Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Shankster

A Tour Players Entourage

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

The thing to realize about some of this - at least as far as pre-round warm-ups go - is that a coach or agent isn't likely there just for one player. They're there for all their players and maybe (probably) aren't involved at all in the warm-up. They're just there to shoot the breeze, brown nose, and lose their lower jaw like the rest of us when these guy flush it ball after ball. The rest of the time, I think they're of far greater benefit than we often give them credit for. Think about how today's game is played and how much scrutiny and pressure players have to handle on a daily basis thanks to a rapidly changing news cycle via the press and social media. Guys today actually have to be athletic (mostly anyway), and they certainly don't want or need to be thinking about what the general public thinks about them because of something they said in a press conference after they were exhausted from a long day of grinding on the course. A player's entourage exists to allow them to think of golf and little else. They don't have to think much about workouts or diets because they have people that do it for them - the players just go to the gym and say, "tell me what to do". I think it's good for the players to give their "team" credit where credit is due. It doesn't take anything away from what the golfer has done for himself, it just shows respect for the people that helped him get there. I don't see anything wrong with that - it's better than the alternative of, "I'm the greatest because me..."

Edited by TR1PTIK
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, downlowkey said:

Basketball players already have a coach, asst coaches, strength & conditioning coaches, PTs, sports psychologists, media handlers, etc supplied simply by virtue of their spot on the roster. So other than a personal manager, I’ve never understood the need for ball players to employ a large posse. With the legitimate counsel positions already supplied, one of the main responsibilities of subsequent posse hires often entails lining up fresh trim at the club. I think the pitfalls of pursuing that lifestyle are self evident. In general, viewed against pro basketball, players on the PGA Tour have very different hiring practices.

AK’s main hurdle was clinical depression (hopefully he’s doing better these days). In my opinion, Ty Tryon’s natural swing tendencies were never allowed to fully develop before the gurus got their hooks in him and started tinkering. In my opinion both are outliers rather than clear examples of entourage influenza.

And for what it’s worth, where the foundation of a relationship is concerned, I don’t believe “agenda” is the most accurate descriptor for individuals who truly want what’s best for their friend/spouse/employer.

Agreed, basketball and golf are two different crowds so to speak.  But the premise still remains consistent regardless of sport.  The more voices you have in your ear, the more clutter you have in your life.  The more clutter generally results in less consistency and more distraction.  How often do we hear Tour players discussing the utter chaos involved in getting tickets, travel, lodging, and other accommodations for everyone thinking they are entitled to something from the player?  

Personally, I believe this is why Rickie, Jordan and JT travel and stay together so much.  Strength in numbers for a multitude of reasons.

As for AK, clinical depression may have played a role but he was infamous for the posse he traveled with while still playing on Tour.  That posse was also infamous for the partying they did as well.  Tryon's coaching issues aside, his parents viewed him as a meal ticket.  Their "agenda" was to use their son in a twisted "get rich quick" scheme.  Similar stories for Patrick Reed and Sean O'Hair, although it didn't completely derail their careers before they were able to break away.  Unfortunately, too many parents try to live their unfulfilled childhood dreams through their children.  It's a sad sight but one that occurs far too often.

Which speaks directly to "agenda."  Those closest to us, family and friends in particular, are often the one's with the biggest agenda!  Family and friends can be the biggest support system as well.  I can't deny that.  But very few of us have the wherewithal to distinguish between the two, especially when we are teenagers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coach to keep an eye on things...there’s not an amateur who wouldn’t mind having a coach in the practice range before a round.

manager is making sure the player has everything they need, etc 

Iirc start of tournament day the ones allowed on the range are limited to certain people. Even so having family and friends there before one tees off can help ease the nerves. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

While we are on the topic. Who has the largest entourage?

 

DJ?

I think perhaps Paulina?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, sixcat said:

Agreed, basketball and golf are two different crowds so to speak.  But the premise still remains consistent regardless of sport.  The more voices you have in your ear, the more clutter you have in your life.  The more clutter generally results in less consistency and more distraction.  How often do we hear Tour players discussing the utter chaos involved in getting tickets, travel, lodging, and other accommodations for everyone thinking they are entitled to something from the player?  

