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MGS Golf Ball Test


Golf Ball Test Results...Pre-Reveal  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Which brand do you think performs the best in MGS Golf Ball Test to be revealed Monday? (I have no idea what balls are being tested but this is my best bet)

    • Bridgestone (e6, e12, Tour B X, Tour B XS, Tour B RX)
      11
    • Callaway (Chrome Soft, Chrome Soft X, ERC Soft)
      1
    • Cut (Red, Green, Blue, Black, Brown, Mauve, Burgundy, Candy Apple, Cyan, Golden Rod)
      0
    • Maxfli (Tour, Tour x)
      0
    • Mizuno (RB Tour, RB Tour X)
      0
    • Snell (MTB Red, MTB Black, MTB X)
      11
    • Srixon (Q Star, Z Star, Z Star XV, LGBTQ Star)
      4
    • TaylorMade (TP5, TP5x, Project (a), Project (s))
      8
    • Titleist (Pro V1, Pro V1x, AVX, Tour Soft, Velocity, DT TruSoft)
      15
    • Vice (Drive, Pro, Pro Plus, Pro Soft)
      5
    • Volvik (I don't even know if they're in the test)
      0
    • Wilson (DUO Soft, DUO U, FG Tour)
      0
    • Other
      1

This poll is closed to new votes

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  • Poll closed on 04/29/2019 at 10:00 PM

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29 minutes ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

 

Maybe I misunderstood but isn't that the point of the entire cut-it-open project?

Ignore the cover, cut it open, see what's on the inside and compare what you found; if you found something nearly identical turn it over and see who makes it.  Is one being sold at a lower price point?  Why?  Are you justifying their marketing by paying more for the pricier ball?  that money has to come from somewhere, right?

Yes it is. But why bother to show us identical golf balls if only one is available for purchase? The point is moot.

The more we've discussed this, the more I think their decision to select those three specific golf balls simply stems from that Acushnet lawsuit to illustrate what goes on, but it's not a good representation of current practices if they aren't using current models. At least that's how I look at that. Show me who's doing this NOW. Who's charging less/more NOW? Who's falsely claiming a white label ball as their own NOW?

The simple answer would be Vice, but until they've completely and objectively proven that Vice's statements are false, then the marketing claims are still at the very least plausible.

It's fun and intriguing to look at older models and see what's happened in the past, but we can't change the past. I'm not going to be upset about a company's past sins (so-to-speak) unless they have refused to change and continue on in the same fashion today.

EDIT:

I should note - I'm not saying I believe Vice's marketing claims, but if you're going to open the book then close it when you're done! Don't call them out and then leave room for them to spin it differently.

Edited by TR1PTIK

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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42 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Yes it is. But why bother to show us identical golf balls if only one is available for purchase? The point is moot.

The more we've discussed this, the more I think their decision to select those three specific golf balls simply stems from that Acushnet lawsuit to illustrate what goes on, but it's not a good representation of current practices if they aren't using current models. At least that's how I look at that. Show me who's doing this NOW. Who's charging less/more NOW? Who's falsely claiming a white label ball as their own NOW?

The simple answer would be Vice, but until they've completely and objectively proven that Vice's statements are false, then the marketing claims are still at the very least plausible.

It's fun and intriguing to look at older models and see what's happened in the past, but we can't change the past. I'm not going to be upset about a company's past sins (so-to-speak) unless they have refused to change and continue on in the same fashion today.

 

... It shows that Vice is selling a ball others have sold. I like the proof as opposed to just saying "Other have sold the same ball Vice is selling now".  I also think it clearly shows Vice is doing zero R&D or QC, just buying the same ball others have sold and bought from the Foremost catalog. 

Edited by chisag

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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5 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... It shows that Vice is selling a ball others have sold. I like the proof as opposed to just saying "Other have sold the same ball Vice is selling now".  I also think it clearly shows Vice is doing zero R&D or QC, just buying the same ball others have sold from the Foremost catalog. 

Here's how Vice spun it on Instagram: "When we started out, we engineered our first high-performance golf balls, and because we didn't have so many customers, we let our manufacturer produce them for some other brands. Since then, we kept growing and now all our models are engineered and sold exclusively by us."

