Has a shorter driver NOT helped anybody?

[azstu324]

So my last 3 drivers have been cut to 44". At some point, I think I fell under the spell that shorter = better and have just been getting my drivers cut to 44". The performance has been decent and obviously not enough to think that I needed to make any corrections.

Now let me preface that I'm 6' 2.5" so a hair taller than the average Joe Golfer and my current driver is a Cobra King LTD Black (2017) with a UST Elements Chrome tipped to S++. 

Just recently however, I hit a few demos with a more "industry" standard 45.5"+ length and noticed a few things: Dispersion and direction was much better (dead straight to very light fade), Club head speed was 4 mph higher, carry distance was a good 20 yds longer, and trajectory and spin equally improved.

These are the drivers that I hit: Ping G400LST, Ping G410, Taylormade M3 (Weights neutral toward the face), Taylormade M5 (same weighting as M3), Cobra f9, f8, and F7 (all weights toward face). All with XS shafts geared for mid - low launch. 

I realize that the drivers tested were mostly new and with very slightly updated tech but I also was able to add to the mix 2 older model Cobra drivers (F7 and F8) to the mix and they both performed to similar #'s as the 2019's and at minimum, my driver is of the same era as the F7 with similar performance functions.. So that got me thinking that maybe it was time to re-wire my thinking and look to either lengthen my current or get a longer shaft installed. 

Concluding thought, I've made some pretty drastic improvements to my swing mechanics over the past couple of years so I'm also wondering if maybe my 2016 swing was better aided by a shorter shaft and maybe my "more corrected" 2019 swing doesn't get along as well with the shorter club..? 

Anybody run into anything similar? 

 

Cheers!

[null]

Ideal shaft length. just like other aspects of club,  vary from person to person and should be part of any fitting.  There is no magic number for driver shaft length for everyone.  

https://mygolfspy.com/mgs-labs-is-longer-really-longer/

https://clubchampiongolf.com/newsletters/pluggedingolf-driver-shaft-length

[azstu324]

14 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Ideal shaft length. just like other aspects of club,  vary from person to person and should be part of any fitting.  There is no magic number for driver shaft length for everyone.  

https://mygolfspy.com/mgs-labs-is-longer-really-longer/

https://clubchampiongolf.com/newsletters/pluggedingolf-driver-shaft-length

I guess my question wasn't as clear as I intended. I'm not necessarily asking if 45.5" is the best length but more so if shortening the driver has had any adverse affects for anybody. I may still find that 44.75" or 45.75" could be my ideal length. I'm just kind of getting around to realizing that a shorter driver isn't the way to go for me. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

I’ve played cut down shafts including my current g400 to standard length 46” setups.  It all gets down to the fitting and what works. 

Some people are going to make better contact with a shorter driver while others will have no issue with playing stabdard lengty for the specific brand.

finding what optimizes launch conditions this optimizing carry and role. 

[null]

9 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

I guess my question wasn't as clear as I intended. I'm not necessarily asking if 45.5" is the best length but more so if shortening the driver has had any adverse affects for anybody. I may still find that 44.75" or 45.75" could be my ideal length. I'm just kind of getting around to realizing that a shorter driver isn't the way to go for me. 

Check out the second link I posted. 

Quote

Conclusion
If you’re in search of more consistency from the tee, don’t be so quick to shorten your driver. While it’s entirely possible that a shorter driver will help you hit it straighter, our data shows that a longer driver could also be the solution. Whether you’re searching for distance, accuracy, or a little of both, make an appointment with a trusted club fitter to find the optimal length for your driver.

It shows that a shorter driver shaft ISNT right for everybody.  It is not one size fits all and a fitting would help you determine the driver shaft length that is best for you.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

I am no club fitter so take this however you want. I believe there are so many variables to dispersion that include length, flex, moi, etc. However I normally only use center face contact to determine my length and it absolutely varies between heads and shafts. For me, by going to a shorter driver my left right dispersion improved a little but my front to back dispersion improved greatly. I no longer get that absolutely blasted one but I also rarely get that super short one either.

