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Why iron shafts are not getting as much love as driver ones?


puttingpirate

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On 1/28/2019 at 10:44 AM, TR1PTIK said:

If any of you guys follow Golfholics on YouTube, you'll know that Mike recently went to Fujikura for an iron shaft fitting. In that video they talk about some of the stigma and misinformation that surrounds graphite iron shafts and I'd have to say that stigma and misinformation pretty much sums up the discrepancies between all iron shafts and driver shaft fittings. Look at Tiger as an example. How long has he played X100's? There's so much more out there to try and he's only just even adapted to adjustable drivers since switching to Taylormade.

I watched the iron shaft fitting, definitely peaked my interest in those Fujikura shafts. Based on the weight, they could be a contender against the Tour 90s I have in my clubs at the moment. Love the lighter shaft feel.

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
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Riding On: 
image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

 

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1 hour ago, edingc said:

I watched the iron shaft fitting, definitely peaked my interest in those Fujikura shafts. Based on the weight, they could be a contender against the Tour 90s I have in my clubs at the moment. Love the lighter shaft feel.

It definitely got me thinking as well. Aside from some of the weighting issues (that really only seem to apply to the hardest/fastest swingers), the only thing I see slowing graphite shafts down is cost. No way they will ever be able to match the combination of cost and performance available with steel shafts - not for a good while at least.

It was a relatively easy switch to make when graphite replaced steel in drivers and fairway woods because you're only talking about 3-4 clubs on average. Yeah, it's more expensive but the performance is THAT much better to make it an non-issue. I'm not sure they can say that with graphite iron shafts - as good as they are.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said:

It definitely got me thinking as well. Aside from some of the weighting issues (that really only seem to apply to the hardest/fastest swingers), the only thing I see slowing graphite shafts down is cost. No way they will ever be able to match the combination of cost and performance available with steel shafts - not for a good while at least.

It was a relatively easy switch to make when graphite replaced steel in drivers and fairway woods because you're only talking about 3-4 clubs on average. Yeah, it's more expensive but the performance is THAT much better to make it an non-issue. I'm not sure they can say that with graphite iron shafts - as good as they are.

The cost of graphit iron shafts as an upgrade isbt that much. Most offer the recoil for $25/club

they alreadt March or beat the performance of steel because the companies can do so much more with them than steel shafts and with all the technology and various materials that can be used. Graphite iron shafts today are completely different from the ones that originally came out.  

Graphite has replaced steel in the woods and hybrids and is starting to do it in the driving/utility irons. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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26 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The cost of graphit iron shafts as an upgrade isbt that much. Most offer the recoil for $25/club

they alreadt March or beat the performance of steel because the companies can do so much more with them than steel shafts and with all the technology and various materials that can be used. Graphite iron shafts today are completely different from the ones that originally came out.  

Graphite has replaced steel in the woods and hybrids and is starting to do it in the driving/utility irons. 

After I read your post, I hopped on GolfWorks and you're absolutely right. I didn't realize just how close they actually were in price. There are some brands/models that get a little more up there than others, but none I saw that would give me full blown sticker shock.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying in context. I have no doubt that graphite can match and even beat the performance of steel, but given my initial (uneducated) understanding of cost - I didn't think it would be an easy justification. Having done even just a minute amount of research, I can clearly see I was wrong on that front.

Sadly, until a more diverse offering of graphite iron shafts make their way into fitting carts, I think a lot of golfers will miss out on the opportunity to discover the benefits for themselves. Not every region is blessed with reputable independent fitters that are also well stocked. 

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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4 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

After I read your post, I hopped on GolfWorks and you're absolutely right. I didn't realize just how close they actually were in price. There are some brands/models that get a little more up there than others, but none I saw that would give me full blown sticker shock.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying in context. I have no doubt that graphite can match and even beat the performance of steel, but given my initial (uneducated) understanding of cost - I didn't think it would be an easy justification. Having done even just a minute amount of research, I can clearly see I was wrong on that front.

Sadly, until a more diverse offering of graphite iron shafts make their way into fitting carts, I think a lot of golfers will miss out on the opportunity to discover the benefits for themselves. Not every region is blessed with reputable independent fitters that are also well stocked. 

 

I would think there would be AT LEAST one fitter within 50 miles from any of us, no?

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3 hours ago, puttingpirate said:

 

I would think there would be AT LEAST one fitter within 50 miles from any of us, no?

Fitter, maybe. Reputable fitter, doubtful. Sure there's a fitting about 30 miles from me, but I would let him within 100 feet of my clubs. The closest REPUTABLE fitter is 90ish miles from me. 

 

Anyway, I play Steelfibers, and find the performance and technology to be far superior to steel. I get more consistent launch and spin from graphite than steel. Distance is maybe 3-5 yards longer because I can play a lighter graphite weight than steel. Steel I need 125+ while with Steelfibers, I only need 110-115. I think most players can benefit from graphite in some way, and also agree that the next innovation is in iron shafts, not driver shafts. 

