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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Shankster said:

After some more thought. This all started when I tried to switch from a crossover release to a push release to protect my shoulder.

Going to take a bit but I’m going to go work on my Patrick Reed release again.

See you in a few months.

Won't a crossover hand release be very timing dependent?  I mean if the clubface is rotating rapidly , your timing to get the clubface square by impact will need to be perfect.

PS. Interesting snapshot of Patrick reed below at 0:59. His right hand has come off the grip because he's run out of right arm (just like Phil Mickelson, but obviously being a lefty, it would be his left arm).

 

 

 

Edited by Wildthing
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Won't a crossover hand release be very timing dependent?  I mean if the clubface is rotating rapidly , your timing to get the clubface square by impact will need to be perfect.


Was more successful with that type.

Hitting high weak open face fades/slices with the push release, I’d have to open my stance and have a super strong grip to make it work.

With the crossover release I could still work the ball to the right when needed. Played my best golf with it.

I guess I’ve been building a 100 yard and in swing. So my full swing suffered badly.

I don’t think it calls hurt anything. Maybe my distance will come back.

When I got back into this game a few years ago, I copied Patrick’s release and it worked well. Messed up my shoulder tried to work on Tommy’s style and I can’t move my lower body that fast.

I’ll updated with the choice words I have this week.

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PS. Interesting snapshot of Patrick reed below at 0:59. His right hand has come off the grip because he's run out of right arm (just like Phil Mickelson, but obviously being a lefty, it would be his left arm).
 


Yeah, I wasn’t quite that aggressive. But I did confuse this type of release with a flip... so I added more lag thinking I was flipping, so now on my full swings I delivery an overly open face “holding off” the release and it sucks.

Another reason not to tinker with swing. I was scoring really low and trending lower then I tried to get more technical and I’ve only gotten worse.

A few weeks I should be able to get rid of this technical crap.
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Shankster said:

 


Yeah, I wasn’t quite that aggressive. But I did confuse this type of release with a flip... so I added more lag thinking I was flipping, so now on my full swings I delivery an overly open face “holding off” the release and it sucks.

Another reason not to tinker with swing. I was scoring really low and trending lower then I tried to get more technical and I’ve only gotten worse.

A few weeks I should be able to get rid of this technical crap.

 

Yes, I tried doing this 'Drive Hold' type of hand release and couldn't do it because I just wasn't flexible enough.  To do it successfully you have to get your right shoulder closer to the ball so that you 'don't' run out of right arm through impact (ie. keep your right wrist bent and not allow it to flip through impact). And to get your right shoulder down and closer to the ball you need to have a lot of secondary tilt while you rotate your torso and that really started to hurt my lower back.

If you check out Reed and Michelson , they don't have as much secondary tilt and 'lateral bend'  like Cameron Champ ('Drive Holder')  and are probably minimizing strain on their lumbar spine.

 

Image result for champ golfer

 

 

Edited by Wildthing
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On 4/26/2019 at 11:01 PM, chisag said:

 

... The only time to drag the handle or increase lag is when training someone that casts the club from the top. Proper lag occurs when you are not holding it back or actively releasing thru impact. The faster you swing the more centrifugal force will naturally release the club head. It is a good example of effortless power not powerless effort. 

Basically said what I came in here to say. Proper lag is a result of what you are doing with the rest of your body - it shouldn't be shoe-horned into every swing. It should occur naturally based on proper sequencing. The amount of lag will correlate to how extreme the sequencing is. 

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Basically said what I came in here to say. Proper lag is a result of what you are doing with the rest of your body - it shouldn't be shoe-horned into every swing. It should occur naturally based on proper sequencing. The amount of lag will correlate to how extreme the sequencing is. 


Right. It was occurring naturally and I was too ignorant to realize it. Now that I’ve figured it out the battle will be to forget it.

I’m just holding the angle too long leaving the clubface 10° Open (just a guess by the way it comes off the clubface). Produces a really poor, weak shot. Went from hitting bombs to wanting to give up the game...
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Yes, I tried doing this 'Drive Hold' type of hand release and couldn't do it because I just wasn't flexible enough.  To do it successfully you have to get your right shoulder closer to the ball so that you 'don't' run out of right arm through impact (ie. keep your right wrist bent and not allow it to flip through impact). And to get your right shoulder down and closer to the ball you need to have a lot of secondary tilt while you rotate your torso and that really started to hurt my lower back.
If you check out Reed and Michelson , they don't have as much secondary tilt and 'lateral bend'  like Cameron Champ ('Drive Holder')  and are probably minimizing strain on their lumbar spine.
 
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFzHNs_etNunPghjFLj0FW21G6ORYrNuhVXKVRc8un5OCzhqQs
 
 


Yeah.... I am not flexible. Very upright stance. I have no tilt in me. Oak tree, and I Stretch daily and do yoga.... no change. Was hoping to become wispy tall fescue. But I’m more like a flag stick.
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Just had an Ah-ha moment...

