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Good morning -

 

After my abysmal round yesterday and the terrible range session afterwards I started to see what could be the fault.

 

I have an in to out swing generally... or probably more like an in to square to In probably.

 

So if we hold onto the lag it will keep the clubface open right? That’s if we don’t turn fast enough to get that sucker back to square.

 

I was blocking them or a healthy push slice.

 

Going to the range today after work to try and “let it go”... the lag that is.

 

Yep. I’ll get a lesson when I can and have the time and all that.

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Just as an FYI from a struggling high handicapper - it IS possible to have too much lag, tho I won't venture to guess as to effects and consequences, just saying that in a recent lesson with my pro he wants me to let go of the lag sooner in the downswing.... "Feel" as if I'm pushing the clubhead 'out and away'.

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Just as an FYI from a struggling high handicapper - it IS possible to have too much lag, tho I won't venture to guess as to effects and consequences, just saying that in a recent lesson with my pro he wants me to let go of the lag sooner in the downswing.... "Feel" as if I'm pushing the clubhead 'out and away'.


I hear you. I noticed that I was holding on to the lag and cutting my follow through short, so like a punch slice.

I ran into this issue a few years ago and I fixed it and played my best golf by feeling like my right hand is on top of the left at impact... it isn’t but that’s the fell I get.

Hopefully that works this year... if not... FORE Right!
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3 minutes ago, Shankster said:

 


I hear you. I noticed that I was holding on to the lag and cutting my follow through short, so like a punch slice.

I ran into this issue a few years ago and I fixed it and played my best golf by feeling like my right hand is on top of the left at impact... it isn’t but that’s the fell I get.

Hopefully that works this year... if not... FORE Right!

 

So... I might be having a similar problem. Let me ask you, did your divots point way too far to the left? 

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Have you taken a video?  Just saying that to make sure that is your problem.  If you do have too much lag, could you send some of it to me... please!

If you have too much lag and blocking it, you are probably handle dragging rather than releasing the club.  Too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Try to get the shaft a little more vertical at impact.  If you focus on swinging with your lead arm more than your trail arm, physics will let the shaft release naturally.  Got an impact bag?

But what do I know... I've never had that problem!!  I just do the opposite of what better players mistakes are.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Must have been that kind of day yesterday. Played my league match and most of my shots were going right.

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Have you taken a video?  Just saying that to make sure that is your problem.  If you do have too much lag, could you send some of it to me... please!
If you have too much lag and blocking it, you are probably handle dragging rather than releasing the club.  Too much forward shaft lean at impact.  Try to get the shaft a little more vertical at impact.  If you focus on swinging with your lead arm more than your trail arm, physics will let the shaft release naturally.  Got an impact bag?
But what do I know... I've never had that problem!!  I just do the opposite of what better players mistakes are.


I am for sure handle dragging... hence the Tom Hanks... holding the release off for as long as possible and before I know it the ball is already gone and I have a crap follow through where the right shoulder is too high.
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2 hours ago, Shankster said:

Think I’m going to skip the range today... left to right wind... not good for working on not blocking the ball..

IMG_5360.PNG

Wuss!  I'm playing tonight in the same wind, but from the SW.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Wuss!  I'm playing tonight in the same wind, but from the SW.


Haha.

They closed the course right after I got there. Went and picked 20 balls off the range and worked on holding them up into that wind. They all went straight. I’m guessing they had right to left spin on them to stay straight?
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13 minutes ago, Shankster said:

 


Haha.

They closed the course right after I got there. Went and picked 20 balls off the range and worked on holding them up into that wind. They all went straight. I’m guessing they had right to left spin on them to stay straight?

 

That... or a well-struck ball is not affected by the wind.  😉

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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11 hours ago, Shankster said:


I am for sure handle dragging... hence the Tom Hanks... holding the release off for as long as possible and before I know it the ball is already gone and I have a crap follow through where the right shoulder is too high.

 

 

... The only time to drag the handle or increase lag is when training someone that casts the club from the top. Proper lag occurs when you are not holding it back or actively releasing thru impact. The faster you swing the more centrifugal force will naturally release the club head. It is a good example of effortless power not powerless effort. 