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[juspoole]

I had a shortened shaft in my M2 driver with a Graphite Design AD DI 7X shaft.  Shaft was not fitted and the driver played to 44.25.  When I did catch one, it's been the longest combo I've ever had, but my misses were awful and really cost me on the course.  I had my largest dispersion of anything I can remember both distance wise and left to right while I played the shorter shaft.

Recently I was fitted to a TS3 with a 45.5 inch shaft and immediately everything got better. 

Mine isn't the best example as this may have come down to the fitting aspect more than the length of shaft, but still wanted to join in the convo.  I'm with the camp that club fitting will do the most good, however I've always found this difficult because any place you go cannot have that many shafts of varying lengths to try out.  So really the trial and error method seems to be one of the only ones that work.

Can anyone shed some light on how you would go about fitting a shorter shaft and actually know the results would be better?

[PMookie]

I guess my question wasn't as clear as I intended. I'm not necessarily asking if 45.5" is the best length but more so if shortening the driver has had any adverse affects for anybody. I may still find that 44.75" or 45.75" could be my ideal length. I'm just kind of getting around to realizing that a shorter driver isn't the way to go for me. 

If you cut down the current shaft, and just go try the club, the weighting is going to be changed significantly. Weight would need to be added back to the head to keep a similar swing weighting. With that, I wouldn’t say going shorter is automatically better. I just did a driver fitting and shorter shafts and I didn’t get along well. It’s not an automatic answer, otherwise we ALL would be playing shorter shafts....


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[bens197]

I played a 44.5” driver from 2001-2017. Last year I played a 45” PING HZRDUS and I felt like my driving improved. My misses to the left were nearly non-existent. To your point, I found better success by reducing one horrible miss by adding 0.5”.

However, like jlukes said, there is no one size fits all.


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[azstu324]

If you cut down the current shaft, and just go try the club, the weighting is going to be changed significantly. Weight would need to be added back to the head to keep a similar swing weighting. With that, I wouldn’t say going shorter is automatically better. I just did a driver fitting and shorter shafts and I didn’t get along well. It’s not an automatic answer, otherwise we ALL would be playing shorter shafts....


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I did also forget to mention. That I've increased swing weight back to D4 after cutting. That's the cool thing about the cobra LTD driver is you can open the space port and add more weight to the head if needed. I just added some silicone to the space port cap to keep the CG low as well as a small bit of poly fill to help dampen sound.. then voila.. D4.

the more I practice, the luckier I seem to get..

[azstu324]

20 hours ago, juspoole said:

I had a shortened shaft in my M2 driver with a Graphite Design AD DI 7X shaft.  Shaft was not fitted and the driver played to 44.25.  When I did catch one, it's been the longest combo I've ever had, but my misses were awful and really cost me on the course.  I had my largest dispersion of anything I can remember both distance wise and left to right while I played the shorter shaft.

Recently I was fitted to a TS3 with a 45.5 inch shaft and immediately everything got better. 

Mine isn't the best example as this may have come down to the fitting aspect more than the length of shaft, but still wanted to join in the convo.  I'm with the camp that club fitting will do the most good, however I've always found this difficult because any place you go cannot have that many shafts of varying lengths to try out.  So really the trial and error method seems to be one of the only ones that work.

Can anyone shed some light on how you would go about fitting a shorter shaft and actually know the results would be better?

yeah I'm inherent tinkerer. Something uncontrollable inside me drives me to find out answers to things on my own as to better understand the functionality and mechanics of something rather than just have somebody do it for me. I'm in no way saying it's wrong to do things the other way.. My wife will attest that I get in my own way quite often because I can't just let something go if I think I have the ability to learn or understand something that's unfamiliar. It's a blessing and a curse. 

 

 

[perseveringgolfer]

I tried a 44.5" shaft in my Titleist 910D3- for a week it was a fairway finder with a soft fade. 

