Pace of Play Survey

[Kor.A.Door]

Our expected “time” is 4:15. Which can easily be done playing ready golf and just keeping up with the group in front of you. Our course has lots of room between greens and tees so there are some holes where it takes a minute or 2 to drive from one to the next. We do however run into some guys who take an early tee time and just bog down the entire course.  Not often, but sometimes. It only takes one group out early to slow the entire course down for hours. It also helps that we have a golf pro the really cares for the game and the course. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Kor.A.Door

[PMookie]

Set em up like BlueJack National. The rough is slightly longer than the fairway if I read correctly.

I could handle this all day long and so could everyone else.

Same here! Why more course don’t do this, I’ll never know.


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[HardcoreLooper]

Would love to see more courses go wall-to-wall fairway like Bluejack or Sweetens Cove, but a more modest course would probably do better to go with Maintenance Down the Middle and let the rough crisp up a bit.  Less maintenance = less growth = less mowing = less expense.  You could afford to make the fairway a little wider if you're mowing the rough far less.

There's been enough studies on the length of time it takes to play golf and its impact on participation rates.  To me, this breaks a couple of ways:

1. The 5+ hour round of golf.  Plenty of discussion on this in posts above.
2. The concept of a round of golf.  If I want to play some golf after work, why are my choices limited to either 18 or 9 holes at most courses?  Why can't I play 6 or even 4 holes if I want to squeeze in some golf after work?  If I have an hour to spare, I really would rather not hit range balls; I'd rather go play a few holes.  Charge me by the hole.  I'd be happy to pay.

Get people on the golf course for a few holes when they only have an hour to spare and they'll want to play full rounds of golf when they have time.

[romeopapazulu]

We tend to try to use the thinned out crowds on Sunday afternoons here to our advantage.  But when the starter sends out 5 consecutive 1 and 2 somes after our foursome, our round that was going well with a wide open course in front of us gets a fair bit longer letting all those groups play through.

I'm sure they don't want to turn any golfers away, but none from our group will be returning to that place.  I guess it's a no win situation for the course.  Either all the singles get mad for having to pair up, or we get mad letting five groups play through.

 

[TR1PTIK]

8 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

 

1. The concept of a round of golf.  If I want to play some golf after work, why are my choices limited to either 18 or 9 holes at most courses?  Why can't I play 6 or even 4 holes if I want to squeeze in some golf after work?  If I have an hour to spare, I really would rather not hit range balls; I'd rather go play a few holes.  Charge me by the hole.  I'd be happy to pay.

My home course started offering this - pretty sure we're the only course in the area that does it. I've never used it since I'm a member, but seems like a great way to get more people participating. Not sure what's actually done for the numbers though.

[russtopherb]

5 hours ago, romeopapazulu said:

We tend to try to use the thinned out crowds on Sunday afternoons here to our advantage.  But when the starter sends out 5 consecutive 1 and 2 somes after our foursome, our round that was going well with a wide open course in front of us gets a fair bit longer letting all those groups play through.

I'm sure they don't want to turn any golfers away, but none from our group will be returning to that place.  I guess it's a no win situation for the course.  Either all the singles get mad for having to pair up, or we get mad letting five groups play through.

 

That's on the starter. They should be doing their best to send out foursomes if possible unless the course is dead. I show up a lot as a single but I have no expectation of going out as one. 

For the record, I voted for clueless idiots as the #1 reason for slow play. I see far too much of that behavior - 20 handicaps spending 5+ minutes looking for a lost ball, those same golfers lining up a 20 foot putt from every angle, etc. 

When I go play 18 I have the expectation of spending 4-5 hours on the course. Any more than that and it's due to inconsiderate golfers? No thanks. I have other things to do in my life than sit for 10+ minutes on every tee box. 

[gaussman1]

The concept of a round of golf.  If I want to play some golf after work, why are my choices limited to either 18 or 9 holes at most courses?  Why can't I play 6 or even 4 holes if I want to squeeze in some golf after work? 

