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Pace of Play Survey

Does Pace of Play REALLY Matter?  

657 members have voted

  1. 1. Does slow play.....

    • Keep you from playing golf at certain courses?
      184
    • Keep you from play golf at certain courses on certain days?
      319
    • Keep you from playing golf at all?
      12
    • Not affect how often or where you play?
      141
  2. 2. Does slow play negatively affect....

    • Enjoyment of your round?
      532
    • The business health of a specific golf course?
      17
    • Overall participation in the sport?
      73
    • Nothing, it's not a big deal.
      34
  3. 3. What are the biggest causes of slow play?

    • Course setup (high rough/narrow fairways/silly-fast greens)?
      42
    • Playing from the wrong tees?
      120
    • A long/difficult Par 3 within the first few holes?
      8
    • Idiots who don't know golf etiquette and think they are JB Holmes?
      345
    • Poor use of 2-person carts?
      52
    • Not enough space between tee times?
      89
  4. 4. How much extra would you be willing to pay for a course with a guaranteed 4 hour or less round of golf?

    • 10% over "normal" greens fees?
      74
    • 15%?
      42
    • 20%?
      46
    • 25%?
      22
    • More? This is what they're SUPPOSED to be doing!
      408
    • It's not a problem.
      64
  5. 5. Do you think golf courses REALLY see slow play as a problem that needs to be solved?

    • Yes
      218
    • No
      438


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5 minutes ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

Hard to blame Matt Every from this last weekend but this should --never-- happen at a PGA tour event.

The PGA has a serious issue on their hands and they need to address it ASAP.

 

Serious in whose mind? The players may think it’s an issue, fans may think it’s an issue but the pga tour may be ok with it because they can adjust tee times to have the rounds fit into tv coverage. Pga tour is going to get their money and tv will get their ad dollars. Until that changes it’s not a serious issue to the pga tour imo

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

Serious in whose mind? The players may think it’s an issue, fans may think it’s an issue but the pga tour may be ok with it because they can adjust tee times to have the rounds fit into tv coverage. Pga tour is going to get their money and tv will get their ad dollars. Until that changes it’s not a serious issue to the pga tour imo

...when people start tuning out because it takes 5 hours to watch a final round due to slow play, when people stop playing the game themselves on the weekend because it takes 6 hours to play, when Tiger leaves the game and the purses take a nose dive, when advertisers no longer pay big bucks because there aren't as many viewers....it's typically better to be proactive than reactive.

without the players and the fans, what else does the PGA have?

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

...when people start tuning out because it takes 5 hours to watch a final round due to slow play, when people stop playing the game themselves on the weekend because it takes 6 hours to play, when Tiger leaves the game and the purses take a nose dive, when advertisers no longer pay big bucks because there aren't as many viewers....it's typically better to be proactive than reactive.

without the players and the fans, what else does the PGA have?

It already takes 5 hours but again tee times and tv times account for this.

its a course management problem as much as a  pga tour problem. If a course sets expectations of pace of play, sets up tee times plus the course setup to keep a good flow and has staff that knows how to address pace of play it’s not a big of an issue.

tv ratings will obviously drop without tiger regardless of the pga fixed pace of play or not...purse changes may or may not drop when he’s gone...they didn’t drop during his injury time away. 

For sure the advertisers will have an influence on whether or not the pga changes how they enforce penalties for slow play but imo that’s not something that’s going to happen anytime soon.

the doom and gloom talk around golf is always an interesting one. Golf is supposedly dying yet I saw somewhere on social media Callaway increased profits from last year and I believe a couple other big brands did too.

 

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Posted (edited)

Golf is not sick and it is not dying. Speed it up or just keep it where it is.... makes no matter. This is just like the NFL is supposedly losing fans and viewers.... no, it's not!

I don't like taking over 4 hours to play either, but I keep going back to do it again every week end.... lol.

Edited by silver & black

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Golf is not sick and it is not dying. Speed it up or just keep it where it is.... makes no matter. This is just like the NFL is supposedly losing fans and viewers.... no, it's not!
I don't like taking over 4 hours to play either, but I keep going back to do it again every week end.... lol.


