Sub70 golf

[Sluggo42 7,632]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:14 PM, Berg Ryman said:

Sub70 Wedge users in the thread, I'm looking for thoughts. Hear my cry!

What do you want to know Bergman?

[Berg Ryman 5,429]

52 minutes ago, Sluggo42 said:

What do you want to know Bergman?

I'm looking for your impressions of the wedge against others in the market. I was surprised to see it top spin for the MGS Wedge test so thoughts on that along with just general performance.

Honestly, from where I'm looking at 90 bucks for what I'd get it for, it looks like a no brainer, but I wanna confirm my suspicion. 

[Sluggo42 7,632]

I think for the price, they far surpass what one would expect. They spin well, even after 150 or so rounds. You might need to bend em a little to get to your desired distances, but once you get em dialed in, they’re money. I just got some equalizer wedges, but I’ve only got 2 rounds on those so I can’t give you a comp. I came from Vokeys, and after a few games of adjustment-never looked back. Least fav is the 50°, as I really only used it for 100 yds period. Love the 58°. It seemed to be a perfect club, from lobs, to low spinners, even short sand shots. It’s actually still in the bag, can’t seem to let it out of my grip. It’s got a bit of magic in it...

[Berg Ryman 5,429]

8 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

I think for the price, they far surpass what one would expect. They spin well, even after 150 or so rounds. You might need to bend em a little to get to your desired distances, but once you get em dialed in, they’re money. I just got some equalizer wedges, but I’ve only got 2 rounds on those so I can’t give you a comp. I came from Vokeys, and after a few games of adjustment-never looked back. Least fav is the 50°, as I really only used it for 100 yds period. Love the 58°. It seemed to be a perfect club, from lobs, to low spinners, even short sand shots. It’s actually still in the bag, can’t seem to let it out of my grip. It’s got a bit of magic in it...

good to know. I'm looking at them in higher lofts, namely 56* as I'm thinking that'll be my last wedge in the bag pairing with a more forgiving 50* like a CBX or something. what finish did you opt for?

[cnosil 24,439]

I'm looking for your impressions of the wedge against others in the market. I was surprised to see it top spin for the MGS Wedge test so thoughts on that along with just general performance.

Honestly, from where I'm looking at 90 bucks for what I'd get it for, it looks like a no brainer, but I wanna confirm my suspicion. 

I don’t have a lot of outside use with the wedge. But since short game is my nemesis I pick up a wedge whenever I am at MGS headquarters and hit on the launch monitor to work on distances. The past few weeks I have been using a 56* black sub70 wedge. I believe the club I have been using has an R flex KBS Tour shaft. I like KBS shafts which is part of the reason I picked it up to play with.

 

Impressions - it has good feel, maybe a bit clicky sounding compared to some other wedges but nothing bad. Spin is good. Black finish seems to be holding up well especially after hitting on artificial turf. My only potential drawback would be the lack of bounce and grind options. Bounce can be adjusted by bending higher or lower lofted clubs. Grinds may or may not be an issue, when I do the wedge fittings on sites like Vokey and Callaway it puts me into the basic “standard” grind since I use them for full shafts and around the green. I like the variety of shaft options that are offered. The only debate going on in my head would be cost. Yes $89 is a great price but are you better off buying last years Cleveland or vokey at $99 or $109 or cheaper if you can find a discount code and getting a bit more control over bounce and grind? If shaft is more important you are probably better off with Sub70 since you probably can’t get last years mainstream models with custom shafts. Also since a single wedge doesn’t exceed the free shipping amount you bring the prices a bit closer.

 

I am having the same debate as you on buying a wedge. I only want a 54*. Probably not going to spend $150 on a new wedge, kind of want to go to a fitting event to try different grinds, different shafts, and ask questions. Based on feedback on Here and playing with the one at MGS the sub70 is high on the list.

 

Hope that helps...or prompts others to provide their thoughts.

