Steel or Graphite?

[dmarch]

I’ve just started my experiment with graphite.  Replaced my Cobra Fly-Z Plus w/ KBS Tour 120’s with Fly-Z Plus with UST Mamiya Recoil 110 F4.  Only three rounds in, but so far, so good.  I’ve been able to control ball flight as needed and dispersion seems fine.

I had gotten fitted this winter and the fitter suggested Nippon Modus 3 105’s in stiff flex and said he felt the shaft would reduce vibration enough to alleviate my tennis elbow.  I have not bought in to his opinion on this.  If anyone has any input on this, I would love to hear.

 

[fixyurdivot]

Interesting reports from those of you who have tried/switched from steel. My last couple of fittings list the Project X 5.5 as a good match for me. I haven't started looking on-line for this answer, but does anyone know a good database showing comparative options between steel and composite shafts?  

[Jmikecpa]

Interesting reports from those of you who have tried/switched from steel. My last couple of fittings list the Project X 5.5 as a good match for me. I haven't started looking on-line for this answer, but does anyone know a good database showing comparative options between steel and composite shafts?  

This is a basic chart from Callaway for just launch and spin. At least it is a start.




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[RickyBobby_PR]

38 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Interesting reports from those of you who have tried/switched from steel. My last couple of fittings list the Project X 5.5 as a good match for me. I haven't started looking on-line for this answer, but does anyone know a good database showing comparative options between steel and composite shafts?  

Golfworks.com has specs on shafts 

[Bosox04]

How do steel shafts with Pro Soft inserts compare to graphite for shock absorption?

[fixyurdivot]

52 minutes ago, Bosox04 said:

How do steel shafts with Pro Soft inserts compare to graphite for shock absorption?

Yet another permutation... this is going to take WAY longer than I thought. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Bosox04 said:

How do steel shafts with Pro Soft inserts compare to graphite for shock absorption?

I haven’t tried them but know others who have and they notice a difference in vibration with them in their steel shafts. 

Compared to graphite I don’t thibk the feel of the steel shaft changes it’s just dampening vibrations in contact so I’m guessing the feel between the two materials doesn’t change. Personally I don’t necessarily feel a difference in how the shaft loads and such between steel and graphite

[Jmikecpa]

I haven’t tried them but know others who have and they notice a difference in vibration with them in their steel shafts. 
Compared to graphite I don’t thibk the feel of the steel shaft changes it’s just dampening vibrations in contact so I’m guessing the feel between the two materials doesn’t change. Personally I don’t necessarily feel a difference in how the shaft loads and such between steel and graphite

I play the inserts in my current set and have played them in pretty much every set for the last 8 or so years. No difference in the shaft’s playing characteristics just a bit easier on the hands and elbows. Wouldn’t even consider a steel iron shaft without them.


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[deejaid]

I think the biggest difference for me is the difference in feel when loading the shaft. I had Recoil graphite shafts in my Hogan Ft. Worth Hi irons and while the light weight allowed me to generate more club head speed, my tempo felt off during my swing. I realized I liked the weight of heavier shafts, so I got rid of the Ft. Worth Hi irons stayed with steel in my KZG’s.

One thing to also think about is the kick point of the shaft. For my long backswing, a heavier weight shaft with an active tip section has added yards to my irons while keep my tempo.


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[fixyurdivot]

13 hours ago, deejaid said:

I think the biggest difference for me is the difference in feel when loading the shaft. I had Recoil graphite shafts in my Hogan Ft. Worth Hi irons and while the light weight allowed me to generate more club head speed, my tempo felt off during my swing. I realized I liked the weight of heavier shafts, so I got rid of the Ft. Worth Hi irons stayed with steel in my KZG’s.

One thing to also think about is the kick point of the shaft. For my long backswing, a heavier weight shaft with an active tip section has added yards to my irons while keep my tempo.


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I really need to trial a few irons with composite shafts.  I've hit a couple over the years as friends have acquired them, but never in a focused/comparative review.  How are you liking the KZG irons?  My fitter in Bozeman just added them to his inventory of mfg's.  I plan on testing them later this spring.

[deejaid]

I really need to trial a few irons with composite shafts.  I've hit a couple over the years as friends have acquired them, but never in a focused/comparative review.  How are you liking the KZG irons?  My fitter in Bozeman just added them to his inventory of mfg's.  I plan on testing them later this spring.

