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Bbaum215

Vice vs. Snell

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I made the switch to vice two years ago and have shot some of the best rounds of my life playing the vice pro plus. I have noticed no distance difference between the vice and the taylormade tour preferred x that I played prior to. Want to see if anyone else out there has been playing the vice and your thoughts and how does the vice pro plus compare to the smell mtb black. 

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Tried them both. I'm a Snell fan, so my opinion may be slightly biased. I feel the black spins less off the tee than the pro, and certainly more into the greens. That's not surprising, because snells entire philosophy on ball design starts from the green back. It's softer feeling too.

Of course these are just one man's opinions, I have no other data to back up them up. In the end, it's what works best for you. I continue to play the black.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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I feel both balls perform similarly, but the MTB  Black is more durable. 

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Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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IMO and depending on your skill level it's not going to matter much if any what ball you play as long as....*  Look I'm not an expert golfer by any means but I carry a fairly low single digit hcp. So I'm an OK golfer I suppose and I've been playing for 50 years there about. I can score my best (and worst) rounds with any top quality - urethane cover ball. I do this regularly. Doesn't matter if it's a Snell, Titleist, Chrome, TP, MG, etc., etc. There are still others. They're all very good. For any of us regular hackers you're aren't going to turn into Joe Pro simply by playing a Titleist PV or TP5 for example over a Snell or Vice. Quick story: I recently shot a mid-70's round playing a Titleist Tru-Soft I'd found. It's a budget ball without a urethane cover. How can that be? Would I have broken par if only I'd played a more expensive ball with a urethane cover. How about a Snell or Vice? Seriously doubt it.

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My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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What he said ^^^^^^^^^ .     They're all good.  At our level of play, it boils down to personal preference. I don't think I'm capable of discerning any significant difference between the higher end golf balls (and that includes Vice and Snell).  I might "sense" some slight feel differences off the driver or off the putter because of the softness of the ball, but performance wise probably not.

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Driver: :ping-small: G400 Max 9 degree Alta CB55 Stiff shaft 

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: M6 --- 3 (19 degrees), 4 (22 degrees), and 5 (25 degrees) Atmos shaft R

Irons: :callaway-small:Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW KBS Tour Graphite  70g shafts R

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX-2 52*, 56*, 60* wedges.  Stock shafts.

Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7S

Ball: :Snell: MTB-X

My Photography can be seen at Smugmug

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Personal preference is indeed king here, but so too is price point and I would add (for me at least), skill level.

I "prefer" the MTB Black. It's price-point is more than fair for the quality you receive, and therefore is less painful when one (or several) are lost due to poor play like a 20-hcp like me tends to do. I want a "premium" ball that I can afford simply because I do not to have any doubts about the quality of my equipment holding me back from better scores potentially.

Last season, I was afforded the honor to be among the few selected by MGS to test Snell's MTB Reds and at the time I was fitted for and playing Bridgestone's E6 Soft line. The subsequent testing I performed for the review really opened my eyes to the myriad of differences between all types of golf balls. Along with my continuing findings at the time, @PlaidJacket started a fun little thing with the first annual MGS Hard Rock Challenge that further opened my eyes that there is some true stinkers out there that need to be avoided at all costs. I tested everything I could get my hands on, from Noodles, to Taylormades, to Top Flites, but based all my observations off of the "gold-standard" of the "#1 most lost ball in the world" 😜, the PV1. Even at my particular skill set, it was easy to see, and feel and observe differences like spin, green-holding ability, distance control and durability compared to Titleist's flagship offering. Ultimately for me, I landed on the Snell MTB Black simply because it checked all the boxes that were important to me.

Now in the spirit of this thread, I have to say that I've only had a very short experience with a Vice ball. I found one (a Pro in neon red), and put it to play one day. It was just "OK" for me but my first impression was that this particular model felt hard off of driver and that's off-putting for me since I like a softer feel there. Again...PREFERENCE. I'm sure Vice makes a damn good product, and maybe even one that rivals the big boys, but for me, I "prefer" the Snell MTB Black.