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... The only time to drag the handle or increase lag is when training someone that casts the club from the top. Proper lag occurs when you are not holding it back or actively releasing thru impact. The faster you swing the more centrifugal force will naturally release the club head. It is a good example of effortless power not powerless effort. 


Right. It is just my natural tendency. Carried over from my childhood trying to hit bombs.

Going to take some work to get rid of it. Probably around 10,000 hours...
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Hand 'speed/path' dictates  the evoking of the 'fictitious - Centrifugal Force'  .

RahmHandArcPath.jpg

 

Holding the lag is difficult to do because the 'CF ' force amount generated (if you are moving your hands fast in  a tight arc- see image 3  for Jon Rahm) increases so much that you cannot 'hold' the lag . The 'inertial forces' you start feeling through the hands/arms is similar to swinging a bag of heavy cement (ie. 100 Newtons approaching impact).  Trying to hold the  wrist cock and releasing later (ie. allowing the free unhinging of your wrists as your hand path moves into a tight arc)  in the downswing will no doubt increase your clubhead speed but then you still need to find a way to square the clubface by time of impact. So what I'm saying is by changing your release, you might  also need to change other mechanics in your swing so that it all fits together.

PS. Another cause of excessive forward shaft lean by impact is if your upper body moves too much laterally.  The centre of the rotation of your swing  will move to the lead shoulder joint  by impact. If you move your upper body forward towards target ,this also  moves your lead shoulder joint which will create a tendency to have too much forward shaft lean. 

 

 

Edited by Wildthing
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21 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... The only time to drag the handle or increase lag is when training someone that casts the club from the top. Proper lag occurs when you are not holding it back or actively releasing thru impact. The faster you swing the more centrifugal force will naturally release the club head. It is a good example of effortless power not powerless effort. 

Do you have any good drills for this? I've been trying it, but I just can't seem to get the clubhead to actively release properly. 

Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

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Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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5 minutes ago, GB13 said:

Do you have any good drills for this? I've been trying it, but I just can't seem to get the clubhead to actively release properly. 

 

... Difficult to recommend drills without seeing what the problem might be. But you can always swing in super slow motion. Then slowly increase the speed of your swing. If you are holding the club loosely with loose arms, allowing the club to swing, you will begin to feel the club head releasing faster thru impact. DLIII used to do a drill where he hit his driver with a full swing only 100 yards. After making good contact and hitting it straight, he would increase the distance to 150, then 200, 250 and 300. 

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10 hours ago, GB13 said:

Do you have any good drills for this? I've been trying it, but I just can't seem to get the clubhead to actively release properly. 

I have confused you with my previous post (which I have now edited - too much 'biomechanics' stuff)  but I do find some of Shawn Clement ideas successful especially if I don't have the time to ingrain 'theoretic' golf mechanics into my game (without any guarantee of them working- Lol! ).

Get yourself a 'Grass Whip' and learn how to cut grass using something he labels 'The Perpetual Motion Drill'. Or you practice with your normal club something called the 'Elephant Walk'  hitting a line of  balls (or tee pegs)

 

 

Edited by Wildthing
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28 minutes ago, Shankster said:

After some more thought. This all started when I tried to switch from a crossover release to a push release to protect my shoulder.

Going to take a bit but I’m going to go work on my Patrick Reed release again.

See you in a few months.

Won't a crossover hand release be very timing dependent?  I mean if the clubface is rotating rapidly , your timing to get the clubface square by impact will need to be perfect.

PS. Interesting snapshot of Patrick reed below at 0:59. His right hand has come off the grip because he's run out of right arm (just like Phil Mickelson, but obviously being a lefty, it would be his left arm).

 

 

 

Edited by Wildthing
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Won't a crossover hand release be very timing dependent?  I mean if the clubface is rotating rapidly , your timing to get the clubface square by impact will need to be perfect.


Was more successful with that type.

Hitting high weak open face fades/slices with the push release, I’d have to open my stance and have a super strong grip to make it work.

With the crossover release I could still work the ball to the right when needed. Played my best golf with it.

I guess I’ve been building a 100 yard and in swing. So my full swing suffered badly.

