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When it comes to forgiveness there seems to be lots of ways to describe it and seems like it depends on what the manufacture wants to tell as the story. Ball speed, moi, etc

Hiw do my fellow spies define it determine how forgiving a driver is?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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Ball speed retention is #1 and 1A for me

#2 is the ability for a ball to finish online when being hit off different parts of the face (assuming club path and face angle are good) 

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Great question and topic.

For me I relate it to how the driver does when I hit it low on the heel.  I've had some drivers where the ball would go absolutely nowhere when struck there, and some where it might only lose 10 yards or so. 

1 minute ago, jlukes said:

Ball speed retention is #1 and 1A for me

#2 is the ability for a ball to finish online when being hit off different parts of the face (assuming club path and face angle are good) 

I don't have any speed to retain...so that's not a good measurable for me 😁

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I'm generally straight with the driver so I'm looking for as much distance off of mishits as I can get - my misses tend to be low on the club face so whatever it takes to reduce spin on those miss hits works for me.  Honestly though I don't miss by too much all that often with driver when I'm playing well so forgiveness is not the first attribute that I look for in a driver - it's distance.

 

Great question, don't ever remember having a topic like this one.

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Keeping ball speed from various points on the face, and dispersion from all shots. The tighter the numbers and dispersion circle, the better the forgiveness in my view.


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Driver: :cobra-small: King F9 Speedback/:callaway-small:Epic Max LS, Xphlexxx Busa 2 Liquid, XX stiff, 45”

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17 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Ball speed retention is #1 and 1A for me

#2 is the ability for a ball to finish online when being hit off different parts of the face (assuming club path and face angle are good) 

Ball speed retention is the one used a lot. It’s going to be interesting to see how manufacturers market speed in the future since from my understanding the usga is testing cor/ct across the face now.

The one issue I have with ball speed being used to determine forgiveness is when an errant shot occurs having more ball speed is going to make the miss even bigger. The high block, push that starts right and keeps going will go further offline with faster ball speeds

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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If it's still in the fairway, in spite of my crappy swing, well, that's forgiveness in my book.

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

When it comes to forgiveness there seems to be lots of ways to describe it and seems like it depends on what the manufacture wants to tell as the story. Ball speed, moi, etc

Hiw do my fellow spies define it determine how forgiving a driver is?

IMO, it's all about ball speed on off center hits - maybe a little bit about gear effect via bulge & roll. I'd have to search for it, but MGS posted an article not too long ago that seemed to break down the differences between "forgiveness" and MOI pretty well. I think a lot of golfers misconstrue forgiveness to mean that they'll find the fairway more often, but that's simply not the case. Even MOI can only do so much as MOI only protects against twisting of the face due to impact. It can't help you if the face is already open when you get there.

Edited by TR1PTIK

Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Aldila RIP Alpha 60 S
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Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
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Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
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19 minutes ago, GSwag said:

If it's still in the fairway, in spite of my crappy swing, well, that's forgiveness in my book.

That's pretty much where I stand on it as well.   I can play the driver well sometimes but when I put a bad swing on it, it can be really bad.  My current driver is in play a lot more on those types of swings.  If it minimizes the difficulties caused by a bad swing or bad contact, I'd call it forgiving.

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I always try to remember that I'm not good enough to get mad!

 

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59 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Ball speed retention is the one used a lot. It’s going to be interesting to see how manufacturers market speed in the future since from my understanding the usga is testing cor/ct across the face now.

The one issue I have with ball speed being used to determine forgiveness is when an errant shot occurs having more ball speed is going to make the miss even bigger. The high block, push that starts right and keeps going will go further offline with faster ball speeds

 

True - but the high block push is a face angle issue.  I can hit a block out the middle of the face pretty easily!

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Forgiveness to me means an off centre strike will go as far or nearly as far as a sweet spot strike if the other variables are the same.

It also means tighter dispersion with the same caveats.

 

Closest I've seen and felt this year to that level of 'forgiveness' is the Titleist TS drivers.........................so far! 😏

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I define forgiving as, maintaining ball speed on mishits, and dispersion ellipsis. I usually care more about the dispersion, because I would rather be in that strip of grass called, "fairway". As far as forgiveness goes, I would say that it is difficult to quantify a "forgiveness factor" since forgiveness is a personal term, not scientific. It really boils down to what you priority is in a driver and then getting fit to that priority. For me, I want a driver that finds fairways. For @revkev, it's keeping ball speed up. 

Edited by GB13
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Just because you hit one driver straighter then the other doesn't mean it is more forgiving - it just means that it is a better fit.

The F9 may be one of the most forgiving drivers on the market this year (in terms of ball speed retention), but I couldn't keep it straight.  That had nothing to do with how forgiving a driver is and everything to do with how well it fit my swing.

Ball speed and MOI are tangible numbers that directly relate to the makeup of the driver, independent of face angle and club path inputs.  

Things like spin profile, draw bias, etc are all other characteristics that a driver has that can make it a good fit for a particular swing, but they aren't in the conversation in terms of forgiveness when I think about it.

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