[Berg Ryman 5,429]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I don’t have a lot of outside use with the wedge. But since short game is my nemesis I pick up a wedge whenever I am at MGS headquarters and hit on the launch monitor to work on distances. The past few weeks I have been using a 56* black sub70 wedge. I believe the club I have been using has an R flex KBS Tour shaft. I like KBS shafts which is part of the reason I picked it up to play with.

Impressions - it has good feel, maybe a bit clicky sounding compared to some other wedges but nothing bad. Spin is good. Black finish seems to be holding up well especially after hitting on artificial turf. My only potential drawback would be the lack of bounce and grind options. Bounce can be adjusted by bending higher or lower lofted clubs. Grinds may or may not be an issue, when I do the wedge fittings on sites like Vokey and Callaway it puts me into the basic “standard” grind since I use them for full shafts and around the green. I like the variety of shaft options that are offered. The only debate going on in my head would be cost. Yes $89 is a great price but are you better off buying last years Cleveland or vokey at $99 or $109 or cheaper if you can find a discount code and getting a bit more control over bounce and grind? If shaft is more important you are probably better off with Sub70 since you probably can’t get last years mainstream models with custom shafts. Also since a single wedge doesn’t exceed the free shipping amount you bring the prices a bit closer.

I am having the same debate as you on buying a wedge. I only want a 54*. Probably not going to spend $150 on a new wedge, kind of want to go to a fitting event to try different grinds and ask questions. Based on feedback on Here and playing with the one at MGS the sub70 is high on the list.

Hope that helps...or prompts others to provide their thoughts.

Definitely helpful @cnosil

As someone who's never done a wedge fitting but know how I've worked through my swing to make wedges work, the bounce and grind for me being in a "neutral" turf area like the northeast isn't an issue. My current 56 degree is 10* bounce, and before that I was in the Wilson FG Tour with 14 degrees bounce, no special grind. While I am a bit steep and may benefit from a wider grind, I'm so used to the standard SW grind that admittedly I don't think going with those extra options would excite me enough to pass up price personally. Also, the 56 is 12* of bounce, which I think is right in my sweet spot for performance. Lastly, I do it find it important to potentially get a good shaft match to the new iron set I'm looking at, so having those options from Sub 70 may tip me in that direction.

I hope you find the 54 that's going to match you up with the rest of your set!

[Sluggo42 7,632]

Raw baby, and they look fantastic 

[GolfSub70 487]

On 3/5/2020 at 9:24 AM, kiteman112000 said:

I'm waiting on the 699 Pros as the offset of the 699 is just too much to me. They have listed this item as coming Jan, then Feb, and now Mar. Just wondering how confident Sub 70 is that these will even come this month or any time soon? Not doubting they are coming at some point, just curious.

Also, with the black coating, does any manufacturer currently make black steel shafts? That would look pretty sweet, black on black.

Thanks for the message.  We did have a shipment come in 2-3 weeks ago but that batch was sold out before they even hit the website.  Our next shipment should be here in 3 weeks or so.  Obviously the coronavirus stuff hasn't helped us any on the shipment delays.  It sounds like these should be in the building before the end of the month though.  Thanks for the interest and if you have any questions just let us know. 

[JAGolfore 2,746]

Was able to get out a couple of times this weekend for some early March golf in Illinois. Man is it nice to be back outside






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[Jtom2012 113]

Love Sub70. Just put my order in today for a pro 5 wood. Can't wait for it!

[cnosil 24,439]

I'm waiting on the 699 Pros as the offset of the 699 is just too much to me. They have listed this item as coming Jan, then Feb, and now Mar. Just wondering how confident Sub 70 is that these will even come this month or any time soon? Not doubting they are coming at some point, just curious.
Also, with the black coating, does any manufacturer currently make black steel shafts? That would look pretty sweet, black on black.

Just thought I would let you know they are coming. Was able to hit one yesterday while I was at MGS headquarters. Only problem is I tried the one Harry was using....KBS Tour X flex is a bit stiff for me. I will say the look nice!

[halliedog 36]

I'm still interested in this company, and will probably do a demo later in the spring, but when I go on the website and build a set of 4-GW, the savings just aren't there.  