Yes this. I would love it if courses had 3- 6s instead of 2- 9s. You could get so many more people who were just playing 6 or 12 out on the course during those before and after peak times.

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[JAGolfore]

Playing competitive golf slow play is a major issue.  Last year in the IL State Am my group was put on the clock.  We would be standing on the next tee hitting while our slow player was putting out trying to get back in position.  Luckily we did, but it certainly is an issue when those people are changing the game of others. 

I think it is a different issue for public play as courses are trying to get as many people out  as possible and they do not understand to keep moving.  Telling stories is great, but you can continue to play and tell your story. 

[Mr. 82]

7 hours ago, romeopapazulu said:

We tend to try to use the thinned out crowds on Sunday afternoons here to our advantage.  But when the starter sends out 5 consecutive 1 and 2 somes after our foursome, our round that was going well with a wide open course in front of us gets a fair bit longer letting all those groups play through.

I'm sure they don't want to turn any golfers away, but none from our group will be returning to that place.  I guess it's a no win situation for the course.  Either all the singles get mad for having to pair up, or we get mad letting five groups play through.

 

That's a perspective I hadn't thought of honestly.  I'm always looking at this thing from a singles point of view.  But honestly, if I show up as a single I've never had a problem being paired up with 1, 2 or 3 others and making a group out of it.  That usually comes with a mixed bag, depending on who it is they are asking to pair up with me.  I've had everything from, "Sure, be happy to play with you," to the long cold stare and the eventually, "I'd prefer not to pair up," or words to that effect.

I guess I'm the odd one out here honestly, as I don't really have any consistent golf playing partners.  At least not consistent enough to where I have a weekly game, or even once a month.

So I guess what it all boils down to is that I quit the game altogether, and find other things to spend my time doing.  I bought a pressure washer yesterday and spent a couple of hours pressure washing my driveway and walkway to my front door.

But yeah, I suppose I get it.  I guess I am better off not playing as a single, for fear that I might piss off the foursome that would be inconvenienced by my 2 hour solo round.  I wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers, and by all means, the golf course belongs to that one foursome and no one else.

Between slow play and situations like this on the local public course, and John Holmes basically playing intentionally slow and saying F You to anyone that doesn't like it, I've pretty much exhausted my patience and options with regards to golf.  Definitely time to spend my time doing other things.

[JohnSmalls]

My irritation comes from a lack of courtesy more than slow play.  I sympathize with the high handicaps, we were all there at one point.  For those of you that are good and will play alongside a high capper, thank you.  You guys are a big help in making us better golfers. 

Now, there are guys on both ends of the GHIN pool that are problematic.

It drives me nuts to be waiting on a tee box every hole while the group in front takes out a barometric pressure chart to figure out how quickly he needs to drink his 3 beers before seeing how far his 4 tee shots will go into the woods.  Or the money game in front of us, with a mix of handicaps, takes so many looks to read a putt you would think Jessica Biel was holding the flagstick.

Enjoy YOUR game the way you want to play it.  But if you are holding people up, let them through.  We would love to tip our cap to Jessica Biel, and have a beer with you as we are passing.

 

-All of this said to mean, the lack of courtesy is what I believe to be the greatest threat to the pace of play.  

[Shankster]

Just for clarification I’m not talking high handicap players. I’ve played with many that can keep pace. But as JohnSmalls the lack of courtesy. I’m talking the brings 12 boxes of balls and loses them all. That’s not high handicap, that’s just bad. In the woods every shot, or duffing it 3 yards at a time.

An example I have for you all is a short par 5. Both of the guys in front of me duck hooked their tee shots into the tall weeds. Looked 5-10 minute each for the ball. Took a drop, duck hooked that shot 30 yards deep in the woods, went and looked for those for 5-10 minutes each. So I’m standing there waiting for 20 minutes while they look for their ball.

I’m not saying I don’t have bad shots and slow down a little every round. But imagine if there were 4 of them. 40 minute par 5.