I’m on my 5th set of KZG’s now. I’ve had two sets of the Forged Blades and 3 sets of the Forged Cavity Backs (capitalized as those are the model names). I’ve strayed and tried other clubs but the Forged Cavity gives me everything I want in a club so I think I’ve come back for good.

KZG quality really is second to none. They make some beautiful forged irons that have a clean appearance, which I like. They are a little different now as where they were previously forged in Japan by Kyoei, they are now forged in China. The Kyoei forged irons are the most incredible feeling irons I’ve ever hit. They are forged of S25c carbon steel, and while I’m not sure what steel the new Chinese forgings are, they do not feel as good as the Kyoei forgings.

I’d say give them a swing at your fitter though. They are top quality clubs.


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[M.Duchesne]

Yes I voted steel ,but I have to admit that new synergy graphite "well fitted" are spot on.

Since new tech engineers have made a lot of research . I am now charmed by the new Synergy shafts ,lenght wise and very precise.

Tested with Callaway #7 iron ,Rogue Pro,fitted 1/4 + longer.

Edited March 22, 2019 by M.Duchesne
Revision

[tehuti]

I bought a set of no name custom irons with graphite shafts about 11 years ago when I was maybe playing twice a year. When I started playing again in 2017 I only considered graphite. I’ll never switch back.


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[mysterygolfguy]

Not trying to be that guy, but I just feel way more consistent with steel shaft irons. Had fly z graphite irons and couldn't ever seem to be consistent with them, went to steel stiff and found a much better groove. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[PMookie]

I’ve only had Steelfiber, so not exactly graphite, and I’ve tried some Recoils a couple times, but I’ve not found a graphite yet that can give me as tight of a dispersion as steel. I can’t afford the high end shafts that are out now in graphite, so cant speak to those.


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[fixyurdivot]

Well, I tested a couple of graphite shafts last week at my iron fitting.  Ping Alta CB and another which I forgot the brand (UST I think) - both with the G410 7i.  Neither of them worked as well as the AWT 2.0 steel.  On the Alta CB, my ball speed lowered from 100.6 to 98.6, backspin increased from 6291 to 6836, side spinspin increased from 1664.0 to 1989.2, and carry went down from 143.4 to 138.1.  They felt pretty good and did seem to dampen vibration a little. 

[chisag]

... Unless you are very young, still growing and your body can take the pounding, I don't see why anyone would play steel shafts in their irons. About 20 years ago I decided to "master" knockdown shots because it gets very windy in Chicago. Every shot I hit that fall was a knockdown, even off the tee, I used an iron. By the time the season was ending I felt very comfortable flighting my irons down but I developed a nasty case of elbow tendonitis because they don't water in the fall and the ground was usually very hard. Not a smart move in retrospect. Thankfully my Ortho was a golfer and told me I needed to take 5 months off, then start playing graphite in my irons in the Spring. 

... Luckily for me Aldila had just released their NV Tour irons at 130gms and only 1.5* of torque. VJ Singh was using them on tour. I was playing DGS300's and the NV Tour profile was designed to be very similar. A very stout graphite shaft, it worked for me but was a little more shaft than I needed, but my choices were slim to none. The next year Aldila released the NV Pro shaft at 105gms and they were better for me in every way. A year or 2 later the released their VS Proto 100's and they fit me even better! Since 130 to 105 to 100 worked so well, I tried some VS Proto 85's but they turned out to be too light for me. Seems 95-100 is my sweet spot. Skipping ahead I have tried many different graphite shafts in my irons and now play Recoil Prototype 95's and they are the best iron shafts I have hit. 

... The good news is there is a graphite iron shaft for everyone from Recoil 125 Prototypes for the strongest players to 65gm lightweight shafts for the play that needs more distance and a higher trajectory. There are also different levels of feel from very firm feeling Steelfibers to more dampened feeling Recoils to very soft feeling OEM shafts. You have done yourself a disservice if you have only tried one graphite iron shaft and decided they aren't for you. I played 107 days out of 118 days in Phoenix this past winter and I would have never been able to do that with steel. Obviously graphite reduces stress on joints for those with a myriad of injuries, but even a healthy golfer is adding undue stress and vibration to their joints if they play steel. Lastly with the cost of premium steel rivaling graphite:  Modus 3 - $37 with Recoil 95's - $44 and SmacWrap - $39... there isn't a huge difference in price.