1. They have have a very limited number of available "upgrade" shafts, and they all cost a premium.  Heck, even anything other than a GP Tour Velvet STD grip is an up-charge.

2. I can actually buy NOS of last year's top of the line clubs, pull and sell the shafts, put my own in, sell the grips and put my own on, and actually about break even compared to Sub70.

I'm not knocking the whole DTC concept.  For the average consumer it probably works out to a good savings, if they do a proper online fitting.  On the other hand, for someone who is a bit more knowledgeable and knows what shafts/ferules/grips they want, and has the ability to build their own sticks, there MIGHT be better options?  If it was "heads only" for a steep discount, I'd probably be all over it, they look beautiful.  I understand why they have the business model they do and agree with it, but may just not be my cup of tea.

@Sluggo42 Love the milling on those wedges, wish they offered something similar on their iron sets.

@GolfSub70 It's great to see a club manufacturer so active in a forum, and I'm not trying to dissuade others from checking you out.  I myself will likely demo some of your clubs once you put together a black CB/MB setup, or those Protos you've discussed, but I just don't see the savings for myself.  Wish you all the luck, and welcome your response. 

[RickyBobby_PR 9,260]

7 hours ago, halliedog said:

I'm still interested in this company, and will probably do a demo later in the spring, but when I go on the website and build a set of 4-GW, the savings just aren't there.  

1. They have have a very limited number of available "upgrade" shafts, and they all cost a premium.  Heck, even anything other than a GP Tour Velvet STD grip is an up-charge.

2. I can actually buy NOS of last year's top of the line clubs, pull and sell the shafts, put my own in, sell the grips and put my own on, and actually about break even compared to Sub70.

I'm not knocking the whole DTC concept.  For the average consumer it probably works out to a good savings, if they do a proper online fitting.  On the other hand, for someone who is a bit more knowledgeable and knows what shafts/ferules/grips they want, and has the ability to build their own sticks, there MIGHT be better options?  If it was "heads only" for a steep discount, I'd probably be all over it, they look beautiful.  I understand why they have the business model they do and agree with it, but may just not be my cup of tea.

@Sluggo42 Love the milling on those wedges, wish they offered something similar on their iron sets.

@GolfSub70 It's great to see a club manufacturer so active in a forum, and I'm not trying to dissuade others from checking you out.  I myself will likely demo some of your clubs once you put together a black CB/MB setup, or those Protos you've discussed, but I just don't see the savings for myself.  Wish you all the luck, and welcome your response. 

Curious why you say savings aren’t there? A month or so ago I went thru their site and had a set of the cb 4-p with Nippon modus 120 and the ndmc grips for under $800. I’m not sure of any new cb on the market that can be had with that shaft for that price.

[PMookie 17,027]

I'm still interested in this company, and will probably do a demo later in the spring, but when I go on the website and build a set of 4-GW, the savings just aren't there.  
1. They have have a very limited number of available "upgrade" shafts, and they all cost a premium.  Heck, even anything other than a GP Tour Velvet STD grip is an up-charge.
2. I can actually buy NOS of last year's top of the line clubs, pull and sell the shafts, put my own in, sell the grips and put my own on, and actually about break even compared to Sub70.
I'm not knocking the whole DTC concept.  For the average consumer it probably works out to a good savings, if they do a proper online fitting.  On the other hand, for someone who is a bit more knowledgeable and knows what shafts/ferules/grips they want, and has the ability to build their own sticks, there MIGHT be better options?  If it was "heads only" for a steep discount, I'd probably be all over it, they look beautiful.  I understand why they have the business model they do and agree with it, but may just not be my cup of tea.
[mention=24616]Sluggo42[/mention] Love the milling on those wedges, wish they offered something similar on their iron sets.
[mention=76062]GolfSub70[/mention] It's great to see a club manufacturer so active in a forum, and I'm not trying to dissuade others from checking you out.  I myself will likely demo some of your clubs once you put together a black CB/MB setup, or those Protos you've discussed, but I just don't see the savings for myself.  Wish you all the luck, and welcome your response. 