Personally, I believe this is why Rickie, Jordan and JT travel and stay together so much.  Strength in numbers for a multitude of reasons.

As for AK, clinical depression may have played a role but he was infamous for the posse he traveled with while still playing on Tour.  That posse was also infamous for the partying they did as well.  Tryon's coaching issues aside, his parents viewed him as a meal ticket.  Their "agenda" was to use their son in a twisted "get rich quick" scheme.  Similar stories for Patrick Reed and Sean O'Hair, although it didn't completely derail their careers before they were able to break away.  Unfortunately, too many parents try to live their unfulfilled childhood dreams through their children.  It's a sad sight but one that occurs far too often.

Which speaks directly to "agenda."  Those closest to us, family and friends in particular, are often the one's with the biggest agenda!  Family and friends can be the biggest support system as well.  I can't deny that.  But very few of us have the wherewithal to distinguish between the two, especially when we are teenagers!

I think career trajectory substantially impacts both the way support networks are assembled and cash flow is managed in those respective sports. Playing status on the tour offers potential long term returns but big money on the front end (signing bonus, contract guarantees, endorsements) is incredibly rare. A bunch of guys on tour have early career sponsors (debtors) that own a piece of their earnings, for life. On top of that, you’re on the road all the time, on your own dime. Don’t get me wrong, it can be a very cushy life, but the wad Phil carries around is the exception, not the rule. It’s becoming less so but it’s also the exception for players to come straight out of college and straight into full playing status. There is obviously a major income bump that comes following their first win but the average golf career (earnings) follows a normal distribution by comparison.

I’m not trying to say either formula is right or wrong but the difference seems to come down to cash flow and boundaries. With guaranteed income rare, it’s irresponsible for the overwhelming majority of tour players to keep a deep payroll. If you’re cutting someone a paycheck, that makes you the man. And the man needs to set proper boundaries. Maybe the guys on tour have better hiring practices or perhaps they do a little better job setting boundaries (defining scope of work). Perhaps that’s the result of a more (relatively) normalized career trajectory.

In any case, while each of these sports have outliers, the typically gradual build of a professional golf career seems to make golf the exception to the rule in  professional sporting. As @TR1PTIK eloquently conveyed, professional golfers tend to only hire new team members to handle increasing responsibilities. And they are employed solely to simplify and support in various specialized capacities. The dietician is not offering insight on Par 5 strategy, the nanny is not talking about swing plane, the manager isn’t talking about squat programs - they all play their roles so the pro need only show up, ready to play. A toxic entourage can bring down anyone but on the PGA Tour, I just don’t currently see much evidence to suggest more staff, more problems (poor play).

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point was missed by a mile. Rory was out there with his caddie working on his swing. No coach, no performance doodads, just him, the dirt, golf ball and golf clubs, and his caddie... he eventually went on to win the tournament.

He is really growing on me as a golfer and a role model for my kids for golf.

They obviously need their circle of people around them, much like soldiers do when they deploy.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
no performance doodads,.


I am assuming a performance doodad is a training aid. Most players skip those on tournament days during warmup, but they pretty much all use some kind of training aid during practice days. Putting greens are full of them and most use at least an alignment stick for full swing.

As for the group of people with the player, it also varies between tournament and practice days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cnosil said:

I am assuming a performance doodad is a training aid

I think Alan may have been referencing the launch monitors a lot of pros are utilizing on the practice tee these days. Like the one DJ regularly used to his detriment dialing in wedges while becoming #1 in the world. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tiger was #1 in the world for several years without a launch monitor.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tiger was #1 in the world for several years without a launch monitor.

Players before tiger had their caddies shagging golf balls they were hitting. Just because someone was successful doing something a particular way doesn’t mean that is the right was for everyone or that it is better.

People rode horses before there were cars
People travelled on the ground before planes
People wrote letters before there was email.