I know 1 fan the NFL lost and if you can’t play in 4 hours or less you shouldn’t be on the course. These guys have the exact yardages, wind etc. it shouldn’t take 90 seconds to hit a golf shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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1 hour ago, Pstmstr said:

 


I know 1 fan the NFL lost and if you can’t play in 4 hours or less you shouldn’t be on the course. These guys have the exact yardages, wind etc. it shouldn’t take 90 seconds to hit a golf shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

So they have the exact yardage on every shot? With exact yardages what happens when that exact yardage puts them in between clubs?

does lie, pin location, wind, green condition, trouble around the green play a role? 

Can they play faster as a whole? Sure. Let’s remember they aren’t out there for a casual round but are playing for their livelihoods. If it takes 5 hours then oh well. After all there are several cameras on course and we get to see several groups play and rarely have to watch slow play. 

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This topic is one that I could go on for days about. But I’ll spare you all.

Slow play and waiting for terrible golfers is the worst thing about golf.

Imagine 4 JB’s in a group with an average drive of 150 yards playing from the tips. I know you’ve all fallen victim to this at some point. I’m not talking kids or Champions Tour guys. Guys my age that just can’t play golf.

On my home course it is public access so we have all types and golf standards. One thing that is always present though is the manners shown by the slow players, we have never yet been held up for too long we are always called through.

I think back to how I started and if we are all honest I think the greater majority of us would have been slow when we started so as long as they call through they can take as long as they like.

I am 77 and yesterday I walked nine in 1hr 15 without rushing on a course that was fairly empty, if it had taken double that I would not have bothered as I usually sit down watch the wildlife and smell the flowers whilst waiting for my turn.

Golf is a good game for teaching us patience.
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I've found it doesn't matter where or when I play.... there are ALWAYS slow players ahead of me/my group. I've teed off at 6:45 in the morning, only to catch up with a 4some 3 holes later. After that, the 4 - 5 hour round is here to stay. Unless you have a wide open course to yourself, there is no way around it. I suppose you guys playing private courses don't have the same problem, at least to that extent.

I can and have played 18 holes in 2.5 hours. There are just too many people that don't understand about moving at a respectable pace and/or don't care about holding up the golf course.... no matter what time you try to play.

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I've found it doesn't matter where or when I play.... there are ALWAYS slow players ahead of me/my group. I've teed off at 6:45 in the morning, only to catch up with a 4some 3 holes later. After that, the 4 - 5 hour round is here to stay. Unless you have a wide open course to yourself, there is no way around it. I suppose you guys playing private courses don't have the same problem, at least to that extent.
I can and have played 18 holes in 2.5 hours. There are just too many people that don't understand about moving at a respectable pace and/or don't care about holding up the golf course.... no matter what time you try to play.

As I posted before, on my home course you would never be held up because the normal thing is to call on through, you do have some minor hold ups but are never expected to follow a slower group for 15 holes. The only problem we had was when a group decided it was time to stop and eat so they started a pick nick on one of the greens, suffice to say it did not last long the pro had them escorted from the course.

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On 2/21/2019 at 2:23 PM, 00sportsman said:

The course I grew up playing was interestingly suited for short rounds.  It was a nine hole course, and every hole had at least two distinct tee boxes, one for the front and one for the back.  The really convenient thing was that the #8 tee was closer to the #1 green than the #2 tee was.  That meant you could play 1, 8, 9 in a very logical manner.  I've played 3, 6, 9, 12 and 18 hole rounds on that course many times.  It was very common, when I was first learning the game, for me to go with my parents around dusk and just play 1, 8, 9.  While I don't necessarily think this is a pace of play thing, I do see the benefit of engaging people in the game.

The course I worked at growing up had several great short loops because of the design.  We could play:

1 and 9

10 and 11

1, 9, 10, 11

10, 11, 12 and 11 again

10, 11 and the second shot on 18

10, 13 and 9 

10, then 13 - 18

This sounds nuts, but actually it was great.  We'd shut down the shop at 7:30, and inevitably someone would still be out on the course with a cart, so we'd go out and play until it was too dark to see.  Then we'd put those last few carts away, clean the clubs, lock everything up, then go out and cause trouble.

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Wow... these guys seem to agree with most everyone on here.

Time to start penalizing players.  Wonder if the PGA will listen?  hopefully....

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/27345821/mcilroy-koepka-woods-frustrated-slow-play

I don't understand why we can't just implement that," McIlroy said at Liberty National, where he is playing in the Northern Trust, the first of three FedEx Cup playoff events. "We are not children that need to be told five or six times what to do. 'OK, you're on the clock. OK, I know if I play slowly here, I'm going to get penalized.' I think that's the way forward.