As it sits, their response is perfectly plausible. If you want to shine a light on the story, you gotta blow holes through this type of a response with present-day findings. That's my point.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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Here's how Vice spun it on Instagram: "When we started out, we engineered our first high-performance golf balls, and because we didn't have so many customers, we let our manufacturer produce them for some other brands. Since then, we kept growing and now all our models are engineered and sold exclusively by us."
As it sits, their response is perfectly plausible. If you want to shine a light on the story, you gotta blow holes through this type of a response with present-day findings. That's my point.

Do “engineered” and “made” by mean the same thing??????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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1 minute ago, PMookie said:


Do “engineered” and “made” by mean the same thing??????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm not sure what the intent of your question is. Obviously, engineered and made by are not the same. To the best of our collective knowledge, Nike definitely engineered their own golf balls, and Bridgestone definitely made them. Vice's claim is similar. They engineer their golf balls, but they don't make them.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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One relatively minor issue I have with the #finditcutit thing is the assumption that just because two chunks of rubber are the same color it means they are the same material. Tony replied to me in Twitter about it being a standard practice in the ball industry to make life easier during manufacturing - it's harder to mix up slabs of rubber if they are color coded. While I get that point, the coloring doesn't necessarily mean anything without doing a bunch of reverse engineering to confirm they are the same. So if Vice approached a manufacturer and said "we want the core material to have such-and-such properties," the plant could easily make tweaks to a recipe to meet Vice's specifications while not changing the color they once made for Rife or Monsta, yet it is, in fact, a different material. To take this to an extreme, look at tires: all tread compounds are black, but there is certainly a huge difference between the tread on some hippie's Prius (designed for long life) and an ultra high performance tire for a Ferrari (designed for grip).

But, if Tony says that's the way it is in the industry, who am I to argue?

To me, some of the more interesting things are the QC aspects of cover thickness, core placement, etc., and the prospect of many different balls being packaged as the same from a manufacturer.

Driver:  :callaway-small:Epic Speed 9* (set -1) MMT 70X
3W:bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR Recoil 760ES
3H, 4H: :bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR 19*, 23* Recoil 780ES
4-AW:bridgestone-small: Tour B JGR HF2 Modus3 Tour 105
SW: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Black Satin 54*
LW:Sub70: TAIII Black 58*
Putter:ping-small: Scottsdale TR Senita
Bag: BigMax Dri Active Lite
Ball:taylormade-small: TP5x or :titleist-small: AVX (yellow)
Pushcart: BigMax iQ+

Testing Complete, Final Review PostedSub70 TAIII Forged Wedges

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4 minutes ago, MaxEntropy said:

One relatively minor issue I have with the #finditcutit thing is the assumption that just because two chunks of rubber are the same color it means they are the same material. Tony replied to me in Twitter about it being a standard practice in the ball industry to make life easier during manufacturing - it's harder to mix up slabs of rubber if they are color coded. While I get that point, the coloring doesn't necessarily mean anything without doing a bunch of reverse engineering to confirm they are the same. So if Vice approached a manufacturer and said "we want the core material to have such-and-such properties," the plant could easily make tweaks to a recipe to meet Vice's specifications while not changing the color they once made for Rife or Monsta, yet it is, in fact, a different material. To take this to an extreme, look at tires: all tread compounds are black, but there is certainly a huge difference between the tread on some hippie's Prius (designed for long life) and an ultra high performance tire for a Ferrari (designed for grip).

But, if Tony says that's the way it is in the industry, who am I to argue?

To me, some of the more interesting things are the QC aspects of cover thickness, core placement, etc., and the prospect of many different balls being packaged as the same from a manufacturer.

Agreed!!! Playing fast and loose with the marketing of golf equipment is nothing new. I'm much more interested the things you mentioned. 

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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Funny aside.  My company purchases 88/12 material golf shirts with the company logo on the right breast for the employees.  Those shirts are identical to the Under Armour Performance and Playoff polo depending on which style we order.  Under Armour sells those same shirts for between $55 and $80.  We get those shirts for $10.99 each if we order in bulk.  The quarter-zips Under Armour sells for $85 we get for $12 with our company logo.  I promise, stamped tags, buttons, stitching, material, everything about those shirts and pullovers are identical to the UA stuff I already own.  Absolutely identical. Not similar....identical.  The only thing missing is the UA logo!

This happens in every industry all over the world from the car you drive to the medicine you take to the milk you drink to the toothpaste you use!

 

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I'm not sure what the intent of your question is. Obviously, engineered and made by are not the same. To the best of our collective knowledge, Nike definitely engineered their own golf balls, and Bridgestone definitely made them. Vice's claim is similar. They engineer their golf balls, but they don't make them.