I understand your point but in every occupation things change to provide more efficiency. Ultimately you have to do what it takes to make yourself successful and you have to follow your own path and not someone else’s.


  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The intent of the team is what matters.  I know from listening to interviews with J Day, he has a big team because of all of the obligations he has to sponsors as well as his family. Having a team mentality of everyone doing their job so he can focus on golf alone makes his experience better.

I personally would take this tactic as I don't trust myself to be the best decision maker when it would come to dividing my time between obligations to sponsors, or working on my game. Having dedicated people to help construct a schedule, coordinate travel, plan down time, etc. would eliminate friction and allow me to focus on just golf.

It's the same tactic that some CEO's deploy.  Bring in a team to help with the things that they are not good at to allow them the time to triple down on doing the things they are good at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same as iPads, smart lights, smart cars, smart phones, smart watches, smart refrigerators, smart stoves. Just a distraction to what is actually going on around you.

I like my Jetson’s style stuff as much as anyone else, but I’ve found it distracting. I use my phone to get yardages for stuff that I would just use the yardage markers for.

Turning into robots.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Same as iPads, smart lights, smart cars, smart phones, smart watches, smart refrigerators, smart stoves. Just a distraction to what is actually going on around you.

I like my Jetson’s style stuff as much as anyone else, but I’ve found it distracting. I use my phone to get yardages for stuff that I would just use the yardage markers for.

Turning into robots.

I was in a music store in Winston Salem, North Carolina on Saturday buying my daughter a saxophone for high school band.  There were maybe a dozen people at or near the register area.  Someone's phone made that three-toned notification sound made famous by Apple products.  Every single one of those dozen or so people immediately grabbed their phones, including myself.

Slaves to the machine, we are!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Same as iPads, smart lights, smart cars, smart phones, smart watches, smart refrigerators, smart stoves. Just a distraction to what is actually going on around you.

I like my Jetson’s style stuff as much as anyone else, but I’ve found it distracting. I use my phone to get yardages for stuff that I would just use the yardage markers for.

Turning into robots.

You're right about that. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was in a music store in Winston Salem, North Carolina on Saturday buying my daughter a saxophone for high school band.  There were maybe a dozen people at or near the register area.  Someone's phone made that three-toned notification sound made famous by Apple products.  Every single one of those dozen or so people immediately grabbed their phones, including myself.
Slaves to the machine, we are!


My friends wife told me in order to get his attention she had to bounce around on the floor and make a buzzing sound.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just too many distractions. Swing coach, caddy and family. And family can chill home if they want until it looks like I have a shot at winning. Then they best get their asses to the course. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Charli said:

Just too many distractions. Swing coach, caddy and family. And family can chill home if they want until it looks like I have a shot at winning. Then they best get their asses to the course. 

So you want them to scramble at the last minute to get a flight to get to an event the golfer might have a chance at winning which then has the golfer distracted because he’s worrying if the family got on the plane, had any issues and so on instead of being there all week or for several weeks at a time. 

Having family there can help the golfer relax both during and after the round.

theres not an amateur golfer I know and most of not everyone on this forum would be happy to have their coach on the range with them.

managers and other entourage members are there to do things for the golfer to help them not be distracted, coordinate scheduling, flights, lodging and so on. Not really distractions imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was meant for more of a Local tournament something they could drive to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ll side with the “need ‘em” crowd. For years my biggest leadership fault was I failed to delegate stuff. An Army General once told me, “if you are doing something someone else should be doing or could be doing you are probably not doing what you are suppose to be doing.” The greater one’s responsibility the more you need the help of others to fully execute that responsibility.

 

I am sure there are exceptions but for the most part professional Golfers come from families that are very comfortable financially. They don’t generally have the type of “hangers on” trying to ride the gravy train because their entourage comes from their same background of financial stability. The people who make up the “Rose” brand are there to maximize that Brand. By doing all the little things that we take for granted Justin Rose can fully focus on his role in maximizing his brand.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...