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Are modern golfers REALLY better GOLFERS?


PMookie
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And he designs golf courses that reward length indiscriminately

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Get back on track here....


This thread is NOT about Jack and his ideas of balls and course length.

Thanks.


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@pmookie are you talking professional only or are you including amateur? Are you evaluating based on score, creativity, skill, depth of competition, or some other criteria?

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19 minutes ago, PMookie said:


Ugh.
Let’s get back on track here. It’s not about Jack’s opinion on balls and course length....
Ugh.


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Yes, Drill Sergeant! 😆

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55 minutes ago, PMookie said:

We’re conditioned to go right to technology, and fitness, and all of that. Folks, this is SIMPLY about who are better golfers? Course length doesn’t matter. Equipment, and TrackMan don’t matter. All things being equal (the only way to compare and contrast), are today’s players better GOLFERS?
Stop adding stuff in.
Are they better GOLFERS?
No swing coaches, none of it.

I say Lee Trevino was TEN TIMES the true GOLFER that these guys are today. Making the shots, the imagination, manipulation of the club, ability to GRIND, and change mid-round to swing the swing they have that day. It’s not even close.
But do you agree or disagree???


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Watch the video from me and my golf with dj or the Tm video with dj, rahm and Rory. Watch tiger in any tournament. They are as good if not better golfers than previous generations. 

DJ would be just as good with persimmon as he is with modern clubs. 

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

We’re conditioned to go right to technology, and fitness, and all of that. Folks, this is SIMPLY about who are better golfers? Course length doesn’t matter. Equipment, and TrackMan don’t matter. All things being equal (the only way to compare and contrast), are today’s players better GOLFERS?
Stop adding stuff in.
Are they better GOLFERS?
No swing coaches, none of it.

I say Lee Trevino was TEN TIMES the true GOLFER that these guys are today. Making the shots, the imagination, manipulation of the club, ability to GRIND, and change mid-round to swing the swing they have that day. It’s not even close.
But do you agree or disagree???


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I disagree. 

Lots of grinders out there on tour. Lots of creativity. Lots of mid round adjustments. I think the good Ole days are often over glorified and this is one of those cases 

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Does Tiger count as modern? He's kinda in that in-between era.

I honestly believe that no one has command over the ball like he does. Try doing this intentionally:

 

 

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1 hour ago, PMookie said:

We’re conditioned to go right to technology, and fitness, and all of that. Folks, this is SIMPLY about who are better golfers? Course length doesn’t matter. Equipment, and TrackMan don’t matter. All things being equal (the only way to compare and contrast), are today’s players better GOLFERS?
Stop adding stuff in.
Are they better GOLFERS?
No swing coaches, none of it.

I say Lee Trevino was TEN TIMES the true GOLFER that these guys are today. Making the shots, the imagination, manipulation of the club, ability to GRIND, and change mid-round to swing the swing they have that day. It’s not even close.
But do you agree or disagree???


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I agree. They need extra help that older players didn't.  IF you strip away trackman, coaches etc, today's players aren't as good. 

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I agree. They need extra help that older players didn't.  IF you strip away trackman, coaches etc, today's players aren't as good. 


Take a way a lot of that and there wouldn’t be as many good golfers.
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5 minutes ago, GB13 said:

I agree. They need extra help that older players didn't.  IF you strip away trackman, coaches etc, today's players aren't as good. 

Older players didn’t need or didn’t have access too? 

What aspect of the game are players not as good at now as they were back in the day?

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Get back on track here....


This thread is NOT about Jack and his ideas of balls and course length.

Thanks.


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This thread is about WHATEVER THE HELL I SAY IT'S oh wait a sec....hmmm. looks like it's Mookie's thread. Mookie what were we talking about?

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To the OP I don't think today's player is worse exactly. He's just playing a different game. The ball itself is so drastically different than the ball from the 70s there's no way to fairly compare the two. This ball is designed to be mashed as hard and high as possible so that's what these guys do. I do readily admit that the accuracy that the guys from the 60s and 70s displayed w that golf ball was incredible.

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The game has changed so much it’s really hard to draw a comparison. What I will say is today’s Golfers have a higher level of fitness and therefore are better prepared for the grind of a Golf season. I think the top 10 from any era could play and be top 10 in any other area. However, as you move down the rankings the today’s Golfer number 50 in the world is much better than number 50 from the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s, etc........

 

 

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6 hours ago, PMookie said:


Take equipment and technology, and fitness, and all of that out: are they better GOLFERS?
I say no.