Ok, so that defines the message that Vice is sending out... They’re still not making their own balls. This doesn’t clarify whether or not other balls are using the same engineering. It’s picking apart fine print, and spin.... It’s what I do. Their reply doesn’t definitively say things have changed and that the Vice balls are one-and-only designs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said:

I'm not sure what the intent of your question is. Obviously, engineered and made by are not the same. To the best of our collective knowledge, Nike definitely engineered their own golf balls, and Bridgestone definitely made them. Vice's claim is similar. They engineer their golf balls, but they don't make them.

I think they take some liberty in defining "team".  

The statement is:

Quote

Our Team in Germany and Taiwan has been engineering and manufacturing high performance golf balls since the early 90’s. Today more than 200 engineers, designers, craftsmen and production workers build and operate sophisticated custom equipment for the production of millions of high-tech golf balls per year.

So Vice has been designing and manufacturing golf balls for over 20 years, but they only started branding them VICE and selling them over the last few years?

No - they are just flat out lying.  They pay a 3rd party contractor for balls.  VICE doesn't design, engineer or manufacture squat.  Like MGS showed in their video yesterday, you can send an email to a company and have that exact same team of engineers behind your golf ball.  There is no such thing as a Vice Golf Ball Engineer.  Period

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7 minutes ago, PMookie said:


Ok, so that defines the message that Vice is sending out... They’re still not making their own balls. This doesn’t clarify whether or not other balls are using the same engineering. It’s picking apart fine print, and spin.... It’s what I do. Their reply doesn’t definitively say things have changed and that the Vice balls are one-and-only designs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Please read my previous post wherein I quoted from Vice's statement on Instagram.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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So Vice has been designing and manufacturing golf balls for over 20 years, but they only started branding them VICE and selling them over the last few years?
No - they are just flat out lying.  They pay a 3rd party contractor for balls.  VICE doesn't design, engineer or manufacture squat.  Like MGS showed in their video yesterday, you can send an email to a company and have that exact same team of engineers behind your golf ball.  There is no such thing as a Vice Golf Ball Engineer.  Period


Their reply to the MGS message on Twitter does say that their models are now exclusive.

IMG_3774.PNG


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Right Handed

Driver: Cobra Amp (circa ~2013)  8.5* X-Stiff

19* Hybrid: Cobra King F7 Stiff

Irons (4-PW): Titleist AP2 714 X-Stiff

52* Wedge: Vokey SM6

56* Wedge: TaylorMade Tour Preferred

60* Wedge: Vokey SM6

Putter: Nike Method MC-3i Blade

Ball: Vice Pro+

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2 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Ok, so that defines the message that Vice is sending out... They’re still not making their own balls. This doesn’t clarify whether or not other balls are using the same engineering. It’s picking apart fine print, and spin.... It’s what I do. Their reply doesn’t definitively say things have changed and that the Vice balls are one-and-only designs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Agreed!  I don't believe Vice is "engineering" anything nor do I believe they ever did.  My interpretation of the Vice press release is "we have an exclusive deal with an Asian manufacturer to stamp "Vice" on the side of the balls they once stamped Monsta, Dixon, Kick X, Rife and several others."

As I stated with the example of the Under Armour gear above, this isn't exclusive to golf balls nor does it mean Vice isn't selling a quality ball.  They are just disingenuous by which the advertise and market their product.  But then again, so is virtually every other company selling something on the retail market these days. 

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4 minutes ago, archieadams said:

 


Their reply to the MGS message on Twitter does say that their models are now exclusive.

IMG_3774.PNG


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 


Man they are good with words - no wonder they are a marketing company.

So in the past that 3rd party manufacturer produced the specific ball for multiple brands.  Now, VICE has more buying power and can maybe pay a bit of a premium for exclusivity.  So the other brands disappeared and Vice continues to have their name printed on the ball.

Still no design or engineering.

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1 minute ago, sixcat said:

Agreed!  I don't believe Vice is "engineering" anything nor do I believe they ever did.  My interpretation of the Vice press release is "we have an exclusive deal with an Asian manufacturer to stamp "Vice" on the side of the balls they once stamped Monsta, Dixon, Kick X, Rife and several others."

As I stated with the example of the Under Armour gear above, this isn't exclusive to golf balls nor does it mean Vice isn't selling a quality ball.  They are just disingenuous by which the advertise and market their product.  But then again, so is virtually every other company selling something on the retail market these days. 