In my       :ping-small: DLX Cart Bag:
Driver
:    :ping-small: G410 SFT, set to 9.5*, Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60, stiff (MGS Official 2019 Tester)
3W:          :ping-small: G-Series SF TEC, set to 16*, Aldila Tour Blue ATX, 65g, stiff
5W:          :ping-small: G400 SFT, set to 19*, Aldila Tour Blue ATX, 65g, stiff
7W:         :ping-small: G410 SFT, set to 22*. Alta CB 65 Red, stiff

Irons:       :ping-small: GMax, Green Dot, 5-PW, Project X Graphite Blue 6.0, 80-90g , stiff
Wedges: :ping-small: Glide 2.0 Stealth, 50* SS, 54* ES & 60*/8 Forged MGS Special from the Wedge Wizard, Green Dot, Alta CB graphite, 84g, stiff
Putter:     :ping-small: Vault 2.0 B60 Copper, 33", black dot w/GP SNSR grip (PING Sigma 2 Fetch under "see-trials")
Ball:       :Snell: MTB BLACK (MGS Official 2018 Tester for the :Snell: MTB RED)
Shoes:     :footjoy-small:  Classics Tour w/Black Widow Softspikes

Disabled Marine Veteran. Semper Fi!

#No apologies, just Play Your Best
#Powertotheplayers

 

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My main issue with balls is I can’t loose them fast enough. I always look and usually find mine plus one or two other ‘pro level balls’ - that’s what I call a ball good enough to be played on the tours. I keep those and toss the crap back.

Doing this has caused me to use about 1 or 2 new sleeves of balls per year. I’ve still got unopened boxes of pro v1x’s from 2010 when I got a few dozen for playing in a few tournaments lol. So I literally cannot lose them fast enough. I hate loosing balls and always look. If you know where to look you’ll always find a few keepers. Look on the right side at roughly 200 yards from the tee and you’ll find top flights. Look at nearly 275 yards and up and the balls get nicer. Look on the left side at this distance and up and almost all balls will be good to keep due to better players using better balls. They hit them further and usually hook is the shot shape better players miss with.

Sorry I can’t comment on the balls. Only vice and snell balls I’ve used have been found. Lol. I will say it seems I find a lot more vice balls vs Snell


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Ben S
Hailing from N Aurora IL

WITB:
Putter: Mizuno by Bettinardi BC1 w/SuperStroke MidSlim 2.0 Flamed finish (1 Degree)
Driver: Ping G – Mitsubishi Diamana Blue 73 X (10.5 Degree)
3 Wood : Callaway Epic Flash – Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 75 S (15.5 Degree)
3 Hybrid: Tour Edge CBX 119 – Project X EvenFlow Black 85 S (18 Degree)
3 Hybrid: Ping G – Mitsubishi Tensei CK Pro Blue HY 86 S (19 Degree)
4 – GW: Ping i210 - Oban CT-115 X (22.5 - 50 Degrees)
SW: Titleist SM7 S Grind - Tour Chrome - Stock S200 (54 Degree)
LW: Titleist SM7 D Grind - Tour Chrome - Stock S200 (58 Degree)
All Grips:  Winn Dri-Tec Midsize - Gray/Blue w/ 2 extra wraps low hand
Customizing:
Lime Green/Hot Pink Custom Paintfill - all clubs
White ferrules with Blue Stripes from Cell-Parts.net
Irons fitted & built by True Spec Golf
Custom Headcovers from Sunfish Golf
PING White DLX Cart Bag

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14 hours ago, Bbaum215 said:

I made the switch to vice two years ago and have shot some of the best rounds of my life playing the vice pro plus. I have noticed no distance difference between the vice and the taylormade tour preferred x that I played prior to. Want to see if anyone else out there has been playing the vice and your thoughts and how does the vice pro plus compare to the smell mtb black. 

Currently playing the MTB Black and I'll be going back to Vice as I prefer the feel. Performance is very similar, but feel is noticeably different - at least to me. It's not that the Snell feels bad, but it's not my preferred feel plain and simple. My best advice to you is that if you think you want to try it, give it a shot and if you don't like it you can go back when deplete your stock. Both are great balls IMO and I will say that the finish on the Snell is better than that of the Vice. If you play a white Vice golf ball, you know how easily they stain due to the flat finish. The Snell has a clear coat on it and looks better for a longer period of time.


Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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On 3/14/2019 at 11:36 AM, B81Smith said:

My main issue with balls is I can’t loose them fast enough. I always look and usually find mine plus one or two other ‘pro level balls’ - that’s what I call a ball good enough to be played on the tours. I keep those and toss the crap back.

Doing this has caused me to use about 1 or 2 new sleeves of balls per year. I’ve still got unopened boxes of pro v1x’s from 2010 when I got a few dozen for playing in a few tournaments lol. So I literally cannot lose them fast enough. I hate loosing balls and always look. If you know where to look you’ll always find a few keepers. Look on the right side at roughly 200 yards from the tee and you’ll find top flights. Look at nearly 275 yards and up and the balls get nicer. Look on the left side at this distance and up and almost all balls will be good to keep due to better players using better balls. They hit them further and usually hook is the shot shape better players miss with.

Sorry I can’t comment on the balls. Only vice and snell balls I’ve used have been found. Lol. I will say it seems I find a lot more vice balls vs Snell


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a highly accurate depiction of where you find golf ball on a course! 

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Occasionally played the Vice Pro and Pro Plus, but always ended up playing the Vice Tour. I'm not sure why but it suited my game more than the "pro" options. I love the aesthetic of their equipment, but recently found great luck with purchasing used practice Titleist balls and haven't looked back (full disclosure, I'm a bit of a Titleist fanboy)


:taylormade-small: SIM /  M1 Hybrid

:titelist-small:  913 F 3W / 716 AP1 4-PW / Vokey Wedges / Pro V1

:cameron-small: Newport 2 Refinished

 

📸https://www.instagram.com/samej_g/

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Enjoyed how straight the Vice is for me, but don't like the distance loss. Same with Snell for me. 


:cobra-small:King LTD 9*, Accra FX100 M3 45"/ King F8 9*, Accra FX200 M4 44" + 15g
,:cobra-small:King LTD 13*, Accra FX100 M3 42.5"
:cobra-small:F9+ 17.5*, Accra FX100 M3 40.5"
:cobra-small:King F8 OL 4-PW, Rogue Pro Iron 75 Regular 36"
:cobra-small:
King F8 OL GW-LW Rogue Pro Iron 85 Regular 36"
Lajosi-White2.jpg.2c9fd63a6e850be7bbf7177771c5ed8e.jpg Custom DD201WB Armlock (450g, 8*, 72* Upright, 40"), BGT Stability Shaft
:bridgestone-small: 2020 Tour B RX
 

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Start by playing the one that feels best to you when putting!  After that, determine what you like as far as spin around the greens.  Don't worry about the driver.  The short game is where balls matter most.  You don't want to play a ball that spins a lot off the wedges one round and then play a ball that rolls out the next.  You can't go wrong here.  


   Driver:  :callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero Hzdrs Smoke x flex 70g

3 Wood:  :titelist-small: 917 w/ Diamana Whiteboard stiff

5 Wood : :callaway-small: Epic Flash 18* Hzdrs Smoke stiff

4 Hybrid: :callaway-small:  Apex w/Kuro Kage stiff

     Irons:  :callaway-small: 5-7  Apex forged 19 w/ Modus 120 X

                         9-A Apex Pro 19 w/ Modus 120 X

Wedges:  :callaway-small: MD5 52&56 Jaws Dynamic Gold wedge flex

    Putter: :titelist-small: Scotty Cameron Del Mar 34"

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On 3/14/2019 at 9:51 AM, CarlH said:

I don't think I'm capable of discerning any significant difference between the higher end golf balls (and that includes Vice and Snell)

I agree with you, sort of.

Last year I tested the Snell MTB Red. Going in to the test I had concerns about whether a hacker like me could tell the difference (granted, my gamer at the time was an NXT Tour S, not a premium ball). Around the greens, I could absolutely tell the difference. Full clubs? Not as much, but there were some trends that, if I had more data, could have become significant, even with my swing.