[JohnSmalls]

8 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I’m talking the brings 12 boxes of balls and loses them all.

and people that insist on giving their foursome on course lessons...while losing 12 boxes of balls.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

I am lucky that pace of play is not an issue in my rural area of Iowa.  Even if I wasn't able to play a round on Saturday or Sunday morning in 3.5 hours or less for a foursome, I wouldn't mind it.  I look it as any time on the course no matter how short or long is a great time and better than working!  I cherish every chance I can get out to the course and I hope with my membership and no more schooling that happens a lot more this year.

[gaussman1]

Playing competitive golf slow play is a major issue.  Last year in the IL State Am my group was put on the clock.  We would be standing on the next tee hitting while our slow player was putting out trying to get back in position.  Luckily we did, but it certainly is an issue when those people are changing the game of others. 
I think it is a different issue for public play as courses are trying to get as many people out  as possible and they do not understand to keep moving.  Telling stories is great, but you can continue to play and tell your story. 

That sucks. He's forcing the rest of you to accommodate him so that you don't get penalized. I've had that happen a few times and the association is always so reluctant to come out with a timer and penalize the individual but rather just penalized the whole group if you don't catch back up. I'm old enough now that if we get put on the clock and there is a player or two responsible I just tell them, "fellas, no offense but I'm not getting penalized for your pace of play. If you can't pick it up I'll call for a rules official to watch you until we get back in position so the whole group doesn't get a penalty."
It doesn't go over so well with some players.

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[JAGolfore]

That sucks. He's forcing the rest of you to accommodate him so that you don't get penalized. I've had that happen a few times and the association is always so reluctant to come out with a timer and penalize the individual but rather just penalized the whole group if you don't catch back up. I'm old enough now that if we get put on the clock and there is a player or two responsible I just tell them, "fellas, no offense but I'm not getting penalized for your pace of play. If you can't pick it up I'll call for a rules official to watch you until we get back in position so the whole group doesn't get a penalty."
It doesn't go over so well with some players.

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It does not go over well with a lot of players. But I like that you say something. That’s what needs to be done.


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[JudgeSmails]

when I have to stand and wait to hit each shot, it's impossible for me to get in a 'rhythm'.   

The thing i see most that slows it down, are people just not being ready to hit their shot when it's their turn.   I've seen so many 4-somes in carts, where BOTH carts go to each and ever ball...WHY

[fixyurdivot]

On 2/18/2019 at 8:35 AM, GolfSpy Barbajo said:

Hi guys -- 

I'm working on a blog on the issue of slow play and I have a few poll questions. If  you could spare a few moments and give some answers to the questions provided, it'd be a huge help.  

Also, please feel free to provide any additional thoughts for discussion. I know the world is going all JB Holmes over slow play at the moment, so I figure this is a good time to ask...

 

Thanks!

 

NOTE: You need to be in the desktop version to complete the poll. Thanks!

One of your questions should have included the answer "not playing ready golf".  How many have us been party to three guys waiting on the green for the fourth, who gutted one across the green into rough or trap, to walk around and finish getting on the green before putting out?  We need to break the tradition of "player furthest out plays first".  Certainly if someone is considerably further back, and in the shot path of others in the group, it makes sense.  But I so often see folks waiting who are on the other side of the fairway and very close in distance.  This opportunity makes the "pin in vs. pin out" debate like stepping over $100 bills to pick up dimes.

[Kenny B]

On 2/18/2019 at 10:35 PM, romeopapazulu said:

We tend to try to use the thinned out crowds on Sunday afternoons here to our advantage.  But when the starter sends out 5 consecutive 1 and 2 somes after our foursome, our round that was going well with a wide open course in front of us gets a fair bit longer letting all those groups play through.

I'm sure they don't want to turn any golfers away, but none from our group will be returning to that place.  I guess it's a no win situation for the course.  Either all the singles get mad for having to pair up, or we get mad letting five groups play through.

