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Shankster

A Tour Players Entourage

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I know Mr. Chamblee can strike some nerves sometimes, but the man had a point on Rory after round 3.

 

Why is it that the players coach, agent, strength coach, Mother’s brothers brother, caddies best bro, and what ever else’s cousin is out there during their warm ups.

 

The best players in the game have all these people pulling them in different directions. Is it good for them?

 

Did Ben, Jack, Arnie, Old Tom have 20 people standing there going over data?

 

I’ve been reading a lot about Seve and how when he tried to get too technical and his game started to fall apart.

 

At what point do you just leave talent alone?

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Just a player and caddie doesn’t seem to be how it works anymore. You will see it across all tours; almost like the players don’t trust anything they do.

Swing and putting coach for last minute fixes, caddie to clean clubs, Agent for those last minute deals, family for moral support, club sponsors to get and tweak equipment.

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Just a player and caddie doesn’t seem to be how it works anymore. You will see it across all tours; almost like the players don’t trust anything they do.

Swing and putting coach for last minute fixes, caddie to clean clubs, Agent for those last minute deals, family for moral support, club sponsors to get and tweak equipment.


I get it a little bit. But it seems like it is getting more and more.

Tour trucks have been there for ever. Family makes sense.

It’s their job, looking out for number 1 I get it. Seems like there are too many hands involved in some of them. But what do I know.
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4 minutes ago, Shankster said:

 


I get it a little bit. But it seems like it is getting more and more.

Tour trucks have been there for ever. Family makes sense.

It’s their job, looking out for number 1 I get it. Seems like there are too many hands involved in some of them. But what do I know.

 

May be that's why I can't bring my handicap down...too many hands involved...mainly just two...mine. 😉

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This has been a topic of conversation between my brother and I for at least the past decade.  It's been fascinating to watch regardless of sport.  The ESPN 30 for 30 "Broke" goes into some detail about how posse's can liquidate a players assets during the "hanger-on" period as well.

I don't like crowds of people anyway.  My "circle" hasn't grown or changed very much since I was 6 years old.  I couldn't fathom allowing that many people in my ear.

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I could certainly deal with having a swing coach at my beckon whenever I wanted one....now if I could just win the lottery because those odds are better than me ever winning a golf tournament that pays the big bucks 🙂

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For those who haven’t played in high level competitions, you cannot comprehend how utterly alone a player can feel out there. A crisis of confidence, muscle tweak, homesickness, bad dream, etc, can be the difference between cashing a check and losing a pile. If you believe players don’t see benefit from every single individual they invite inside the ropes then you don’t understand the razor thin margins at the top of this game. And convenient as it may be for your argument, assuming those individuals within a player’s staff are “pulling them in different directions” is completely baseless. Modern purses/endorsement contracts create an entirely different cost/benefit analysis than the one facing players in the past. Also, in my opinion, Chamblee is just the worst.

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I see your points DLK. By pulling them in different directions I was meaning changing swing coaches often. It might not be as often as I think but listening to the Ferhty podcast with Tommy he talked about getting too technical and went back to his old coach.

You make valid points though.

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2 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I see your points DLK. By pulling them in different directions I was meaning changing swing coaches often. It might not be as often as I think but listening to the Ferhty podcast with Tommy he talked about getting too technical and went back to his old coach.

You make valid points though.

I do see the point behind changing swing coaches though. Sometimes it helps to get a fresh set of eyes on your swing. Sticking with the same coach, the coach might get so used to seeing a specific swing flaw you have, and end up just ignoring it. That significantly hinders your ability to continue improving with that coach. You need to find coaches that think similarly and have similar methods, but sticking with one coach can get you stuck in a rut. 

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7 minutes ago, downlowkey said:

For those who haven’t played in  high level competitions, you cannot comprehend how utterly alone a player can feel out there. A crisis of confidence, muscle tweak, homesickness, bad dream, etc, can be the difference between cashing a check and losing a pile. If you believe players don’t see benefit from every single individual they invite inside the ropes then you don’t understand the razor thin margins at the top of this game. And convenient as it may be for your argument, assuming those individuals within a player’s staff are “pulling them in different directions” is completely baseless. Modern purses/endorsement contracts create an entirely different cost/benefit analysis than the one facing players in the past. Also, in my opinion, Chamblee is just the worst.

I thought it was funny that Rory told those guys that he has them muted in the clubhouse before the round.

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Plus this is an “opinion piece”.

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@Shankster - things just change - people have changed - whose to say whether this way or Hogan's way was better?  It's different for sure but it is what it is - I try to ignore it and watch the golf because what worked for my generation won't work for this one.  My son and I had a lengthy chat about that over some beers yesterday.  Actually he thanked me for being more understanding of millenials than most boomers - he wanted to know if I were at the tail end and so I exhibit characterics of another generation group (I'm not, I'm a boomer through and through it just manifests itself differently and because of my position I need to work with all the generations)

Thanks for defending our right to watch the golf and to an opinion BTW!