After the honeymoon period it all went wonky again (my swings fault not the shaft I feel) so I went back to the 45.5" shaft.

 

sorry, not really added a lot here, suffice to say the change helped for a bit then back to normal length.

 

[azstu324]

1 hour ago, bens197 said:

I played a 44.5” driver from 2001-2017. Last year I played a 45” PING HZRDUS and I felt like my driving improved. My misses to the left were nearly non-existent. To your point, I found better success by reducing one horrible miss by adding 0.5”.

However, like jlukes said, there is no one size fits all.


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Yeah I'm pretty sure you've all helped me come to the conclusion that maybe 3 years ago when I decided to start playing a 44" driver, at the time it was a good thing for me because my swing needed some help and that seemed to be a good solution. Since then I've improved a lot of body mechanics that seem to be better suited towards a longer stick. I've added quite a bit of initial body rotation as to help shallow the follow through. A shorter club seems to not shallow as much as I'd like and sometimes ends up coming through quicker than desired. With the longer drivers, Not only was my left pull mostly eliminated, but my club head speed and distance seemed to increase without any additional effort.. and with plenty of control. 

 

Thanks to all who have commented here. You're all a top notch group of gents! 

[Drumdog]

The only thing a shorter driver helped me with is losing yardage. But like others have said, it's purely what you are comfortable with.

I used to swing a 50" driver and honestly hit 80% or more of the fairways. The only reason I am not swinging it now is the rule change a few years ago. I did try a shorter shaft at 44" as an experiment a couple of years ago, but it did nothing for me so I went back to my current 1 1/2 " over standard.

[revkev]

I guess my question wasn't as clear as I intended. I'm not necessarily asking if 45.5" is the best length but more so if shortening the driver has had any adverse affects for anybody. I may still find that 44.75" or 45.75" could be my ideal length. I'm just kind of getting around to realizing that a shorter driver isn't the way to go for me. 

Yes, I fell prey to the Golf magazine, friend, guy who knows enough to be dangerous “tip” and shortened my driver shaft an inch about six years ago. I went from a guy who hit 75 percent of my fairways and drove it 235-245 to a guy who couldn’t find the sweet spot - but sure could find the spiny parts of my drivers face.

I even asked my fitter about shaft length a year ago when he fit me for my current shaft. I had been at 45 for some time and this shaft is 451/4. He said, “That’s the exact same shaft and length that you hit best. Do you really want to mess with it after two hours and 200 bucks?”

What I’ve learned is that drivers are built for the length shaft that is in them, change the length, change the driver’s playing characteristics. I would strongly recommend that anyone get fit before changing the length of your driver shaft. Some will benefit from a shorter shaft others from a different shorter shaft others from a different driver others with a longer shaft.




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[M. Parsons]

19 minutes ago, revkev said:

 

 

Yes, I fell prey to the Golf magazine, friend, guy who knows enough to be dangerous “tip” and shortened my driver shaft an inch about six years ago. I went from a guy who hit 75 percent of my fairways and drove it 235-245 to a guy who couldn’t find the sweet spot - but sure could find the spiny parts of my drivers face.

I even asked my fitter about shaft length a year ago when he fit me for my current shaft. I had been at 45 for some time and this shaft is 451/4. He said, “That’s the exact same shaft and length that you hit best. Do you really want to mess with it after two hours and 200 bucks?”

What I’ve learned is that drivers are built for the length shaft that is in them, change the length, change the driver’s playing characteristics. I would strongly recommend that anyone get fit before changing the length of your driver shaft. Some will benefit from a shorter shaft others from a different shorter shaft others from a different driver others with a longer shaft.