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I think Tiger is a much better golfer than the older golfers, including Jack.   His knowledge of his swing, his awareness of his hands and the club are phenomenal.  With regards to the other golfers, who knows what they could achieve if they grew up playing older equipment -- but they didn't have to.  To dismiss their abilities simply because they grew up with modern technology is  short sighted.  We'll never really know the answer to this hypothetical situation.  Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  🙂

 

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And he designs golf courses that reward length indiscriminately

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I dunno, the one near where I am (The Northern Bear) is a sand trap haven that punishes misses. I'm surprised I haven't seen lifeguards roaming around.

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I think, like most past generations facing harder times, harder lives, people were generally more mature and tougher overall.

Tougher, but not any more capable. I think today's players, on average, are better athletes, more fit, and more capable.

Modern support, relative to era, with yesteryear toughness? Those are your generational greats.

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20 hours ago, PMookie said:

We’re conditioned to go right to technology, and fitness, and all of that. Folks, this is SIMPLY about who are better golfers? Course length doesn’t matter. Equipment, and TrackMan don’t matter. All things being equal (the only way to compare and contrast), are today’s players better GOLFERS?
Stop adding stuff in.
Are they better GOLFERS?
No swing coaches, none of it.

I say Lee Trevino was TEN TIMES the true GOLFER that these guys are today. Making the shots, the imagination, manipulation of the club, ability to GRIND, and change mid-round to swing the swing they have that day. It’s not even close.
But do you agree or disagree???


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Agree.

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20 hours ago, PMookie said:

We’re conditioned to go right to technology, and fitness, and all of that. Folks, this is SIMPLY about who are better golfers? Course length doesn’t matter. Equipment, and TrackMan don’t matter. All things being equal (the only way to compare and contrast), are today’s players better GOLFERS?
Stop adding stuff in.
Are they better GOLFERS?
No swing coaches, none of it.

I say Lee Trevino was TEN TIMES the true GOLFER that these guys are today. Making the shots, the imagination, manipulation of the club, ability to GRIND, and change mid-round to swing the swing they have that day. It’s not even close.
But do you agree or disagree???


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You are comparing one of the greats agai st everyone today. I say tiger, dj, Rory, Phil, Vijay to name a few are better than Trevino and in a Trevino fan.  

Also the clubs and balls of today are designed to go straighter so technology plays a role in golfers getting the mid optimized setup for their specific swing.

While hitting shots and creativity is a nice aspect of golf and shoes the versatility of the golfer there are guys like Zach Johnson who plays a draw and rarely if ever hits anything else has won with a stock shot and a great wedge game. The object of the game is to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Doesnt matter if the players hits every shot imaginable or hits it dead straight every time. 

You have no idea if any of the past players would have used any of the technology, training, sports psychologists, etc that is available to the players. 

 

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Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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20 hours ago, PMookie said:

We’re conditioned to go right to technology, and fitness, and all of that. Folks, this is SIMPLY about who are better golfers? Course length doesn’t matter. Equipment, and TrackMan don’t matter. All things being equal (the only way to compare and contrast), are today’s players better GOLFERS?
Stop adding stuff in.
Are they better GOLFERS?
No swing coaches, none of it.

I say Lee Trevino was TEN TIMES the true GOLFER that these guys are today. Making the shots, the imagination, manipulation of the club, ability to GRIND, and change mid-round to swing the swing they have that day. It’s not even close.
But do you agree or disagree???


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You can't have a meaningful discussion like this without also taking into consideration the factors that make today's game and today's golfer different from those of the past. It's an apples to oranges comparison otherwise.

That said, I stand beside my first post. The modern golfer is typically a better athlete with better physical capability, but previous generations of golfers had a better "knowledge" of how to get the ball to do what they want. I placed the word knowledge in quotation marks because we know now that the science doesn't match up to what was previously believed (ball flight laws for instance). However, golfers from 15 - 20+ years ago were able to make the ball do incredible things because they learned to play a wide variety of shots through experimentation. The modern golfer learns to play different shots through similar means, but their starting point is completely different because they have hard data that says, "this is the formula to produce X shot".

P.S. I'm glad you didn't take offense to my Drill Sergeant remark. I was just busting your chops.

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I feel this conversation happens in every sport. In my own opinion the players now are just all around better. Now specifically in golf no I don’t feel the players now are leaps and bounds better. Given the same equipment I think they’d be close. Are the fields deeper? I don’t know not that In touch with it. 

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Top to bottom yes I think they are, but there are plenty of players in their prime from other generations that I think could easily compete in today’s game especially with the modern equipment. The biggest gap in my opinion would probably be on the lower end of the pool. That being said I think a Hogan, Nelson, Nicklaus, Miller or Seve in their prime could be a top 10 player today but that’s the fun part about the speculation I guess...


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