 

We have that problem too at certain times of the day during the week.  Personally, I don't feel that our foursome deserves a 5 hour round just because we have to let a bunch of 1 and 2 somes play through.  So, we don't let them.  We play in 4 hours walking, maybe a little less.  If the clubhouse puts out 1 and 2 somes, we tell them to pair up or just wait behind us.  Maybe they will make a new friend.

[revkev]

I will be doing this on my laptop tomorrow


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[MaxEntropy]

On 2/18/2019 at 12:45 PM, Kenny B said:

As long as the pace is steady, I can deal with it.

This. I'm OK with a 4.5 -5 hr round if the pace is steady - it's golf on public courses. What really chaps me, and the courses themselves can control it through effective marshals, is when we are stuck behind a group or two that have fallen behind and display zero situational awareness to try to close the gap. Sometimes, as @Shankster says, it's people in over their heads. Other times it's the people that act like they are on tour and plumb-bob and study a 2 foot putt from all 4 sides.

I don't know what the answer is, but good, effective marshals are a start and, like the pro game, hold people accountable for their slow play. I've told the story a few times, but I once played a course in Jefferson City, MO that had a time clock (similar to what you would see for factory employees). You punched the clock when you were on the first tee, at the turn, and after 18. They allowed a little bit of wiggle room (~15 minutes/9, as I recall), but you were expected to be on time or you were invited not to return if there were more than a certain number of offenses. It seems harsh, but the course was very busy and moved along pretty quickly.

[bens197]

The irony of country club golf is how the biggest complainers are most often the worst offenders.

I like to remind myself that during a slow round, it’s better than the alternative of not being on the course.


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[Kenny B]

1 hour ago, bens197 said:

The irony of country club golf is how the biggest complainers are most often the worst offenders.

I like to remind myself that during a slow round, it’s better than the alternative of not being on the course.


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All courses in my area are open to the public except one. I have had slow rounds on every public course, but when I have played at the country club, I have never waited on a shot.  However, I have only played the course maybe a dozen times over the years, but pace has been very good.  It is also the hardest course in the area IMO; used to host web.com tour events back in the Hogan, Nike, buy.com, and Nationwide tour days.  I'd join but it's out of my budget range.

[Jmikecpa]

Slow play is one of the main reasons that I play at a private club.  Out early in the AM on the weekends and most afternoons I can walk in under 4 hours with no issues.  Are there notoriously slow players at my club sure, but the nice part is I can play with a group that I enjoy that don't take forever to play the game.

[Shankster]

I don’t think I could handle a 4+ hour round. I’d go nuts. Not to mention I’d stiffen up like a tree. The pace of a 4 hour round is way too dang slow.

Now if it was Augusta and I had one shot to play it, it would be a sunrise to sunset round, preferably on the longest day of the year.

[deejaid]

I really think there needs to be more options like 6, 12, or 18 hole rounds. I Iive on a course and many of my rounds are 4 holes. I can go play the four hole loop in 30 minutes and get my golfing fix. I rarely have time for 18 at this point in my life but still prefer playing 18 if possible it just doesn’t work out to often.

 

But Lack of talent + Alcohol = the biggest pace of play problem. I still find it funny all the discussion about spin rates, launch angles, club head speed, etc., which leads to $400 shaft upgrades, custom fitting, “3 wraps of tape under my left hand....” etc, etc, and then players go out and drink a 12 pack during the round. How in the hell can you possibly play to your ultimate potential and and maximize all your high tech custom fit gear when you are drinking? Any technological gains are surely lost by the impaired motor skills.

 

 

Playing the wrong tee boxes is the other biggest factor to slow play. I was up on the practice green the other day watching groups tee off. Now I know the 2019 MGS Most Wanted Driver results are about to be announced, but I’ll tell what half the people should be hitting off the tee, a 3-wood.

 

Just because you can hit that driver 280 yards once per round “if you get ahold of it” doesn’t mean you should be playing the tips.