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Thanks for the info, and this is why I need to find a quality/qualified fitter. I've never gone out on a limb and cut my shaft to make it shorter, but I do choke down most of the time. Mainly because my current driver is almost an inch longer than my old one. But probably most importantly, I don't feel that I was fit correctly. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, revkev said:

 

 

Yes, I fell prey to the Golf magazine, friend, guy who knows enough to be dangerous “tip” and shortened my driver shaft an inch about six years ago. I went from a guy who hit 75 percent of my fairways and drove it 235-245 to a guy who couldn’t find the sweet spot - but sure could find the spiny parts of my drivers face.

I even asked my fitter about shaft length a year ago when he fit me for my current shaft. I had been at 45 for some time and this shaft is 451/4. He said, “That’s the exact same shaft and length that you hit best. Do you really want to mess with it after two hours and 200 bucks?”

What I’ve learned is that drivers are built for the length shaft that is in them, change the length, change the driver’s playing characteristics. I would strongly recommend that anyone get fit before changing the length of your driver shaft. Some will benefit from a shorter shaft others from a different shorter shaft others from a different driver others with a longer shaft.




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The thing that many forget when changing the length of shafts in clubs is swingweight will change. Some manufactures will make sure to swingweight properly when shaft length is changed while others may not even if asking for a specific weight.

those who take a shaft and get it cut down after the fact should have everything checked by a fitter/shop somewhere 

[azstu324]

45 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The thing that many forget when changing the length of shafts in clubs is swingweight will change. Some manufactures will make sure to swingweight properly when shaft length is changed while others may not even if asking for a specific weight.

those who take a shaft and get it cut down after the fact should have everything checked by a fitter/shop somewhere 

Yeah swing weight is definitely something that I've been mindful of whenever shortening a driver. Everything from the shaft weight, to the grip, to the head weight all play factors so it really is important to at least have an idea of what you're doing IF trying to venture down that path on your own. Again, I'm fully aware that working directly with a fitter is the optimal way to go.. but I'm a little crazy in the brain and want to understand this stuff for myself.. even if it means wrecking a club or 2 along the way. Luckily I've got a pretty good relationship with the fitters and techs at PGATSS so they're always happy to help when I've got questions or need some specs on a club before making any adjustments.. Them and the folks at Golfworks have been a big help.

Now to sidestep the conversation to talk about consistency or standards among brands.. there isn't any.. When people say "standard".. there really is no standard between major brands.. I would probably classify it more as "general gray area". Cobra F9 specs are 45.25" @ D3 while the F8 came out at 45" and D2. Callaway Epic Flash is 45.5 @ D3 while the Sub Zero is D4. Ping all come out at 45.75" and range from D1 to D4. If that's not enough to make your head spin, all of the irons are built with completely different lofts and lie angles from each other.. even within the brands they can vary considerably. This crazy game!

[revkev]

Yeah swing weight is definitely something that I've been mindful of whenever shortening a driver. Everything from the shaft weight, to the grip, to the head weight all play factors so it really is important to at least have an idea of what you're doing IF trying to venture down that path on your own. Again, I'm fully aware that working directly with a fitter is the optimal way to go.. but I'm a little crazy in the brain and want to understand this stuff for myself.. even if it means wrecking a club or 2 along the way. Luckily I've got a pretty good relationship with the fitters and techs at PGATSS so they're always happy to help when I've got questions or need some specs on a club before making any adjustments.. Them and the folks at Golfworks have been a big help.
Now to sidestep the conversation to talk about consistency or standards among brands.. there isn't any.. When people say "standard".. there really is no standard between major brands.. I would probably classify it more as "general gray area". Cobra F9 specs are 45.25" @ D3 while the F8 came out at 45" and D2. Callaway Epic Flash is 45.5 @ D3 while the Sub Zero is D4. Ping all come out at 45.75" and range from D1 to D4. If that's not enough to make your head spin, all of the irons are built with completely different lofts and lie angles from each other.. even within the brands they can vary considerably. This crazy game!

To add to it there’s not even a standard way of measuring shaft length. :)


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[azstu324]

2 hours ago, revkev said:

 

 

To add to it there’s not even a standard way of measuring shaft length.