All that work and effort in point #2 to break even................
Hmmm.


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[GolfSub70 487]

20 hours ago, halliedog said:

I'm still interested in this company, and will probably do a demo later in the spring, but when I go on the website and build a set of 4-GW, the savings just aren't there.  

1. They have have a very limited number of available "upgrade" shafts, and they all cost a premium.  Heck, even anything other than a GP Tour Velvet STD grip is an up-charge.

2. I can actually buy NOS of last year's top of the line clubs, pull and sell the shafts, put my own in, sell the grips and put my own on, and actually about break even compared to Sub70.

I'm not knocking the whole DTC concept.  For the average consumer it probably works out to a good savings, if they do a proper online fitting.  On the other hand, for someone who is a bit more knowledgeable and knows what shafts/ferules/grips they want, and has the ability to build their own sticks, there MIGHT be better options?  If it was "heads only" for a steep discount, I'd probably be all over it, they look beautiful.  I understand why they have the business model they do and agree with it, but may just not be my cup of tea.

@Sluggo42 Love the milling on those wedges, wish they offered something similar on their iron sets.

@GolfSub70 It's great to see a club manufacturer so active in a forum, and I'm not trying to dissuade others from checking you out.  I myself will likely demo some of your clubs once you put together a black CB/MB setup, or those Protos you've discussed, but I just don't see the savings for myself.  Wish you all the luck, and welcome your response. 

Thanks for the message and thoughts.  While consumer pricing is a big part of the DTC business model we certainly think there is a lot more to it then just the cost savings.  You get new clubs, custom built and with what we think is better customer service then you're going to get anywhere else.  We embrace our customers and want them to be part of what we're doing.  There is SO much good golf equipment out there and we respect what everyone else does...but we're definitely going to be more transparent, accessible and hopefully fun to work with.

I'm not sure on the relevance of cost when it involves pulling shafts and installing your own...then pulling grips and installing your own...then dealing with selling the pulls just to try and recoup some of the cost.  And while that is absolutely possible, you're probably in the 0.5% of golfers that would consider that.  I wouldn't blame you for doing it but most golfers don't have the ability to do that or aren't going to spend the time/effort doing it.  I think you'll find some real cost savings if you line up other manufacturers products and create an apples to apples comparison.  I know I put together the attached file for our 739 irons early last year.  The data is from MGS Most Wanted testing.  There may be some shaft/grip considerations in there but nothing that would change the drastic cost savings.  By the way, we have had customers send us their existing shafts/grips and then we just charge them for the heads and labor cost for the assembly...that could be an option if you want to secure shafts and grips on your own.

On the grips...you can choose from the GP Tour Velvet 360, Lamkin Crossline or GP 2G grips for no upcharge.  Those grips are perfectly fine for the large majority of guys and they do have a few options.  The other grips typically have $4-$5 upcharges just based on what the manufacturer charges us.  The Tour Velvet 360 is the stock grip for basically every other manufacturer and they generally have upgrade costs for any higher quality/specialized grip (New Decades, Aligns, MCC +4s, etc.)

Thanks again.  If anyone ever has any questions always feel free to message me!

[halliedog 36]

@GolfSub70

Thanks for pointing out the option of sending my own shafts/grips and only paying for the heads and build.  That might be an option, although I really do enjoy building my own clubs, and you didn't mention the cost of the build.  I'm not necessarily looking to "break even" or anything, but why not sell off a set of shafts that I'll never, use when I already have something better "for my game" on hand ready to install?  Not only is it somewhat therapeutic for me, but I know they are done exactly how I want them, everything including doweling, pro-soft inserts, grips built up exactly how I like, etc...