Driver: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 9.5* Recoil 460ES cut to 45"
3W: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 15* Recoil 460ES
3H, 4H: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES
4-PW:  :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105
AW: :mizuno-small:S5 52*
SW: :cleveland-small: 588
LW: :callaway-small: MD3
Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Marxman
Bag: :bridgestone-small: Tour B Stand Bag
Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star
Pushcart: BigMax iQ+

:SuperSpeed: Tester
Starting Driver Speed on PRGR Monitor: 102 mph

Final Driver Speed (end of Level 2): 120 mph

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Just my 2c but having played a bunch of different balls from Pro-V1/V1x, Chrome soft/x, a whole vice trial pack, TP5, B330, Z-star. Without doing a full fitting in a bay to look at ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate differences it really boils down to feel. At my skill level I can't honestly tell you if one of those balls spun any more or less or which ones carried further or ballooned less than any of the others but I can tell you which ones I liked and didn't care for. For me it just boiled down to what feels pretty good, does what I expect, and wont cause me to spend 10 minutes looking for it in the trees because a weekend round is slow enough already. 


Driver: Callaway Rogue - Project X HZRDUS Yellow, 6.0, 63g

Fairway: Callaway Epic 3 wood, Rogue MAX stiff, 75g

4-6 Iron: Mizuno JPX-850 - Project X 5.5 

7-PW: Mizuno JPX-850 Forged - Project X 5.5

Wedges: Mizuno MP-T5 (50, 54), Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 60 ES

Putter: Odyssey Marxman, Currently tested and kept Golf Pride Tour SNSR Contour Pro 140cc grip

 

 

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1 hour ago, MaxEntropy said:

I agree with you, sort of.

Last year I tested the Snell MTB Red. Going in to the test I had concerns about whether a hacker like me could tell the difference (granted, my gamer at the time was an NXT Tour S, not a premium ball). Around the greens, I could absolutely tell the difference. Full clubs? Not as much, but there were some trends that, if I had more data, could have become significant, even with my swing.

Yes, and this is how balls should be tested....from the green out.  There are subtle differences between premium balls (ProV, TP5, B330, etc) on the green and how the ball reacts on the green is significant in your game.  Distance differences off the tee with premium balls is relatively insignificant.  When selecting golf balls, find the one that reacts around the green best for you.  

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Driver: :ping-small: G400 Max 9 degree Alta CB55 Stiff shaft 

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: M6 --- 3 (19 degrees), 4 (22 degrees), and 5 (25 degrees) Atmos shaft R

Irons: :callaway-small:Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW KBS Tour Graphite  70g shafts R

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX-2 52*, 56*, 60* wedges.  Stock shafts.

Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7S

Ball: :Snell: MTB-X

My Photography can be seen at Smugmug

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... Like many of the new mail order companies, Vice buys generic balls from a Taiwanese manufacturer that sells the exact same ball to others and they are happy to stamp any name on them. This is capitalism at work and they make a really good golf ball. But please don't compare any of these balls to Snell. Dean has put in the work and as most know co-designed some of the most popular balls ever made including the original ProV1 and TM Tour Preferred. So for a few dollars more and in some instances the same price, I am always going to support Snell over the other middle men. Depending on your skill level, there may be no discernible difference in performance for your game but there certainly might be a difference in consistency from ball to ball. 

... I played with a kid that won a few times on the Florida satellite tours. He hit the original Kirkland ball and loved it so he tested a dozen to see how they stacked up. 10 balls were virtually the same in spin, launch and compression. But 2 balls were lower in compression, had different spin and launch characteristics and this kid was certainly good enough to suffer from those differences. He went back to his ProV1's, that he got for free of course. 

... This was an eye opener for me, as I loved the original Kirkland and still do. I have no reservation playing them for fun but would not play one competitively. Nor would I play any of the other mail order balls in competition. But I would play Snells because I know Dean is doing the R&D, improving his ball where he see's a chance to tweak that performance even a little and I know every ball will be exactly the same.   