"I think the guys that are slow are the guys that get too many chances before they are penalized. So it should be a warning and then a shot. It should be you're put on the clock and that is your warning, and then if you get a bad time while on the clock, it's a shot. That will stamp it out right away."

Rory McIlroy's frustration with slow play on the PGA Tour has him pushing for greater enforcement by officials. 
The PGA Tour's current timing rules rarely result in stroke penalties. If a group is deemed "out of position," all players in that group are put on the clock and required to play shots in 40 seconds, longer if the first to play in the group.

At that point, the player still gets a warning if he has a bad time. It takes a second bad time for a one-shot penalty to kick in. Getting a warning results in fines that are not disclosed. Once the group is no longer deemed out of position, players are no longer timed.

"It's gotten out of hand," Koepka said. "It seems there are so many sports psychologists and everybody telling everybody that they can't hit until they are ready; you have to fully process everything. I take 15 seconds and go, and I've done all right. So I don't understand taking a minute and a half."

Koepka said he has tried to slow down to purposely get put on the clock.

"That doesn't seem to work because nobody will penalize anybody," he said. "And you know what, even if I take over 40 seconds, penalize me. I'll be the guinea pig. It doesn't matter. It needs to happen."

Woods seemed resigned to little happening. He said he knows of players who will purposely play slow when grouped with a slower player -- hoping to get put on the clock so the entire group is forced to speed up.

"What about the guys behind them and the logjam that creates," Woods said. "We've been fighting that for, God, ever since I grew up watching the game, guys were complaining about slow play. We can only go as fast as the group in front of us goes."

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16 hours ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

Wonder if the PGA will listen?

I'm going to say no. 

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19 hours ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

Wow... these guys seem to agree with most everyone on here.

Time to start penalizing players.  Wonder if the PGA will listen?  hopefully....

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/27345821/mcilroy-koepka-woods-frustrated-slow-play

I don't understand why we can't just implement that," McIlroy said at Liberty National, where he is playing in the Northern Trust, the first of three FedEx Cup playoff events. "We are not children that need to be told five or six times what to do. 'OK, you're on the clock. OK, I know if I play slowly here, I'm going to get penalized.' I think that's the way forward.

"I think the guys that are slow are the guys that get too many chances before they are penalized. So it should be a warning and then a shot. It should be you're put on the clock and that is your warning, and then if you get a bad time while on the clock, it's a shot. That will stamp it out right away."

Rory McIlroy's frustration with slow play on the PGA Tour has him pushing for greater enforcement by officials. 
The PGA Tour's current timing rules rarely result in stroke penalties. If a group is deemed "out of position," all players in that group are put on the clock and required to play shots in 40 seconds, longer if the first to play in the group.

At that point, the player still gets a warning if he has a bad time. It takes a second bad time for a one-shot penalty to kick in. Getting a warning results in fines that are not disclosed. Once the group is no longer deemed out of position, players are no longer timed.

"It's gotten out of hand," Koepka said. "It seems there are so many sports psychologists and everybody telling everybody that they can't hit until they are ready; you have to fully process everything. I take 15 seconds and go, and I've done all right. So I don't understand taking a minute and a half."

Koepka said he has tried to slow down to purposely get put on the clock.

"That doesn't seem to work because nobody will penalize anybody," he said. "And you know what, even if I take over 40 seconds, penalize me. I'll be the guinea pig. It doesn't matter. It needs to happen."

Woods seemed resigned to little happening. He said he knows of players who will purposely play slow when grouped with a slower player -- hoping to get put on the clock so the entire group is forced to speed up.

"What about the guys behind them and the logjam that creates," Woods said. "We've been fighting that for, God, ever since I grew up watching the game, guys were complaining about slow play. We can only go as fast as the group in front of us goes."

This is one reason I lobe Books Koepka. The guy just speaks his mind and does not care what people think of him. He is trying to better the sport as nobody has time for slow play.

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20 hours ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

Wow... these guys seem to agree with most everyone on here.

Time to start penalizing players.  Wonder if the PGA will listen?  hopefully....

The PGA Tour is the players, they own it, they make the slow-play policies.  The current policy is specifically designed to give the players plenty of chances to catch back up to the groups ahead without getting penalty strokes.  The anti-slow-play group is pretty vocal, but they're a pretty small minority, I really doubt that they'll ever get enough clout to change the policy. 

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