In the chart above, you list the 739s @ $439 for 4-W, yet when I go on your site and select 739 RH, 4-W, with absolutely no upgrades to shaft or grip, it shows $441?  Yeah, its only a $2 difference, but not exactly correct?  Makes me have second thoughts about what else in your impressive little chart may not be exactly correct?  Plus, how are those numbers gathered?  Is it from people hitting all those clubs, or a robot hitting all those clubs?  I don't place any value on random people when it comes to clubs or balls because it's all so subjective.  Bags, push carts, sure, I'll read people's opinions and go on durability, features, ease of use, etc...

Also, you forget to mention in the little blurb at the bottom of your chart that most OEMs are offering many of your upgrade shafts as a no up-charge stock shaft or smaller up-charge.  That's one place, along with grips, where you just can't beat them on price point, just because of the sheer volume they deal on compared to you.  Not a knock on you, just a fact of life, and I don't think you can deny that? 

And I never said the OEMs CURRENT offerings will come anywhere close to you on price.  The money they are spending on Marketing/RD has to be paid somehow?  If you re-read you'll see I said NOS (New Old Stock), and even you have to admit that blade/players cavity back designs haven't changed dramatically in the last few years?  Don't you say in the Business Model - Product Release part of your website that "Most of those product releases also come with radical, empty promises of increased distance and forgiveness"?  So you're saying that your company hasn't re-invented the wheel when it comes to iron design, and if I'm patient and diligent, I can get one of the OEM sets from last year's cycle brand new at huge discount, likely with a shaft of my choice (or at least one that would hold higher resale value if not my choice) at little to no up-charge, that will be at least COMPARABLE in price to your's? 

Thanks again for being on here and explaining all your different available options to the end consumer, and offering a different option for an equal quality product to the over-priced CURRENT models that OEMs feel the pressure to push out every 6 months to a year.  It really does seem you are a Customer First business, which is rare these days and quite refreshing!  I'll be keeping an eye on you guys, and if I decide to make a move this summer, you'll definitely be on my short-list of options to consider (especially if I could get my hands on a Proto set of those 639-Gs  )! 

GIRs and Birdies my friend!

[halliedog 36]

On 3/12/2020 at 7:53 AM, PMookie said:

All that work and effort in point #2 to break even................
Hmmm.


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They don't have the shafts I want listed on the drop-down menu of their website, so why not go with the stock option, pull, install my own, and try to sell of the outcasts?  

Hmmmm..........................

Edited March 14, 2020 by halliedog

[halliedog 36]

On 3/12/2020 at 5:23 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Curious why you say savings aren’t there? A month or so ago I went thru their site and had a set of the cb 4-p with Nippon modus 120 and the ndmc grips for under $800. I’m not sure of any new cb on the market that can be had with that shaft for that price.

Re-read the post you quoted.  I never said I could walk into GG or PGASS and pick up a NEW set of CURRENT model Taylormades or Titleists for the same price, but I can go on several websites and buy NOS (New Old Stock, there, I spelled it out for you) irons for a COMPARABLE price, likely with a no up-charge shaft, for CLOSE to the same price.  And they admit right on their website that there is really no significant change in improvement from cycle to cycle from all the big OEMs.

Reading is fundamental, my friend!

Jesus, It's like I'm playing cards with my brother's kids around here!

[Sluggo42 7,632]

Halliedog! Throwing down the reading fundamentals Smack, while playing cards with your brothers kids smack talk! in only your 30th post! Niiiice! 

[RickyBobby_PR 9,260]

On 3/11/2020 at 10:02 PM, halliedog said:

I'm not knocking the whole DTC concept.  For the average consumer it probably works out to a good savings, if they do a proper online fitting. 

This right here is what I was referencing. If I can buy new from sub70 for under $800 with shafts that I want it’s all better option than buying a previous release with shafts someone donesmt want or like and have to go thru the hassle, time  and cost of buying shafts, grips, etc and doing the work or paying someone to do it. To many time is money.

And you might want to do some re-reading of you own on the post you quoted from sub70 as they tell you the data is from the MGS most wanted and then since you are a member here might want to get familiar with what that is and what’s involved since it does get referenced regularly in threads. 
 

But you seem more interested in bashing a brand and their business model.