Distance/Game improvement and spin

[revkev]

Last year Chisag started a topic about how Player's Distance irons are here to stay.  I have little doubt that he is right.  However at the same time I noticed through our MGS tests and Most Wanted data that the clubs in this category do not spin well.  The same might be said of Game Improvement irons. 

Both find their stopping power from two factors, high launch leading to a favorable angle of dissent and the fact that most courses have soft greens. 

However I think that I have chink a hole in the armor of these categories - although I don't believe that chink is such that it would move me away it will probably cause me to rethink this particular shot.  It also illustrates how far my ball striking had sunk and how SuperSpeed doesn't only benefit driver SS.  It helps overall ball striking.

Here goes:  With improved ball striking I'm finding that I have far better trajectory control.  Most especially I am able to hit any sort of shot that I want with my middle irons - draw, fade, high, low.  I would never use a fade in competition unless it was to get out of trouble but I've got it on the range.  I would most certainly use a low or knock down shot.  In fact there was a time when it was one of my staples, keep it under the wind, control the distance with my short irons, hit that shot rather frequently once.  Sunday I found myself with 143 into a 10 plus mph right to left wind with a middle back placement.  I would not have reached with an 8 and if I put 7 up in the air it was going to still be drawing under those wind conditions.  So I went with the knock down shot.  I hit it perfectly or so I though - our greens however are firm and although I hit short of the pin the lack of trajectory and lack of spin because its a GI caused it to carom over the back of the green.  I flushed the ball so it was not me.

Has anyone else experienced this with either Players Distance or GI clubs?  If so how do you handle that shot?  I think if I had it to do again I'd try the fade into the wind - just hold it up a bit.  I'm going to start working on that unless I see something else here that strikes my fancy.

 

Thanks for indulging me.

[TR1PTIK]

I don't and haven't really gamed GI or even players distance clubs, but the first thing that springs to mind is that it all depends on what it looks like in front of the green and where the pin is at. I wouldn't be afraid to run it up to the green if required and there is the ability to do so. Otherwise, I think I'd just try to hit a normal-ish trajectory if I'm worried it won't hold the green due to lack of spin.

[THEZIPR23]

I went from MP-64's to P790's. When I got fitted for the 790's there was an 1000 rpm difference and 3* launch angle difference, all lower, with them. It was a little frightening to pull the trigger on ordering them due to this. I have played them for just over a year and on the course there is no difference in stopping distance. They stop just as well as the MP-64's. I don't have any experience within the GI category.

My question to you is was this just one shot or are you seeing a pattern?

[PlaidJacket]

4 hours ago, revkev said:

So I went with the knock down shot.  I hit it perfectly or so I though - our greens however are firm and although I hit short of the pin the lack of trajectory and lack of spin because its a GI caused it to carom over the back of the green.  I flushed the ball so it was not me.

A 10 mph wind breeze is normal where I live. I prefer a firm green - not hard but firm. Soft greens are awful IMO. Like playing on a mattress. I too am fairly proficient with the knock-down as playing conditions here almost demand you learn it. I'm a little surprised at your results Rev. Playing into a wind will increase spin and quite dramatically. Perhaps your stroke wasn't as good as you thought?

[Kenny B]

Rev, as you described a R-L wind isn't going to help spin with your normal shot shape.  I am a little surprised you couldn't get there with a 8i.  Maybe it doesn't affect spin as much with higher swing speeds than I have, but that wind, like downwind, seems to kill any spin I can put on the ball.  My approach shots are usually pretty straight; I have better luck getting spin with a L-R wind.

Two years ago I went to the Bridgestone JGR Forged Hybrid Irons.  They are SGI, and I gained a lot of distance over my Ping i20 irons.  But they don't spin quite as much; not that the i20's spun a lot anyway.  I got used to them.  Our greens are quite firm most of the year; sometimes I can't even find my ball mark.  

 

[fixyurdivot]

You guys frequently refer to the "players", "game", "super game" improvement categories when discussing irons.  The only place I've seen a comprehensive list of these groups by mfg./model is MPF database.  Is this generally considered the one stop, final authority on what category irons fall into?

[GB13]

Just now, fixyurdivot said:

You guys frequently refer to the "players", "game", "super game" improvement categories when discussing irons.  The only place I've seen a comprehensive list of these groups by mfg./model is MPF database.  Is this generally considered the one stop, final authority on what category irons fall into?

Not really, I don't read to much into their data, it's a good starting point but the numbers they have can lie. You can usually tell a players from a GI or SGI by looking at, sole width, top line thickness, offset, and blade length. By combining those 4 factors, you can generally tell what category irons fall into. 

[revkev]

@Plaid - maybe but I’m pretty good at assessing how I’ve struck the ball -

I appreciate the feed back - I think it’s something I need to play with a bit to get a feel for the run out. This time of year our greens are firm, it’s why we have a number of pros as members and a bunch of Canadian tour guys come down to prep for their season on our course.


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[cnosil]

You guys frequently refer to the "players", "game", "super game" improvement categories when discussing irons.  The only place I've seen a comprehensive list of these groups by mfg./model is MPF database.  Is this generally considered the one stop, final authority on what category irons fall into?

I don’t think there is a comprehensive list. Even the MGS most wanted list is questioned on why a club is in a particular category. The best way is to look on each OEM site and see how they categorize. I am testing GI irons and can say they the profiles are vastly different between some of the models.