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Kuchar is embarrassingly cheap


bens197

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So I've kind of updated my thoughts on this.   

While I still think Kuchar didn't do anything wrong initially, he struck an agreement and the caddie gladly accepted it, and Kuchar paid a bonus at the end after the win, granted a bonus that many find horribly insufficient.   That may be, but let's not forget the caddie agreed and didn't say anything for MONTHS, so who are we to judge?

All that said, once this became public and Steinberg advised Kuchar of the backlash, he probably should have just said publicly. "You know we had an agreement for the week that covered everything but a win.  I gave a bit more than amount agreed upon for a top 20, and didn't think anymore of it.   But now in hindsight, I realize I probably should have taken a bit more time to evaluate the situation, and offered him more.  As a result, I've now sent a check for $50,000 to El Tucan  in addition to the previous $4,000.  Once again I had a great week with El Tucan, and I'm sorry that this has become a sour note to a great week for both of us"    Or something to that effect.  

While I hate the idea of giving in to extortion or the public firestorm, it's probably the best option out for Kuchar.   

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Also in a purely it didn't happen so it doesn't matter statement, if Kuchar had just finished two places lower, 3rd place, he would have "only" made $469,000 for the week and this never would have been a story.   It's only because he won, and the amount of 1 Million dollars makes for a sensational story. 

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...such a sad sad story.... I still remember when I first saw Kuchar as a rookie in the 98 Masters.  He was as happy as I have ever seen a golfer playing.  Hopefully this is just a blip on the radar for him; he seems like a nice guy...especially considering how he handled the British open in 2017...win with class/lose with class....but maybe it's not real?  Sure hope not.

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3 minutes ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

...such a sad sad story.... I still remember when I first saw Kuchar as a rookie in the 98 Masters.  He was as happy as I have ever seen a golfer playing.  Hopefully this is just a blip on the radar for him; he seems like a nice guy...especially considering how he handled the British open in 2017...win with class/lose with class....but maybe it's not real?  Sure hope not.

Although he did get a bit of flack for his dads over exuberance during the round that year in the Master's but still it was hard to blame him.  

I spoke to someone last night who knows Kuchar very well and likes him A LOT and says he is a very good guy.   But he also says he handled it wrong, possibly from the beginning but most certainly once it became "a thing"   My thoughts above kind are very similar to his thoughts. 

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I can’t remember which article I read it but Kuchar offered something along the lines of $3000 if he makes the cut and an extra $1000 ($4000 total) if he makes the top 10.

Seeing as Kuchar hadn’t won in 4 years, El Tucan surely agreed to the arrangement, figuring Kuchar wasn’t gonna win so no need to worry about how much he should get of the $1.3M first place check.


And for those that don’t think El Tucan should get as much as a regular Tour caddie, do you think that his insight to the course at least helped Kuchar gain maybe one or two shots over the round? Well he won by one shot which meant a first place check of $1.3M compared to the $777,000 2nd place.

Over half a million dollars difference, and he threw El Tucan an extra $1000.

I worked in the casino industry for 10 years and got bigger tips than that.


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20 hours ago, revkev said:

Regardless of what’s true this is why I root my emotions and don’t care about what I think I know about people whom I don’t know.

Couldn't have summed up my opinion any better.  Time for this story to die on the vine.

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53 minutes ago, deejaid said:

I can’t remember which article I read it but Kuchar offered something along the lines of $3000 if he makes the cut and an extra $1000 ($4000 total) if he makes the top 10.

Seeing as Kuchar hadn’t won in 4 years, El Tucan surely agreed to the arrangement, figuring Kuchar wasn’t gonna win so no need to worry about how much he should get of the $1.3M first place check.


And for those that don’t think El Tucan should get as much as a regular Tour caddie, do you think that his insight to the course at least helped Kuchar gain maybe one or two shots over the round? Well he won by one shot which meant a first place check of $1.3M compared to the $777,000 2nd place.

Over half a million dollars difference, and he threw El Tucan an extra $1000. emoji848.png

I worked in the casino industry for 10 years and got bigger tips than that.