Taking it to the range tomorrow.

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8 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Just had an Ah-ha moment...

Taking it to the range tomorrow.

Earlier on you mentioned a push / block.  Why not take a look at if you’re sliding laterally during your downswing.  

 

Good luck working the problem.

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Just had an Ah-ha moment...

Taking it to the range tomorrow.


Yep. No go.

I did find out my stance was waaaaay too narrow though.

Got a sweet new head high pitch shot though... goodness it has a ton of spin.

Looks like the par 3 courses will be getting some love from me.
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Working on my release... it’s all coming back to me now.

As soon as the Ice King moves out again I’ll put it to work.

Expecting a few duck hooks.... but that’s the point. Then weaken the grip till it produces a nice neutral ball flight.

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Earlier on you mentioned a push / block.  Why not take a look at if you’re sliding laterally during your downswing.  
 
Good luck working the problem.


Put some reading and testing into this. John Daly and Freddie Couples shifted 19” laterally.... 19”!

I probably move 6-8” before the turn. I’m going to leave this alone for now, mostly because I am not flexible and if I restrict my lower body I’ll probably end up like Jason Day and not be able to walk.
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Put some reading and testing into this. John Daly and Freddie Couples shifted 19” laterally.... 19”!

I probably move 6-8” before the turn. I’m going to leave this alone for now, mostly because I am not flexible and if I restrict my lower body I’ll probably end up like Jason Day and not be able to walk.


I believe it!! You want to talk about two of the best swings that were true feel players.

I think to some extent we all do it, I just remember my bad swings that were hard pushes were almost always attributed to a slide.

And I used to swing with a super narrow stance.

If I tried to swing like Jason Day I’d be hauled away in a body bag
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I believe it!! You want to talk about two of the best swings that were true feel players.

I think to some extent we all do it, I just remember my bad swings that were hard pushes were almost always attributed to a slide.

And I used to swing with a super narrow stance.

If I tried to swing like Jason Day I’d be hauled away in a body bag


For sure. When I catch an undesirable that goes right I definitely just slide with a super late turn. Too much is never good. Unless your JD or FC.

19”... I’m going to try and find some face on swings and see if it’s a total of 19” or 19” towards target.
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25 minutes ago, Shankster said:

 


For sure. When I catch an undesirable that goes right I definitely just slide with a super late turn. Too much is never good. Unless your JD or FC.

19”... I’m going to try and find some face on swings and see if it’s a total of 19” or 19” towards target.

 

 

For a low stinger I could imagine 19” but yikes...hard to imagine...

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I'm really appreciating this thread. My irons were super sharp today, and the driver seems to be coming around. Added some good distance too. Thanks Shanks for posting this, seems to be helping. 

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I'm really appreciating this thread. My irons were super sharp today, and the driver seems to be coming around. Added some good distance too. Thanks Shanks for posting this, seems to be helping. 


Glad I could be of assistance.

I’ve been too dang busy to give anything a try. Hoping to get out sometime this week....

Leaving 70°+ weather and heading back to 40’s... not too excited about that. Still trying to figure out why anyone would want to live where I do. Might be one of those unanswered questions.
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Posted (edited)
On 5/2/2019 at 1:39 PM, Shankster said:

 


Put some reading and testing into this. John Daly and Freddie Couples shifted 19” laterally.... 19”!

I probably move 6-8” before the turn. I’m going to leave this alone for now, mostly because I am not flexible and if I restrict my lower body I’ll probably end up like Jason Day and not be able to walk.

 

I read the same thing from Golf Digest link below but when I look at Freds swing, it doesn't look like 19 inches. 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/couples

To me, that move makes Fred the athlete/golfer," says instructor Jim McLean, who after measuring more than 200 PGA Tour pros found that Couples and John Daly moved the left hip the greatest distance forward on the downswing: 19 inches -- a full six inches farther than the tour average.

 

Got to be careful here , because the actual 'lateral movement'  is just a reaction to keeping your rear hip stationary in space at the end of the backswing. So the lateral movement actually happens in the backswing.

Here is Shawn Clement explaining what I've just said above (he calls it the  'Hogan Power Move').

 

PS.  Whatever 'net ' lateral movement happens before impact , just ensure that you don't start your downswing by moving weight pressure immediately onto your lead leg/hip.  I mean how can you stabilise the rear hip/leg in space if you've immediately moved the weight pressure off it? Imho, just keep the weight pressure on your rear hip/leg momentarily until a little later in the downswing before doing any weight pressure transfer to the lead leg. But  I'm afraid it all has to be done subconsciously, so you need to ingrain it somehow by drills , etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Wildthing

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I think I’ve figured it out. It was the release. Just a few shots in the yard, heading to the range this week a few times. Hopefully I can stop holding on too long.

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33 minutes ago, Shankster said:

I think I’ve figured it out. It was the release. Just a few shots in the yard, heading to the range this week a few times. Hopefully I can stop holding on too long.

The release like lag occurs naturally when sequencing is good

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