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Atmos TS Blue 6s
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 7s
Utility:   TaylorMade UDi 18*  ... HZRDUS Black 6.0 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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1 minute ago, chisag said:

... Like many of the new mail order companies, Vice buys generic balls from a Taiwanese manufacturer that sells the exact same ball to others and they are happy to stamp any name on them. This is capitalism at work and they make a really good golf ball. But please don't compare any of these balls to Snell. Dean has put in the work and as most know co-designed some of the most popular balls ever made including the original ProV1 and TM Tour Preferred. So for a few dollars more and in some instances the same price, I am always going to support Snell over the other middle men. Depending on your skill level, there may be no discernible difference in performance for your game but there certainly might be a difference in consistency from ball to ball. 

... I played with a kid that won a few times on the Florida satellite tours. He hit the original Kirkland ball and loved it so he tested a dozen to see how they stacked up. 10 balls were virtually the same in spin, launch and compression. But 2 balls were lower in compression, had different spin and launch characteristics and this kid was certainly good enough to suffer from those differences. He went back to his ProV1's, that he got for free of course. 

... This was an eye opener for me, as I loved the original Kirkland and still do. I have no reservation playing them for fun but would not play one competitively. Nor would I play any of the other mail order balls in competition. But I would play Snells because I know Dean is doing the R&D, improving his ball where he see's a chance to tweak that performance even a little and I know every ball will be exactly the same.   

This.

Snell is a GOLF company

Vice, Cut and others like them are marketing and distribution companies.  Nothing more.

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In my :mizuno-small: BR-D4 Stand Bag

:ping-small: G410 LST 9* LST VA Nemesys 65FIVE
:ping-small: G410 LST 14.5* VA Vylyn 75FIVE
:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X
:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 Tour AD 95X
:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW Oban CT 115 X(-)
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 49F - 54S - 59D
Putter ?????
:bridgestone-small: Tour B X
 
SuperSpeed Forum Tester
Initial Driver Speed on Provided Monitor: 109 MPH
 

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So after starting this thread I have actually bought and played the mtb black this year and I can tell a difference and am sold on snell being a superior ball in every category. Mainly the ball lasts longer and does get scuffed or nicked up as quick as the vice would for me. I also think that has lead to it being more reliable shot to shot. 

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On 3/28/2019 at 1:04 PM, chisag said:

... Like many of the new mail order companies, Vice buys generic balls from a Taiwanese manufacturer that sells the exact same ball to others and they are happy to stamp any name on them. This is capitalism at work and they make a really good golf ball. But please don't compare any of these balls to Snell. Dean has put in the work and as most know co-designed some of the most popular balls ever made including the original ProV1 and TM Tour Preferred. So for a few dollars more and in some instances the same price, I am always going to support Snell over the other middle men. Depending on your skill level, there may be no discernible difference in performance for your game but there certainly might be a difference in consistency from ball to ball. 

... I played with a kid that won a few times on the Florida satellite tours. He hit the original Kirkland ball and loved it so he tested a dozen to see how they stacked up. 10 balls were virtually the same in spin, launch and compression. But 2 balls were lower in compression, had different spin and launch characteristics and this kid was certainly good enough to suffer from those differences. He went back to his ProV1's, that he got for free of course. 

... This was an eye opener for me, as I loved the original Kirkland and still do. I have no reservation playing them for fun but would not play one competitively. Nor would I play any of the other mail order balls in competition. But I would play Snells because I know Dean is doing the R&D, improving his ball where he see's a chance to tweak that performance even a little and I know every ball will be exactly the same.   

I agree with your comments about the Vice Ball and Snell.

It is my understanding that the original Kirkland 4-piece ball was made by Nassau Golf Co which is the same plant that makes the Snell ball. So one might expect quality control to be similar between the Kirkland original and Snell balls. 


Driver:    PING  G400 LST 8.5* - Fubuki ZT

Wood:   PING  G Stretch 13* - PING Tour 65

Hybrids:   PING  G 17* + 22* - PING Alta

Irons:    :callaway-small: Apex CF16 - Project X S - 5-P

Wedges:     :cleveland-small:  RTX-3 50* MG, 56* LG, 60* LG

Putter:  SeeMore Mini Giant Tour LTD #038

 

 

 

 

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