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Considering both parties speak little to nothing of the opposite languages from each other I would lean towards no.  Just because he has course knowledge doesn’t mean he is a good or helpful caddie. He got fired by another player the day before he started with kuch.

A tour caddie even if it was not kuch’s regular guy could save that 1-2 strokes as well. With having time to walk the course, get distances and knowing where kuch’s misses would go and such would imo be just as valuable. 

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23 hours ago, Mr_Theoo said:

I agree, kucher might have been better off not commenting on it

This reminds me of the time when Hootie Johnson went to the media when Martha Burke started making noise about Augusta National not having a woman member, and how she was going to protest the club, and make a lot of noise.

Think about it, if Hootie never said anything, including his now famous, "at the point of a bayonet" comment, do you think we would even know who Martha Burke is?

Frankly, I think Hootie broke the unspoken code of Augusta National that Clifford Roberts used to employ to run Augusta National.  When in doubt, ignore all criticism, and stay silent on everything outside the confines of this club.

A)  I think Kuchar is smart for not being on social media in the first place.  Nothing good comes out of Facebook/Twitter/Instagram

B)  I think what Tom Gillis did by posting this thing on twitter in the first place is disgraceful.  Not that I am anybody, but if I knew Tom Gillis, and know he did this sort of twitter thing with the sole intention of embarrassing a fellow peer I would not only blacklist Tom Gillis, but I would never speak to him again, and completely cut anyone off who associated with Tom Gillis.

C)  Michael Bamberger is a giant POS in general.  He's the same journalist that called a penalty on Michelle Wie the next day, with the sole intention of having her DQ'd from a golf tournament.  The penalty they ended up calling on her was a microscopic infraction of a bad drop that was centimeters closer to the hole that could only be determined by slow-mo video review.  But you are going to wait till after she's already signed her scorecard, and she has no recourse to correct this for the tournament, and as such it's a guaranteed DQ off of an infraction that was so unintentional to be bordering on absurd?  My point being that Kuchar has nothing to gain by speaking to Bamberger.  Bamberger wants nothing more than to sensationalize a story and to make mountains out of mohills.  And frankly, if I was a golf professional and Bamberger was in my path, I'd intentionally go out of my way to let everyone know what a POS he is, and to never speak to him about anything ever.

Bottom line, like they say in the movie theatre, "silence is golden," and the less you say, the better off you are.

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2 hours ago, sixcat said:

Interesting take by Porath.  I'm a big fan of the Shotgun Start podcast.  Don't think I have missed an episode.  To be honest, I can't disagree with him here either!

That's a hell of a generic judgment of others by someone who I have no idea who it is.  But if you agree with his statement, that's pretty obtuse and letting emotions cloud your own judgment.

And I can only speak for myself here, but this is neither anger or saying there is a right or wrong in this (well, other than what I just posted above).  I just think people taking shots at Kuchar for this based on gossip on the internet and whatever miscellaneous 3rd generation facts they are reading or hearing about is incredibly myopic and cruel.

And who the hell gives a crap who Brendan Porath is, let alone what his opinion is.  I could call him a judgmental holier than thou prick based on nothing more than this tweet, but that would be defeating the point of this post.

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Without judging anyone or anything said previously, I think it's really interesting how emotional this conversation is for people who are strictly observers of the situation.  Not just on this forum, but in all of what I've read in other places as well.  I've been trying to sort through and figure out what has brought on all the emotion, but I can't really pin it down.

Anyone else get this type of sense about this?

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That's a hell of a generic judgment of others by someone who I have no idea who it is.  But if you agree with his statement, that's pretty obtuse and letting emotions cloud your own judgment.
And I can only speak for myself here, but this is neither anger or saying there is a right or wrong in this (well, other than what I just posted above).  I just think people taking shots at Kuchar for this based on gossip on the internet and whatever miscellaneous 3rd generation facts they are reading or hearing about is incredibly myopic and cruel.
And who the hell gives a crap who Brendan Porath is, let alone what his opinion is.  I could call him a judgmental holier than thou prick based on nothing more than this tweet, but that would be defeating the point of this post.

