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Draw vs Fade


LeftyHawk

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I've been told that a draw will have a better roll out than a fade. With this crap for weather here in Michigan I've been doing some thinking on the draw vs Fade.

If my thinking is right it has to do with spin. The ball needs to have a particular spin to move right to left and vice versa.

So for a right handed person a draw moves right to left, how is that ball spin different if me as a lefty hits a fade, will that not have the same roll out as a right hitting a draw?

What am I missing?

Chris

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"Provided the ball speed, launch angle and spin rate are the same, a draw and fade will carry and roll the same distance. However, from a practical perspective, most club golfers will hit a draw further than a fade, because when they hit a draw they reduce the loft, leading to lower spin rates. Most of the time, shots with lower spin travel further."

"Because balls that go from left-to-right tend to have a higher spin rate, they come down at a steeper angle, meaning the ball will bounce and roll less."

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Well, that makes sense, thanks.... I just couldn't figure why it would make a difference. 

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I agree that @TSauer is right , essentially a ball that lands at a "flatter" angle will roll more than one that comes down steeper.  But in real life, most of us hit our "standard" shape further and more consistently that we do with the "other" shape.  Soggy fairways aren't a good enough reason for me to try to use a shape I can't depend on just to gain a few yards of roll.

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Draws are hit with an inside out face to path (and face closed to path) and normally with a more upwards angle of attack.

Fades are hit with an outside in club path (and face open to path) and normally a more downwards angle of attack.

Therefore, draws usually mean less relative spinloft than a fade, and therefore a draw will have less spin and more roll. 

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31 minutes ago, Shankster said:

 


Right. But I’m talking like JB Holmes type swing. Fade swing with a closed face.

Could you present the same loft as a draw(Er) of the ball would? Just be the path that changed?

I hate math.

 

So you are talking about a path that is left of the target, but a face that is closed to the target but open to the path?  If the path is outside in and the face is close to the path, then it will be a pull draw.  There is no way to hit a fade with a club face that is closed to the path.  

 

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Just now, Shankster said:

I’m saying C on this diagram. Is that a closed face to path? Not trying to argue, just figure this out.

IMG_4870.JPG

Nope - club face is open to path (and closed to target) in C.  Notice hoe the black line (face angle) sits in between target line and club path.

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Fades will run out but no controlled than a draw. A draw can turn into a hook or pull and the end result will be worse than a push or slice.

 

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you can talk to fade but a hook won't listen

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A hook is what I use to catch fish with.

A fade is what is happening to my distance the older I get.

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Fades and cuts listen better than a draw or hook when they’re finding their landing spot.


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Wow we’ve wandered far afield.

None of us is a touring pro so let’s take that off the table and get back to the fact that generally speaking a draw will go farther than a fade and a controlled draw is the preferred ball flight for most amateur golfers.

Touring pros generally start out as people who draw the ball and then learn how to hit fades.

If in doubt Dave P’s advice is best to follow - just play the shot you’re comfortable with.


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7 minutes ago, revkev said:

Wow we’ve wandered far afield.

None of us is a touring pro so let’s take that off the table and get back to the fact that generally speaking a draw will go farther than a fade and a controlled draw is the preferred ball flight for most amateur golfers.

Touring pros generally start out as people who draw the ball and then learn how to hit fades.

If in doubt Dave P’s advice is best to follow - just play the shot you’re comfortable with.


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This is the problem though. Most amateurs and to an extent pros can’t control the draw. Pros will be more consistent at playing the draw and not losing it left. For amateurs the draw really becomes more of a hook and the pull comes into play more when trying to play the draw. It also brings the two way miss more into play as well

I agree one should play what they are comfortable with but imo and after talking with a few instructors the reliability and consistency for many amateurs would come from playing a fade.

with the design of clubs and balls today to go a lot straighter it’s not as easy to play move the ball from side to side. Imo most amateurs should decide on what side of the course they want to eliminate and play a shot/develop a swing that does that.

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

This is the problem though. Most amateurs and to an extent pros can’t control the draw. Pros will be more consistent at playing the draw and not losing it left. For amateurs the draw really becomes more of a hook and the pull comes into play more when trying to play the draw. It also brings the two way miss more into play as well

I agree one should play what they are comfortable with but imo and after talking with a few instructors the reliability and consistency for many amateurs would come from playing a fade.

with the design of clubs and balls today to go a lot straighter it’s not as easy to play move the ball from side to side. Imo most amateurs should decide on what side of the course they want to eliminate and play a shot/develop a swing that does that.

In my experience, many more amateurs have a problem with a big slice than with a big draw.  Its when any of us try to go against our tendency that the two-way miss comes in.  I'm not sure I'd agree that ams are better hitting a fade, I think most ams would be best if they were to tame the big curve and make it a small curve.

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16 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

In my experience, many more amateurs have a problem with a big slice than with a big draw.  Its when any of us try to go against our tendency that the two-way miss comes in.  I'm not sure I'd agree that ams are better hitting a fade, I think most ams would be best if they were to tame the big curve and make it a small curve.

Yes the tendency from ams is the slice compared to a hook. Also agree that going against tendency will be a big reason for two way miss because of timing/sequencing and getting club face and path to match up.

its a lot easier to reach an am to reduce the slice to a fade. Granted getting them to try and hook/draw the ball in a lesson will go along way to reducing the curve, learning to play a small fade Imo it also gives them more consistency. If playing a fade it will move slightly to the right and be in play. If they push it the ball it will die out towards the end of the flight and ends up in the rough but in play. The slice still stays in play and will be better off than the pull.

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