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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I’m thinking iron shafts will all be graphite within 10 years or so. The cats been let out of the bag, and pricing will come down.

in my case, my last two sets have graphite. From Steelfiber 110’s Stiff, and now to recoil 760 smacwrap’s in regular flex. Oddly, I don’t seem to feel a difference until the club hits the turf, and I swear sometimes I can feel it bend a hair. And the smacwrap just eats up all the bad vibrations, yet you still know exactly where you hit the club face. The joints are very happy about this, and I can see the less harsh feelings as a strong selling point.

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

I’m thinking iron shafts will all be graphite within 10 years or so. The cats been let out of the bag, and pricing will come down.

I wouldn't be too hasty in thinking that. Regardless of the cost of manufacture for graphite becoming cheaper, steel still beats that price by a large margin. If you factor in the durability and easier assembly/prep processfor steel shafts too, I don't think they're going anywhere soon. Sure, graphite has it's adavantages but steel is still the king of iron shafts - and will probably remain so for a very long time.

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1 hour ago, jaskanski said:

I wouldn't be too hasty in thinking that. Regardless of the cost of manufacture for graphite becoming cheaper, steel still beats that price by a large margin. If you factor in the durability and easier assembly/prep processfor steel shafts too, I don't think they're going anywhere soon. Sure, graphite has it's adavantages but steel is still the king of iron shafts - and will probably remain so for a very long time.

The pricing will be comparable within few years. And with graphite already outperforming steel but being simply too expensive I would think that the king is dead, and long live the king.

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On 2/1/2019 at 1:08 AM, puttingpirate said:

The pricing will be comparable within few years. And with graphite already outperforming steel but being simply too expensive I would think that the king is dead, and long live the king.

Long live the king!

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 2:38 PM, TR1PTIK said:

Not to argue that it isn't the case for you, but I'm currently reading Every Shot Counts and just covered this. While Mark Broadie admits that there are always exceptions,  the long game (driving and approaches >100 yards) makes up two-thirds of the average golfer's score. I wish I had the book with me so I could reference and make sure I'm getting this right, but I'm pretty sure iron shots >100 yards make up the bulk of the scores with driving/tee shots coming in behind that; next is wedges and then the putter.

Yes and within that driving is the most important element - Why?  Because you cover more distance with driver than any other club - pros have figured that out - it's why you see so much bomb and gouge - hit it 310 off the tee and you are going to hit a lot of wedges - it's way easier to hit a wedge from the rough (especially when your swing speed is 117 with Driver) than it is to hit 6 iron from 186 to a pin hidden over the trap with cement like greens.

Absolutely approach shots are important, too - that's not what I was responding to - I was responding to the fact that of those approach shots only about half are with irons for me - the rest are with wedges or fairway/hybrid.

Mmmmmbuddy is quite long - we can see that his usage percentages are fairly similar to mine - I'm finding 30 iron shots in a round very difficult to imagine.  That certainly would not reflect most people's games.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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On 1/31/2019 at 5:36 PM, puttingpirate said:

 

I would think there would be AT LEAST one fitter within 50 miles from any of us, no?

Technically he's a little over 60 miles. A couple of the pro shops here have a fitting cart or two, but they're almost always going to be loaded with stock shafts from whichever OEM is supplying the cart.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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Not sure I understand the iron shaft LOVE comment. Is it that you don't hear about many new iron shafts of read about them as much. If it is you don't hear about new shafts you can look at iron shaft like this. 

You can take 1 iron shaft  tip and butt trim it into many different shot shapes (high, mid, low) and feel. That's where someone that knows shaft EL as well as, been there tried that comes in....AKA good fitter

If its about iron shafts making the news, well cant help there.

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  • 2 weeks later...

FYI... I received a Club Champion newsletter with a post about TT's "Catalyst" graphite shaft with iso-6 material technology...

--

According to True Temper, Catalyst is the next step in graphite iron design. Featuring Iso-6 material technology, Catalyst is engineered to replicate steel alloy properties, which is a more than 100% improvement over traditional graphite laminates. This allows for an extremely stable shaft that maximizes constancy and distance control while providing the benefits of a graphite body design.
 
Catalyst also features a reinforced tip section which, unlike traditional graphite, delivers torsional resistance comparable to that of steel. In addition, the tip section improves stability during turf interaction for better impact on off-center contact or mis-hits. Through advanced material modeling and analysis, True Temper has created a graphite iron-shaft technology that bridges the gap between what a steel shaft is and what a graphite shaft can be. Iso-6 is a new material technology created by analyzing where existing graphite iron shafts lacked the symmetry of steel, then constructing a new laminate design to eliminate those weak points.
 
According to the company, traditional graphite laminates are only 35% as symmetric as steel. This produces considerable fluctuations in shaft deformation which can cause wider variations in carry distances. With Iso-6 being 75% as symmetric as steel, (over 100% better than traditional graphite laminates), graphite iron shafts made with Iso-6 can provide more consistent carry distances and tighter shot dispersions.

--

https://clubchampiongolf.com/newsletters/true-temper-catalyst-graphite-iron-shafts

 

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

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