I’ve been called a lot worse than obtuse. As Kuchar said in his press release, “ I’m certainly not losing sleep over it!”

For that matter, I’m not losing sleep over message board opinions of me either!


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1 hour ago, 00sportsman said:

Without judging anyone or anything said previously, I think it's really interesting how emotional this conversation is for people who are strictly observers of the situation.  Not just on this forum, but in all of what I've read in other places as well.  I've been trying to sort through and figure out what has brought on all the emotion, but I can't really pin it down.

Anyone else get this type of sense about this?

I think I can and it's not going to be a very popular opinion but I will give it anyway.  There is a growing bias in our country and perhaps also the world against financially successful people.  Regardless of what may have been pre-agreed upon the appearance is that Kuchar is being cheap at best but underlying is the implication that he has taken advantage of someone who is entitled to more pay. 

I stand by my statement that Kuchar can't win, that he has already damaged his reputation and that he should do whatever it takes to make this story go away quickly.  Pay the guy off to not talk about it anymore and don't talk about it himself either. 

He can not win.  He looks bad.

Personally I can't determine how wrong or right he was in this because I wasn't there to hear the discussion between the two and I'm fairly certain there was no written contract.  So I'm not judging Kuchar as right or wrong just simply stating he will never appear right to the overwhelming number of people.  Honestly the case could be made that he is wrong even if he paid the agreed upon price because he took advantage of the guy - people normally get paid between 50-100K for what this guy did - offering 15k just doesn't seem proper.  You can argue until you are blue in the face that he wasn't a professional caddy - if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - its a duck - at least it is to me.

On another note could we please be careful about name calling here - I know it's unintended but we may be pushing the limit at this point.  I'm certain that is not what we want to do.  This is clearly an emotionally charged topic and it would be nice to talk it all the way out while learning everyone's perspective and take. 

I for one am learning something from the varying opinions.

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I keep checking in to this topic from time to time to read what everyone has to say or their opinions. I kept telling myself to let it be. So here's my one and only say...

I can't really find much interest in it but it's been going on here now for 6 pages and  over a 100 posts. I missed the picture where Kucher slapped the old boy with a wad of $100 bills and hurt his feelings. This Kucher nothing-thing it's certainly effecting a lot of folks for some reason. Stuff like this isn't really interesting to me. It's like celebrity gossip. Big whoop. Like most things in golf I read about the Kucher thing and moved on almost immediately. It has no meaning or interest to me in the grand scheme of things. I'm not Kucher's keeper. Same with Sergio recently. My opinion of Kucher and Sergio haven't changed either way. I actually enjoy watching both of them play. That's all it is to me. Golf Entertainment. Watching tournaments. Neither of these guys committed a felony. But they've sure paid a (IMO unnecessary) price apparently in the court of social media - public opinion and with the virtue signaling crowd. 

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I’ve been called a lot worse than obtuse. As Kuchar said in his press release, “ I’m certainly not losing sleep over it!”

 

For that matter, I’m not losing sleep over message board opinions of me either!

 

 

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Here; now maybe y’all can drop this. Hope no one ever gets in your business like everyone’s been in Matt’s.
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Here; now maybe y’all can drop this. Hope no one ever gets in your business like everyone’s been in Matt’s.
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After reading that it sounds like El Tucan extorted an extra 45 grand out of Matt.

Before that statement gets anybody's undies in a bunch, I have already stated that personally I would have gave the caddie more than 5 grand before leaving Mexico. However, they had an agreement that Matt honored. Then shortly afterwards decided to tip him an extra 15 g's. Matt had no reason to do so other than the kindness of his heart. El Tucan declined and that should have been the end of this debacle. The fact that this situation escalated to the point of Matt basically being forced to pony up the extra dough by the public and El Tucan, says more about them then Matt in my book.

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Nice words.

 

 

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3 hours ago, blackngold_blood said:

After reading that it sounds like El Tucan extorted an extra 45 grand out of Matt.