Bingo

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Man they are good with words - no wonder they are a marketing company.
So in the past that 3rd party manufacturer produced the specific ball for multiple brands.  Now, VICE has more buying power and can maybe pay a bit of a premium for exclusivity.  So the other brands disappeared and Vice continues to have their name printed on the ball.
Still no design or engineering.


Don’t disagree, but whatever they have now shouldn’t be found in any newer balls that have been release. Sure you may find them in older/refurbished products but going forward what they have should be unique to them whether they “made it” or not.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Right Handed

Driver: Cobra Amp (circa ~2013)  8.5* X-Stiff

19* Hybrid: Cobra King F7 Stiff

Irons (4-PW): Titleist AP2 714 X-Stiff

52* Wedge: Vokey SM6

56* Wedge: TaylorMade Tour Preferred

60* Wedge: Vokey SM6

Putter: Nike Method MC-3i Blade

Ball: Vice Pro+

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24 minutes ago, jlukes said:

I think they take some liberty in defining "team".  

I agree 100%. 

24 minutes ago, jlukes said:

So Vice has been designing and manufacturing golf balls for over 20 years, but they only started branding them VICE and selling them over the last few years?

"Our Team in Germany and Taiwan has been engineering and manufacturing high performance golf balls since the early 90’s." The key words here are "our team". It doesn't say WE; it doesn't say VICE. Again, this is not an uncommon practice in any industry. When X company claims XXX years of experience it is often time representative of cumulative experience among all staff.

24 minutes ago, jlukes said:

No - they are just flat out lying.  They pay a 3rd party contractor for balls.  VICE doesn't design, engineer or manufacture squat.  Like MGS showed in their video yesterday, you can send an email to a company and have that exact same team of engineers behind your golf ball.  There is no such thing as a Vice Golf Ball Engineer.  Period

They certainly could be lying. They very likely are lying, but until conclusive evidence is provided it's just the words of one party against the words of another.

Edited by TR1PTIK

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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6 minutes ago, jlukes said:


Man they are good with words - no wonder they are a marketing company.

So in the past that 3rd party manufacturer produced the specific ball for multiple brands.  Now, VICE has more buying power and can maybe pay a bit of a premium for exclusivity.  So the other brands disappeared and Vice continues to have their name printed on the ball.

Still no design or engineering.

 

... Are you saying the guy with a beanie in 90* heat on a golf course doing their commercials isn't chemically or aerodynamically engineering their golf balls? No commercials turn me off more to a product than Vice, with the exception of Parsons and PXG.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Are you saying the guy with a beanie in 90* heat on a golf course doing their commercials isn't chemically or aerodynamically engineering their golf balls? No commercials turn me off more to a product than Vice, with the exception of Parsons and PXG.  

But Golf Digest gave them 5 Stars for Performance and Innovation!

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It should also be noted that plenty of companies who aren't in the business of manufacturing their own product often still have their own engineers. Those engineers exist to ensure that the expectations of a contract are met on a highly technical level.

It's not to say that Vice is on the level with their marketing claims, but it's still within the realm of possibility that they are. The only way to know with certainty is to see a list of names and patents. Vice may have that, they may not. Right now it's in their best interest not to disclose information either way.

This also leads me to a separate (though not entirely) point. Has anyone noticed how hard Vice is trolling MGS right now? They commented in a different post with the discount code "MYGOLFSPY". 

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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3 minutes ago, chisag said:

... Are you saying the guy with a beanie in 90* heat on a golf course doing their commercials isn't chemically or aerodynamically engineering their golf balls? No commercials turn me off more to a product than Vice, with the exception of Parsons and PXG.  

 

2 minutes ago, jlukes said:

But Golf Digest gave them 5 Stars for Performance and Innovation!

Having support from Golf Digest can only mean one thing............they got PAID!!!!!!!!!

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7 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

It should also be noted that plenty of companies who aren't in the business of manufacturing their own product often still have their own engineers. Those engineers exist to ensure that the expectations of a contract are met on a highly technical level.

It's not to say that Vice is on the level with their marketing claims, but it's still within the realm of possibility that they are. The only way to know with certainty is to see a list of names and patents. Vice may have that, they may not. Right now it's in their best interest not to disclose information either way.