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[revkev]

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 10:59 AM, azstu324 said:

Yeah I'm pretty sure you've all helped me come to the conclusion that maybe 3 years ago when I decided to start playing a 44" driver, at the time it was a good thing for me because my swing needed some help and that seemed to be a good solution. Since then I've improved a lot of body mechanics that seem to be better suited towards a longer stick. I've added quite a bit of initial body rotation as to help shallow the follow through. A shorter club seems to not shallow as much as I'd like and sometimes ends up coming through quicker than desired. With the longer drivers, Not only was my left pull mostly eliminated, but my club head speed and distance seemed to increase without any additional effort.. and with plenty of control. 

 

Thanks to all who have commented here. You're all a top notch group of gents! 

A couple of additional observations that are extremely relevant to the topic.

1.  I think OEMs have gotten better at designing their heads to accommodate a slightly longer shaft.  For example when I was preparing for the Ping G400 test last Spring I was surprised to see that seemingly all of their pros were using shafts that were longer than 45 inches. 

 

2.  I think the shaft shortening on the driver was a far more effective piece of advice five plus years ago. 

 

3.  I like the way you introduced this thread.  It was asking a significant question.  I was happy to answer.  I've made tons of equipment errors over the years.  Tons of them.  This was one in a series of many as I learned what equipment fit me best and who to work with the find the best bag for my game (that fits in my budget.)

 

4.  Driver or the club used off the tee most is the most important club in the bag, not putter, so this is a very important discussion.

[EthanSterlingPrice]

I had a burner 2.0 reshafted and the builder made it an inch shorter by mistake. Never did hit that club very well but I can’t decide even now if it was the length or not but I did go back to standard length and saw better performance later on.


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[azstu324]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:20 AM, revkev said:

A couple of additional observations that are extremely relevant to the topic.

1.  I think OEMs have gotten better at designing their heads to accommodate a slightly longer shaft.  For example when I was preparing for the Ping G400 test last Spring I was surprised to see that seemingly all of their pros were using shafts that were longer than 45 inches. 

 

2.  I think the shaft shortening on the driver was a far more effective piece of advice five plus years ago. 

 

3.  I like the way you introduced this thread.  It was asking a significant question.  I was happy to answer.  I've made tons of equipment errors over the years.  Tons of them.  This was one in a series of many as I learned what equipment fit me best and who to work with the find the best bag for my game (that fits in my budget.)

 

4.  Driver or the club used off the tee most is the most important club in the bag, not putter, so this is a very important discussion.

It's funny because it was the Ping G400 that kind of got me re-thinking the shorter driver question to begin with. I'm sure there's a bit more to it than just the shaft length but the G400 LST has by far produced the best all around numbers for me under stock setup conditions. The only other club that was as as successful was the new TM M5.. and guess what.. it was bumped from 45.5 (last year) to 45.75 (this year).  I believe that Ping and now TM offer the longest stock driver on the market @ 45 3/4. Good on Ping for the past few years for recognizing that not everybody plays best with a shorter shaft and to offer maximum length from the get-go to allow a fitter to better customize for the consumer. 

Like you Rev, I'm also a tinkerer but a student. I don't make changes expecting the perfect results. I make them to learn and better understand and if by chance my results end up being just what I needed, then it's a win/win. I'm also not afraid to ask questions and seek advice from those with more experience. Now if only my understanding of the game and equipment could translate to my performance on the course.. I'd have a capital $M attached to my bank account.  

[fixyurdivot]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:33 AM, jlukes said:

Check out the second link I posted. 

It shows that a shorter driver shaft ISNT right for everybody.  It is not one size fits all and a fitting would help you determine the driver shaft length that is best for you.

Not too move the thread off track here, but I'm curious about the inserted link "trusted fitter" and whether Club Champion is regarded as one of the best?

As to driver shaft length, all I can offer is that when I start having accuracy issues, I choke down slightly on the grip and shorten my swing a wee bit.  This typically helps and I just start slowing moving back to normal grip and swing.