Edited May 23, 2019 by chisag

[perseveringgolfer]

12 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Unless you are very young, still growing and your body can take the pounding, I don't see why anyone would play steel shafts in their irons. About 20 years ago I decided to "master" knockdown shots because it gets very windy in Chicago. Every shot I hit that fall was a knockdown, even off the tee where I use an iron. By the time the season was ending I felt very comfortable flighting my irons down but I developed a nasty case of elbow tendonitis because they don't water in the fall and the ground was usually very hard. Nit a smart move in retrospect. Thankfully my Ortho was a golfer and told me I needed to take 5 months off, then start playing graphite in my irons in the Spring. 

... Luckily for me Aldila had just released their NV Tour irons at 130gms and only 1.5* of torque. VJ Singh was using them on tour. I was playing DGS300's and the NV Tour profile was designed to be very similar. A very stout graphite shaft, it worked for me but was a little more shaft than I needed, but my choices were slim to none. The next year Aldila released the NV Pro shaft at 105gms and they were better in every way. A year or 2 later the released their VS Proto 100's and they fit me even better! Since 130 to 105 to 100 worked so well, I tried some VS Proto 85's but they turned out to be too light for me. Seems 95-100 is my sweet spot. Skipping ahead I have tried many different graphite shafts in my irons and now play Recoil Prototype 95's and they are the best iron shafts I have hit. 

... The good news is there is a graphite iron shaft for everyone from Recoil 125 Prototypes for the strongest players to 65gm lightweight shafts for the play that needs more distance and a higher trajectory. There are also different levels of feel from very firm feeling Steelfibers to softer feeling Recoils to very soft feeling OEM shafts. You have done yourself a disservice if you have only tried one graphite iron shaft and decided they aren't for you. I played 107 days out of 118 days in Phoenix this past winter and I would have never been able to do that with steel. Obviously graphite reduces stress on joints for those with a myriad of injuries, but even a healthy golfer is adding undue stress and vibration to their joints if they play steel. Lastly with the cost of premium steel rivaling graphite:  Modus 3 - $37 with Recoil 95's - $44 and SmacWrap - $39... there isn't a huge difference in price.

very interesting- I've always assumed Graphite was for older slow swinging players, it's an assumption probably based on decades ago.

This could be a game changer as I use Modus 105S and 'quite' like them, but I also like some R shafts in steel, so maybe a graphite 105 would be the best of both worlds.

I cant say any fitter I've been to in the last 10 years has ever mentioned graphite as an option.

[chisag]

On 4/9/2019 at 8:37 PM, mysterygolfguy said:

Not trying to be that guy, but I just feel way more consistent with steel shaft irons. Had fly z graphite irons and couldn't ever seem to be consistent with them, went to steel stiff and found a much better groove. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

... We are all individuals with personal preferences. But graphite iron shafts would not be so popular on the LPGA and Champions Tour where their living depends on accuracy if they were inconsistent. Ariya Jutanugarn uses steel fiber shafts in her irons and she swigs faster and harder than many here, including me. 

[chisag]

17 minutes ago, perseveringgolfer said:

very interesting- I've always assumed Graphite was for older slow swinging players, it's an assumption probably based on decades ago.

This could be a game changer as I use Modus 105S and 'quite' like them, but I also like some R shafts in steel, so maybe a graphite 105 would be the best of both worlds.

I cant say any fitter I've been to in the last 10 years has ever mentioned graphite as an option.

 

... That is the perception of many of us that tried original OEM graphite iron shafts that were too light, too flexible and had way too much torque. Because I am an equipment nut, I probably would have tried graphite in my irons by now, but at the time I had tendonitis I was very disappointed to find out I needed to play something other than steel in my irons. 

[chisag]

On 3/19/2019 at 5:51 PM, Bosox04 said:

How do steel shafts with Pro Soft inserts compare to graphite for shock absorption?

 

... While they do change a steel shaft to a more dampened feel, when I had my tendonitis they were zero help. Tried Sensicore, Pro Soft and several do it yourself dampeners. They still produce vibration that graphite does not. 

[yungkory]

18 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... That is the perception of many of us that tried original OEM graphite iron shafts that were too light, too flexible and had way too much torque. Because I am an equipment nut, I probably would have tried graphite in my irons by now, but at the time I had tendonitis I was very disappointed to find out I needed to play something other than steel in my irons. 

The issue I had with graphite shafts growing up (this was a long time ago) was that the club felt imbalanced and I could never time it, like the swingweight was always too light. I'm 33 now and I'm already considering graphite because I have bad wrists from skateboarding, and recently my thumb has been sore (too much time on the computer).