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He did. Matt stuck to the deal that was made, and El Tucan decided to make a issue over a deal that Matt KEPT. Was this what Matt should have done in the first place, yes, but after El Tucan raised an issue, I would have been LESS likely to give him extra money. El Tucan basically said, "I am willing to ruin Matt's reputation over the fact that I am upset about the deal I agreed to." That wouldn't make me want to pay someone. 

That said, Matt did the only thing he could. Because El Tucan was greedy, and went public, Matt HAD to pay him to maintain his positive reputation. If El Tucan had a problem, he should have addressed it privately with Matt. That would have made me want to pay him even more. 

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El Tucan just made it almost a guarantee that tour players are going to be staying away from course or resort caddies around the world and especially when the tour returns to this event. 

And if they do get them there will be plenty of legal docs to sign on both sides 

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Can we pause for a second and look at it another way.

 

Kuchar’s statement was late but wise and ends the controversy.

 

However why are we turning El Tucan into a villain? It’s entirely possible that he had no clue what caddies were paid and that Kuchar did indeed take advantage of him.

 

The fact is that we don’t know Kuchar, we don’t know Tucan. I’m glad he got some extra dough out of the deal - and wisdom prevailed and Kuchar moves on with very little damage to his reputation.

 

Everybody wins - but I’d think twice before making anyone wear the black or white hat in this.

 

 

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It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I like the fact that he donated to the philanthropic causes supported by the tournament.  That was a nice touch.

DriverCobra  Aerojet LS
Woods-
Cobra  LTD 3w 15*, 5W 19*,  F9 24* 
Irons- XXIO X (6-A)

Wedges- Callaway Jaws Raw (54/58)

Putter- Bettinardi BB56
Ball- Maxfli Tour X/Wilson Triad
Buggy- Clicgear 4.0
Bag- Callaway Org 14/Fairway C

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3 minutes ago, revkev said:

Can we pause for a second and look at it another way.

Kuchar’s statement was late but wise and ends the controversy.

However why are done turning El Tucan into a villain? It’s entirely possible that he had no clue what caddies were paid and that Kuchar did indeed take advantage of him.

Fact is we don’t know Kuchar, we don’t know Tucan. I’m glad he got some extra dough out of the deal - and wisdom prevailed and Kuchar moves on with very little damage to his reputation.

Everybody wins -


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I only see El Tucan as the villian due to the fact that I believe he extorted the money from Kuchar.  As you say it is entirely possible he had no clue what caddies were paid but when Matt offered the additional 15k and El Tucan figured out what a caddie is paid he should have accepted the extra money and considered it a lesson learned for next time.  Now because of his greediness there will be no next time.  A lot of people seem to think that Kuchar was wrong for not paying more than they agreed upon but no seems to care that El Tucan was too greedy to accept a huge bonus.

I have no dog in this fight and don't think any less of Kuchar than I did before this mess.  I do however believe that Kuchar has been shamed out of a lot of money because too many people in this world tend to worry about everybody but themselves.

I am glad he is giving money to the tournament charities.

 

 

 

What is in my Sun Mountain C-130 bag or Jones MyGolfSpy bag

Driver:    :cobra-small: Dark speed LS 8* set to -1.5* with an Attas Daaas 4x shaft @ 45”

Fairway: :srixon-small: F85 3 wood with a XPhplexx Agera X @ 42.5”

 :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Driving Iron: :ping-small: Rapture 2-Iron 

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS Pros 4-PW with Steelfiber I95s 

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50* T grind with Steelfiber i110s

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 46* zz wedge shaft

               :ping-small: Glide 4.0 E grind 54* zz wedge shaft

Putters: :L.A.B.: Mezz.1 34” 69* lie

              :EVNROLL: EV5.1 black 33.5” 69* lie

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14 minutes ago, revkev said:

Can we pause for a second and look at it another way.

 

Kuchar’s statement was late but wise and ends the controversy.

 

However why are we turning El Tucan into a villain? It’s entirely possible that he had no clue what caddies were paid and that Kuchar did indeed take advantage of him.

 

The fact is that we don’t know Kuchar, we don’t know Tucan. I’m glad he got some extra dough out of the deal - and wisdom prevailed and Kuchar moves on with very little damage to his reputation.

