RickyBobby_PR Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 When it comes to forgiveness there seems to be lots of ways to describe it and seems like it depends on what the manufacture wants to tell as the story. Ball speed, moi, etc Hiw do my fellow spies define it determine how forgiving a driver is? Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Ball speed retention is #1 and 1A for me #2 is the ability for a ball to finish online when being hit off different parts of the face (assuming club path and face angle are good) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfspy_CG2 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Great question and topic. For me I relate it to how the driver does when I hit it low on the heel. I've had some drivers where the ball would go absolutely nowhere when struck there, and some where it might only lose 10 yards or so. 1 minute ago, jlukes said: Ball speed retention is #1 and 1A for me #2 is the ability for a ball to finish online when being hit off different parts of the face (assuming club path and face angle are good) I don't have any speed to retain...so that's not a good measurable for me G430 Max 10K TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 SM10 48F/54M and58K S159 48S/52S/56W/60B Select 5.5 Flowback 35" ProV1 Play number 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I'm generally straight with the driver so I'm looking for as much distance off of mishits as I can get - my misses tend to be low on the club face so whatever it takes to reduce spin on those miss hits works for me. Honestly though I don't miss by too much all that often with driver when I'm playing well so forgiveness is not the first attribute that I look for in a driver - it's distance. Great question, don't ever remember having a topic like this one. Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Keeping ball speed from various points on the face, and dispersion from all shots. The tighter the numbers and dispersion circle, the better the forgiveness in my view.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, jlukes said: Ball speed retention is #1 and 1A for me #2 is the ability for a ball to finish online when being hit off different parts of the face (assuming club path and face angle are good) Ball speed retention is the one used a lot. It’s going to be interesting to see how manufacturers market speed in the future since from my understanding the usga is testing cor/ct across the face now. The one issue I have with ball speed being used to determine forgiveness is when an errant shot occurs having more ball speed is going to make the miss even bigger. The high block, push that starts right and keeps going will go further offline with faster ball speeds Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. 82 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 If it's still in the fairway, in spite of my crappy swing, well, that's forgiveness in my book. G400 Driver XR 4 Fairway 16.5° Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21° G Series 5-9 irons SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58° Ghost Spider S putter Nexus Laser Rangefinder Garmin Approach S20 GPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said: When it comes to forgiveness there seems to be lots of ways to describe it and seems like it depends on what the manufacture wants to tell as the story. Ball speed, moi, etc Hiw do my fellow spies define it determine how forgiving a driver is? IMO, it's all about ball speed on off center hits - maybe a little bit about gear effect via bulge & roll. I'd have to search for it, but MGS posted an article not too long ago that seemed to break down the differences between "forgiveness" and MOI pretty well. I think a lot of golfers misconstrue forgiveness to mean that they'll find the fairway more often, but that's simply not the case. Even MOI can only do so much as MOI only protects against twisting of the face due to impact. It can't help you if the face is already open when you get there. Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00sportsman Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, GSwag said: If it's still in the fairway, in spite of my crappy swing, well, that's forgiveness in my book. That's pretty much where I stand on it as well. I can play the driver well sometimes but when I put a bad swing on it, it can be really bad. My current driver is in play a lot more on those types of swings. If it minimizes the difficulties caused by a bad swing or bad contact, I'd call it forgiving. I always try to remember that I'm not good enough to get mad! My Bag: G400 Max G30 3W King S9-1 5W Aeroburner 3 Rescue/Hybrid G400 5-UW RTX4 52* and 56* 2Bar Mallet Traverse II Cart Bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 59 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Ball speed retention is the one used a lot. It’s going to be interesting to see how manufacturers market speed in the future since from my understanding the usga is testing cor/ct across the face now. The one issue I have with ball speed being used to determine forgiveness is when an errant shot occurs having more ball speed is going to make the miss even bigger. The high block, push that starts right and keeps going will go further offline with faster ball speeds True - but the high block push is a face angle issue. I can hit a block out the middle of the face pretty easily! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shankster Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I’ve been contemplating a topic like this myself, but honestly I have no idea how I’d describe it.I have a hate/hate relationship with drivers anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perseveringgolfer Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Forgiveness to me means an off centre strike will go as far or nearly as far as a sweet spot strike if the other variables are the same. It also means tighter dispersion with the same caveats. Closest I've seen and felt this year to that level of 'forgiveness' is the Titleist TS drivers.........................so far! Driver Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs) 4 Wood Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+ Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex Hybrid Titleist 910H 19* Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S' Irons Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S' Wedges Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54* KBS Tour in 'R' Putter 'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB13 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I define forgiving as, maintaining ball speed on mishits, and dispersion ellipsis. I usually care more about the dispersion, because I would rather be in that strip of grass called, "fairway". As far as forgiveness goes, I would say that it is difficult to quantify a "forgiveness factor" since forgiveness is a personal term, not scientific. It really boils down to what you priority is in a driver and then getting fit to that priority. For me, I want a driver that finds fairways. For @revkev, it's keeping ball speed up. Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Just because you hit one driver straighter then the other doesn't mean it is more forgiving - it just means that it is a better fit. The F9 may be one of the most forgiving drivers on the market this year (in terms of ball speed retention), but I couldn't keep it straight. That had nothing to do with how forgiving a driver is and everything to do with how well it fit my swing. Ball speed and MOI are tangible numbers that directly relate to the makeup of the driver, independent of face angle and club path inputs. Things like spin profile, draw bias, etc are all other characteristics that a driver has that can make it a good fit for a particular swing, but they aren't in the conversation in terms of forgiveness when I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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