I don’t think it calls hurt anything. Maybe my distance will come back.

When I got back into this game a few years ago, I copied Patrick’s release and it worked well. Messed up my shoulder tried to work on Tommy’s style and I can’t move my lower body that fast.

I’ll updated with the choice words I have this week.
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PS. Interesting snapshot of Patrick reed below at 0:59. His right hand has come off the grip because he's run out of right arm (just like Phil Mickelson, but obviously being a lefty, it would be his left arm).
 


Yeah, I wasn’t quite that aggressive. But I did confuse this type of release with a flip... so I added more lag thinking I was flipping, so now on my full swings I delivery an overly open face “holding off” the release and it sucks.

Another reason not to tinker with swing. I was scoring really low and trending lower then I tried to get more technical and I’ve only gotten worse.

A few weeks I should be able to get rid of this technical crap.
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1 hour ago, Shankster said:

 


Yeah, I wasn’t quite that aggressive. But I did confuse this type of release with a flip... so I added more lag thinking I was flipping, so now on my full swings I delivery an overly open face “holding off” the release and it sucks.

Another reason not to tinker with swing. I was scoring really low and trending lower then I tried to get more technical and I’ve only gotten worse.

A few weeks I should be able to get rid of this technical crap.

 

Yes, I tried doing this 'Drive Hold' type of hand release and couldn't do it because I just wasn't flexible enough.  To do it successfully you have to get your right shoulder closer to the ball so that you 'don't' run out of right arm through impact (ie. keep your right wrist bent and not allow it to flip through impact). And to get your right shoulder down and closer to the ball you need to have a lot of secondary tilt while you rotate your torso and that really started to hurt my lower back.

If you check out Reed and Michelson , they don't have as much secondary tilt and 'lateral bend'  like Cameron Champ ('Drive Holder')  and are probably minimizing strain on their lumbar spine.

 

Image result for champ golfer

 

 

Edited by Wildthing
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On 4/26/2019 at 11:01 PM, chisag said:

 

... The only time to drag the handle or increase lag is when training someone that casts the club from the top. Proper lag occurs when you are not holding it back or actively releasing thru impact. The faster you swing the more centrifugal force will naturally release the club head. It is a good example of effortless power not powerless effort. 

Basically said what I came in here to say. Proper lag is a result of what you are doing with the rest of your body - it shouldn't be shoe-horned into every swing. It should occur naturally based on proper sequencing. The amount of lag will correlate to how extreme the sequencing is. 

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Basically said what I came in here to say. Proper lag is a result of what you are doing with the rest of your body - it shouldn't be shoe-horned into every swing. It should occur naturally based on proper sequencing. The amount of lag will correlate to how extreme the sequencing is. 


Right. It was occurring naturally and I was too ignorant to realize it. Now that I’ve figured it out the battle will be to forget it.

I’m just holding the angle too long leaving the clubface 10° Open (just a guess by the way it comes off the clubface). Produces a really poor, weak shot. Went from hitting bombs to wanting to give up the game...
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Yes, I tried doing this 'Drive Hold' type of hand release and couldn't do it because I just wasn't flexible enough.  To do it successfully you have to get your right shoulder closer to the ball so that you 'don't' run out of right arm through impact (ie. keep your right wrist bent and not allow it to flip through impact). And to get your right shoulder down and closer to the ball you need to have a lot of secondary tilt while you rotate your torso and that really started to hurt my lower back.
If you check out Reed and Michelson , they don't have as much secondary tilt and 'lateral bend'  like Cameron Champ ('Drive Holder')  and are probably minimizing strain on their lumbar spine.
 
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFzHNs_etNunPghjFLj0FW21G6ORYrNuhVXKVRc8un5OCzhqQs
 
 


Yeah.... I am not flexible. Very upright stance. I have no tilt in me. Oak tree, and I Stretch daily and do yoga.... no change. Was hoping to become wispy tall fescue. But I’m more like a flag stick.
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8 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Just had an Ah-ha moment...

Taking it to the range tomorrow.

Earlier on you mentioned a push / block.  Why not take a look at if you’re sliding laterally during your downswing.  

 

Good luck working the problem.

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