 

Everybody wins - but I’d think twice before making anyone wear the black or white hat in this.

 

 

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The difference is a local caddie doesn’t getvthe same pay as a tour caddie. Caddies at resorts are paid a recommended fee per loop. In cases where they are working for a tour pro at an event or something similar there is a fee for that week of service.  They are typically independent contractors and negotiate or the resort handles the assignment and what they fee will be.

so not knowing what caddies make imo is irrelevant to this situations 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I actually feel sorry for Tucan now. Remember he lives in Mexico. This story has definitely made Mexican news. Cartels, gangs, and everyone else will probably be coming after some of that money. That’s 962,140 pesos. I definitely would not want everyone to know I just hit the jackpot, especially in Mexico.


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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

El Tucan just made it almost a guarantee that tour players are going to be staying away from course or resort caddies around the world and especially when the tour returns to this event. 

And if they do get them there will be plenty of legal docs to sign on both sides 

I'll take it one step further.  If I am a tour pro and saw what happened to Kuchar, I don't even play in a Tour event in Mexico, ever again.

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2 hours ago, blackngold_blood said:

I only see El Tucan as the villian due to the fact that I believe he extorted the money from Kuchar.  As you say it is entirely possible he had no clue what caddies were paid but when Matt offered the additional 15k and El Tucan figured out what a caddie is paid he should have accepted the extra money and considered it a lesson learned for next time.  Now because of his greediness there will be no next time.  A lot of people seem to think that Kuchar was wrong for not paying more than they agreed upon but no seems to care that El Tucan was too greedy to accept a huge bonus.

I have no dog in this fight and don't think any less of Kuchar than I did before this mess.  I do however believe that Kuchar has been shamed out of a lot of money because too many people in this world tend to worry about everybody but themselves.

I am glad he is giving money to the tournament charities.

Well said.  It's sad that a generation of Americans known as "The Entitlement Generation" has shamed Kuchar into this madness.  Everyone goes around saying, "I deserve this," and "I'm entitled to this."  It's greedy, it's prideful, and it's self-serving.  

I also think there is a divide between younger people and older people in this debate.  Maybe that's too easy to generalize or stereotype, but I heard a bunch of older people trying to figure out why people are making a fuss over this because they don't think Kuchar did anything wrong.  And then I heard a bunch of younger people ripping Kuchar to shreds because he was "selfish" and "cheap" and "greedy".

Perhaps it's not only an age thing, but I can draw my own conclusions on this from a worldview and political perspective as well.

I also find it hilarious and so predictable that a group of people who go around shouting down anyone they disagree with by saying, "who are you to judge me," are always the first ones to line up on places like twitter and rip someone like Matt Kuchar to shreds.  Sure, I get it, we can't judge you, but you have every right to judge everyone else.  Yeah, I know, you aren't judging anyone.  You just choose to call what you are doing something else.

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  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
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Well said.  It's sad that a generation of Americans known as "The Entitlement Generation" has shamed Kuchar into this madness.  Everyone goes around saying, "I deserve this," and "I'm entitled to this."  It's greedy, it's prideful, and it's self-serving.  
I also think there is a divide between younger people and older people in this debate.  Maybe that's too easy to generalize or stereotype, but I heard a bunch of older people trying to figure out why people are making a fuss over this because they don't think Kuchar did anything wrong.  And then I heard a bunch of younger people ripping Kuchar to shreds because he was "selfish" and "cheap" and "greedy".
Perhaps it's not only an age thing, but I can draw my own conclusions on this from a worldview and political perspective as well.
I also find it hilarious and so predictable that a group of people who go around shouting down anyone they disagree with by saying, "who are you to judge me," are always the first ones to line up on places like twitter and rip someone like Matt Kuchar to shreds.  Sure, I get it, we can't judge you, but you have every right to judge everyone else.  Yeah, I know, you aren't judging anyone.  You just choose to call what you are doing something else.


I agree that the caddie is a complete A-hole, but Kuch dug himself into a hole by engaging the social media police and his statement was absolutely ridiculous. I stand by my opinion that his agent is 100% at fault. Could have easily handled it and no one would even know.


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