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Not saying anyone’s way is better. I played horseshoes at the world championship level at 8-17 years old. I had me, myself and I. I was my swing coach, strength and conditioning coach, mental coach. I placed 1st once and had many runner ups, and third places.

Just wondering at what point does someone say enough is enough?

I understand the want to be great, I just wonder if sometimes it’s all over analyzed like everything else these days. In the end, a golf swing is still a golf swing.

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26 minutes ago, downlowkey said:

For those who haven’t played in high level competitions, you cannot comprehend how utterly alone a player can feel out there. A crisis of confidence, muscle tweak, homesickness, bad dream, etc, can be the difference between cashing a check and losing a pile. If you believe players don’t see benefit from every single individual they invite inside the ropes then you don’t understand the razor thin margins at the top of this game. And convenient as it may be for your argument, assuming those individuals within a player’s staff are “pulling them in different directions” is completely baseless. Modern purses/endorsement contracts create an entirely different cost/benefit analysis than the one facing players in the past. Also, in my opinion, Chamblee is just the worst.

For the record, my brother played basketball at a pretty high level.  Some of his AAU teammates were Antawn Jamison, Kenyan Weaks and Titus Ivory.  Based solely on our experiences, posse's can certainly be everything you mention.  They can also be "hangers-on" that ultimately pull the player in directions that shorten careers and empty wallets.  In the world of golf, Ty Tryon and Anthony Kim are pretty clear examples.  

It's all relative to who the posse is and what their ultimate agenda is.  And lets face it, everyone has an agenda!

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. In the end, a golf swing is still a golf swing.


While a god swing us a golf swing, as someone already pointed out, these individuals provide a comfort level and help the plate remain calm while millions of dollars are up for grabs in a weekly basis.
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7 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Not saying anyone’s way is better. I played horseshoes at the world championship level at 8-17 years old. I had me, myself and I. I was my swing coach, strength and conditioning coach, mental coach. I placed 1st once and had many runner ups, and third places.

Just wondering at what point does someone say enough is enough?

I understand the want to be great, I just wonder if sometimes it’s all over analyzed like everything else these days. In the end, a golf swing is still a golf swing.

My personal take, is swing coach and caddie. I would want my game, especially during a tournament, to be as simple as possible. Just go and hit the ball, just like a Saturday round with my buddies. If you have talent, you'll play better than those guys who get in their own head. 

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While a god swing us a golf swing, as someone already pointed out, these individuals provide a comfort level and help the plate remain calm while millions of dollars are up for grabs in a weekly basis.


I understand that part. Sometimes that doesn’t even work though. Golf is one of the most individual sports there is. Yes, you have your team around you, but you can’t rely on the backup to come in if something is off on Sunday. So that “team” can do what for you mid round besides your caddie, maybe pop in on a few holes? Not like they can huddle up and go over the play with 8 other people on each hole, they’d never finish.

I don’t disagree with having a team. Teams make things happen, I know, my job is 1000% team oriented, without every piece it doesn’t work.
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16 minutes ago, sixcat said:

For the record, my brother played basketball at a pretty high level.  Some of his AAU teammates were Antawn Jamison, Kenyan Weaks and Titus Ivory.  Based solely on our experiences, posse's can certainly be everything you mention.  They can also be "hangers-on" that ultimately pull the player in directions that shorten careers and empty wallets.  In the world of golf, Ty Tryon and Anthony Kim are pretty clear examples.  

It's all relative to who the posse is and what their ultimate agenda is.  And lets face it, everyone has an agenda!

Basketball players already have a coach, asst coaches, strength & conditioning coaches, PTs, sports psychologists, media handlers, etc supplied simply by virtue of their spot on the roster. So other than a personal manager, I’ve never understood the need for ball players to employ a large posse. With the legitimate counsel positions already supplied, one of the main responsibilities of subsequent posse hires often entails lining up fresh trim at the club. I think the pitfalls of pursuing that lifestyle are self evident. In general, viewed against pro basketball, players on the PGA Tour have very different hiring practices.

AK’s main hurdle was clinical depression (hopefully he’s doing better these days). In my opinion, Ty Tryon’s natural swing tendencies were never allowed to fully develop before the gurus got their hooks in him and started tinkering. In my opinion both are outliers rather than clear examples of entourage influenza.

And for what it’s worth, where the foundation of a relationship is concerned, I don’t believe “agenda” is the most accurate descriptor for individuals who truly want what’s best for their friend/spouse/employer.

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While we are on the topic. Who has the largest entourage?

DJ?

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8 minutes ago, Shankster said:

While we are on the topic. Who has the largest entourage?

DJ?

I'm guessing the personal doc, dietician, personal chef, nanny and RV drivers (they work in shifts for long hauls) may move J Day to the front of that line.

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