[chisag]

1 minute ago, yungkory said:

The issue I had with graphite shafts growing up (this was a long time ago) was that the club felt imbalanced and I could never time it, like the swingweight was always too light. I'm 33 now and I'm already considering graphite because I have bad wrists from skateboarding, and recently my thumb has been sore (too much time on the computer).

 

... Recoils/Steelfibers come in 95, 100 and 125 gm shafts for a Playah such as yourself. 

[yungkory]

1 minute ago, chisag said:

 

... Recoils/Steelfibers come in 95, 100 and 125 gm shafts for a Playah such as yourself. 

Yeah, I'm excited how many offerings there are now. This was like, 15+ years ago that I tried graphite shafts in irons and they were an OEM offering.

[Sluggo42]

My elbow troubles have basically disappeared, as well as my finger knuckles using the SmacWrap shafts.

[RickyBobby_PR]

After another round with me recoils I’m fully back on the graphite train and highly doubt I will play steel again. 

[fixyurdivot]

5 hours ago, chisag said:

... Unless you are very young, still growing and your body can take the pounding, I don't see why anyone would play steel shafts in their irons. About 20 years ago I decided to "master" knockdown shots because it gets very windy in Chicago. Every shot I hit that fall was a knockdown, even off the tee where I use an iron. By the time the season was ending I felt very comfortable flighting my irons down but I developed a nasty case of elbow tendonitis because they don't water in the fall and the ground was usually very hard. Nit a smart move in retrospect. Thankfully my Ortho was a golfer and told me I needed to take 5 months off, then start playing graphite in my irons in the Spring. 

... Luckily for me Aldila had just released their NV Tour irons at 130gms and only 1.5* of torque. VJ Singh was using them on tour. I was playing DGS300's and the NV Tour profile was designed to be very similar. A very stout graphite shaft, it worked for me but was a little more shaft than I needed, but my choices were slim to none. The next year Aldila released the NV Pro shaft at 105gms and they were better in every way. A year or 2 later the released their VS Proto 100's and they fit me even better! Since 130 to 105 to 100 worked so well, I tried some VS Proto 85's but they turned out to be too light for me. Seems 95-100 is my sweet spot. Skipping ahead I have tried many different graphite shafts in my irons and now play Recoil Prototype 95's and they are the best iron shafts I have hit. 

... The good news is there is a graphite iron shaft for everyone from Recoil 125 Prototypes for the strongest players to 65gm lightweight shafts for the play that needs more distance and a higher trajectory. There are also different levels of feel from very firm feeling Steelfibers to softer feeling Recoils to very soft feeling OEM shafts. You have done yourself a disservice if you have only tried one graphite iron shaft and decided they aren't for you. I played 107 days out of 118 days in Phoenix this past winter and I would have never been able to do that with steel. Obviously graphite reduces stress on joints for those with a myriad of injuries, but even a healthy golfer is adding undue stress and vibration to their joints if they play steel. Lastly with the cost of premium steel rivaling graphite:  Modus 3 - $37 with Recoil 95's - $44 and SmacWrap - $39... there isn't a huge difference in price.

Well, at 58, I am definitely starting to feel the wear and tear.  Left elbow and both shoulders tend to bark at me following a long range session - not so much from a round every 2-3 days. I can only imagine this getting worse as the years roll along, so this is why I asked my fitter about the composite option.  I haven't ordered the G410s yet as he's been off for a couple days this week.

I'll ask him as well, but which composite shaft do you think would most emulate PX 5.5 LZ and the AWT 2.0?  I've been poking around the web looking for some side by side comparison charts of other composite shaft mfg's, but have not found any.  This is the best comparative info on the Alta CB to popular steel options I can find.  Perhaps the issue with the Alta is that stiff is nearly 20 grams lighter than the AWT 2.0 stiff and 25 grams lighter than the PX I was hitting?

[fixyurdivot]

Looks like only the Alta CB are available for the G410's. Lot's of steel options though. 

[chisag]

... If you go to TGW and click on "Enter Custom Specs" you will see several graphite options available for the 410's. For instance Steelfibers are a $40 uncharge and Recoils $33. 

[fixyurdivot]

And I see they offer a 90 day guarantee on custom orders - nice!  I really wish my fitter had more composite shafts to test. Sure hate to think there is a composite option that would fit me well and equal the performance of the AWT's and not get them.