back tees on par 3/5's and the next tees up on the par 4's. I have found for some courses that works out really well. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

I go based off yardages. I like keeping it at 6700 at the max and depending on course/layout I’ll go down to 6100ish 

[Tap In]

This my be a little off from where the OP was going but, I am of the opinion that most high and mid handicappers would be better off moving forward until their game dictates moving back. (Consistently shooting in the mid 80s would be my personal measure.) I was paired up with a threesome that was a dad and his two twenty something sons. The more seasoned father played from the middle tees and consistently was on the green in regulation. The boys played from the tips and both scored around a 120 if you gave them 10 mulligans. They spent the entire round searching for lost balls. I understand being young and full of testosterone but the game is much more enjoyable when you play the course to your level. Moving forward and setting aside my pride was the best move I have made and I am starting to see drastic improvements in my play.


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[cksurfdude]

19 hours ago, Tap In said:

I am of the opinion that most high and mid handicappers would be better off moving forward until their game dictates moving back. (Consistently shooting in the mid 80s would be my personal measure.) 

Agreed! That's me, and that's where I'm at currently with my game, and that's my scoring goal, too. Thx