 

A 200 yard drive down the middle is better for everyone than 280 yards two fairways to the right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[bens197]

All courses in my area are open to the public except one. I have had slow rounds on every public course, but when I have played at the country club, I have never waited on a shot.  However, I have only played the course maybe a dozen times over the years, but pace has been very good.  It is also the hardest course in the area IMO; used to host web.com tour events back in the Hogan, Nike, buy.com, and Nationwide tour days.  I'd join but it's out of my budget range.

My comment wasn’t determined to make it a private vs muni debate.

I was just always amused how the offenders were often so vocal about others. That cracked mirror isn’t helping

[Kenny B]

10 minutes ago, bens197 said:

 

My comment wasn’t determined to make it a private vs muni debate.

I was just always amused how the offenders were often so vocal about others. That cracked mirror isn’t helping

 

I didn't take it that way.  I know that pace of play can be an issue at private courses as well as munis.  Maybe I was just lucky on the days I played.  The CC has been around a long time; it's expensive (compared to other courses in the area) to join.  I can't say that I have ever seen anyone playing there that I would consider a beginner, and the members move a a nice pace.

[revkev]

Thanks for inviting us to participate Barbajo.  I will make a couple of comments here. 

I think that slow play is a huge problem and that it does in fact keep people away from the game.  I was surprised to see that the overwhelming majority of respondents think that "idiot golfers" cause slow play.  I would maintain that play could be expeditated by the course itself by keeping rough down, fairways wide, setting the tees shorter than listed on the card (guys will always play tees that are too long), carefully setting the pins in level places on the green and keeping speeds at a reasonable rate and then posting lots of reminders about pace of play throughout the course and on the cart.  With the new rules golfers should be encouraged to leave the pin in as everyone doing so will increase pace of play also. 

Forget the 4 hour stuff - that's ridiculous - pace of play should be 3:30 - shoot for that - it's not unreasonable.  Greg Norman and Fuzzy Zoeller completed an 18 hole US Open playoff in under 3 hours - that's walking on one of the toughest courses in the world under ridiculous conditions playing for a huge prize. 

[palvord]

1 hour ago, deejaid said:

I really think there needs to be more options like 6, 12, or 18 hole rounds. I Iive on a course and many of my rounds are 4 holes. I can go play the four hole loop in 30 minutes and get my golfing fix. I rarely have time for 18 at this point in my life but still prefer playing 18 if possible it just doesn’t work out to often.

 

But Lack of talent + Alcohol = the biggest pace of play problem. I still find it funny all the discussion about spin rates, launch angles, club head speed, etc., which leads to $400 shaft upgrades, custom fitting, “3 wraps of tape under my left hand....” etc, etc, and then players go out and drink a 12 pack during the round. How in the hell can you possibly play to your ultimate potential and and maximize all your high tech custom fit gear when you are drinking? Any technological gains are surely lost by the impaired motor skills.

 

 

Playing the wrong tee boxes is the other biggest factor to slow play. I was up on the practice green the other day watching groups tee off. Now I know the 2019 MGS Most Wanted Driver results are about to be announced, but I’ll tell what half the people should be hitting off the tee, a 3-wood.

 

Just because you can hit that driver 280 yards once per round “if you get ahold of it” doesn’t mean you should be playing the tips.

 

A 200 yard drive down the middle is better for everyone than 280 yards two fairways to the right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I love the idea of additional options for types of rounds other than 9 or 18 holes.  I know that my in-laws would love a 12 hole round as they begin to fade after that point.

A 6 hole round would be an excellent choice for folks with busier weekend schedules or crazy work week schedules.

 

[revkev]

54 minutes ago, palvord said:

I love the idea of additional options for types of rounds other than 9 or 18 holes.  I know that my in-laws would love a 12 hole round as they begin to fade after that point.

A 6 hole round would be an excellent choice for folks with busier weekend schedules or crazy work week schedules.

 

Back in the day there used to be such things - guys would sneak out late in the day or early in the morning to play the "loop" whatever that might be at a particular course.  If it gets people playing golf I'm in favor of it.  Better to have 10 people playing 6 holes than 4 playing 18!