This also leads me to a separate (though not entirely) point. Has anyone noticed how hard Vice is trolling MGS right now? They commented in a different post with the discount code "MYGOLFSPY". 

That's exactly what Tony said yesterday:  Show me the patents.

And Vice has always tried to position themselves as some sort of alternative/hipster golf company.  We don't conform to your perception of golf companies! Screw the establishment!

MGS, a former ally, is now the establishment.  They'll try to use this negative news to further their cause.  It's how most top politicians would operate - they are invigorating their base of alternative golfers

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I hope it's understood that I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate in this discussion. My original confusion about the MGS post and continued discussion simply stems from the fact that if you're going to start something, you'd better finish it too. If Vice is really doing the consumer harm, then get to the bottom of it and provide us with present-day objective evidence. Otherwise, the only real wrong I see is the use of some very loosely defined terms to describe the way their golf balls are brought to fruition which is not all that uncommon from the way some of the major OEMs represent year-over-year improvements in equipment.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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8 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I hope it's understood that I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate in this discussion. My original confusion about the MGS post and continued discussion simply stems from the fact that if you're going to start something, you'd better finish it too. If Vice is really doing the consumer harm, then get to the bottom of it and provide us with present-day objective evidence. Otherwise, the only real wrong I see is the use of some very loosely defined terms to describe the way their golf balls are brought to fruition which is not all that uncommon from the way some of the major OEMs represent year-over-year improvements in equipment.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting Vice is doing the consumer harm.  As mentioned earlier, Tony even stated in the video the balls performed very well in the MGS Ball Testing.  

I also feel like it should be noted, MGS is a business looking to get viewership to return time and time again.  They likely know and have determined far more at this point than they have released to us, the viewer.  I would suspect much of your concern with "opening the book and leaving it open" will be answered in the coming weeks and months.

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14 minutes ago, sixcat said:

I don't believe anyone is suggesting Vice is doing the consumer harm.  As mentioned earlier, Tony even stated in the video the balls performed very well in the MGS Ball Testing.  

I also feel like it should be noted, MGS is a business looking to get viewership to return time and time again.  They likely know and have determined far more at this point than they have released to us, the viewer.  I would suspect much of your concern with "opening the book and leaving it open" will be answered in the coming weeks and months.

Those are kind of my thoughts as well, but I'm impatient sometimes lol.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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9 hours ago, sixcat said:

I don't believe anyone is suggesting Vice is doing the consumer harm.  As mentioned earlier, Tony even stated in the video the balls performed very well in the MGS Ball Testing.  

I also feel like it should be noted, MGS is a business looking to get viewership to return time and time again.  They likely know and have determined far more at this point than they have released to us, the viewer.  I would suspect much of your concern with "opening the book and leaving it open" will be answered in the coming weeks and months.

The Titleist lawsuit is from 2015 and already settled out of court, correct?  

Edited by pilot25
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Saw the post from MGS last night. Looks like another Foremost 3-pc cast urethane golf ball found its way into a sleeve of Maxfli's. I was a little skeptical at first simply because it was just a photo of the internals posted to social media by some seemingly random user, but I looked up the account and he also had more photos and a video to share. So, this may be the first real evidence available that shows Vice does not have exclusivity on the Foremost ball. It's still remotely possible there could be some sort of an explanation, but not likely. This is definitely what I was looking for yesterday. Doesn't mean I'll be doing anything different with my current stock of Vice Pros, but it could cause a switch for next season.

In other news, I cut up most of that tub of balls last night. There were really only a couple of interesting finds, but I''ll be sure to post pictures and video of everything when I get a chance. The most intriguing finds were from Taylormade. First with two different versions of a 2-pc Burner ball that looked identical internally, and second with a Lethal and Penta that look nearly identical (only a slight change in color on one of the layers). I don't know much about the history of Taylormade balls so not sure where everything falls into place on a timeline, but I'm sure the spy community can assist with that. Hopefully, I'll have time to gather pics and video tonight or tomorrow. Also, I saved a few gems that should be good for a little entertainment. I'll share more if it pans out the way I think it will.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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11 hours ago, sixcat said:

I believe so, yes.  

Well then I'm a little shocked, ok I'm not shocked, to see they post this litigation as current.  Their picture on the podcast even cuts off the bottom of the document which displays the date.  Misleading and seems a bit dishonest.

I like some of the things that come out of MGS but more and more there are undertones that they are pushing something that isn't there.

Edited by pilot25
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