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Sluggo42

Low hdcp’ers are punished

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So...

why do I start very story with “so...”? 

So anyways, me and my buddy team up to play in the monthly club tourney. He’s a 4, and I’m a 5. We both shoot a 76 and were like 15 strokes away from the winners. They’re hi cappers, who seem to have a good round every time money’s on the line.

so what’s the point of even playing in these events? The low cappers never win crap.there is no room for any bad shots period. You can shoot scratch on a tough track and still lose by 10.

there needs to be a different process. I know it’s supposed to be “fair”, but it’s not fair for the low cappers. We never win. Even when we shoot well, it’s never even close.

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9 minutes ago, Sluggo42 said:

So...

why do I start very story with “so...”? 

So anyways, me and my buddy team up to play in the monthly club tourney. He’s a 4, and I’m a 5. We both shoot a 76 and were like 15 strokes away from the winners. They’re hi cappers, who seem to have a good round every time money’s on the line.

so what’s the point of even playing in these events? The low cappers never win crap.there is no room for any bad shots period. You can shoot scratch on a tough track and still lose by 10.

there needs to be a different process. I know it’s supposed to be “fair”, but it’s not fair for the low cappers. We never win. Even when we shoot well, it’s never even close.

This is why I don’t play in those events...,and I never play anyone for money unless it is straight up

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Posted (edited)

This is why most events should have both gross and Net winners.

Edited by JDUTSO
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I wonder how it could be adjusted... I mean, the low cap guys need a higher stroke payoff or something. It’s obviously a flawed system and it seems something should be able to be done to even it out. It it were fair, the scores would be closer...

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I also tend to stay away from those kind of events for that very reason. I've seen guys sandbag their scores to run their handicap up so when it comes to cash on the line they pull out their real game.

When cash is on the line, it should be score vs score, no handicap!

Chris

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1 hour ago, Sluggo42 said:

it seems something should be able to be done to even it out

I've played in a lot of tournaments where they broke out the guys by HCP into A and B players (maybe for this reason). Maybe you could suggest to the tournament organizer to break it out in a way that makes sense for your club. Could also scale the money higher for low gross in the top tier.

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In team events the USGA recommends that players only receive 80% of their handicap for this very reason. As handicaps climb the amount of outlier scores two very high handicap partners are capable of shooting increases dramatically. 80% of 1 is still a 1 but a 25 loses 5 strokes in that scenario.
Another commonly used option is a team max handicap, usually 36 or 40.

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I totally agree with the OP. I’m a high handicapper that gets 2 shots on most holes.I’ve played in many events like this.And the better player never stands a chance.Golf should be lowest score wins.If you aren’t competitive enough with your current game.Than work your tail off to improve.I personally think golf should never have a handicap system.

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10 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

So anyways, me and my buddy team up to play in the monthly club tourney. He’s a 4, and I’m a 5. We both shoot a 76 and were like 15 strokes away from the winners. They’re hi cappers, who seem to have a good round every time money’s on the line.

so what’s the point of even playing in these events

Sluggo. You answered your own question. At a minimum your club should Flight these so called tournaments. That way you'd most likely be in the Championship flight. I've only rarely seen some fool reverse sandbag their way into championship flight. The Championship Flight and perhaps the next flight under that are the only ones basically sandbag free. 

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Every club tournament should be set up to benefit all players. There's no reason the tournament committee cannot set the tournament that makes it fair and competitive to all players. Flights, gross and net awards, etc. My club does this all the time. Yes, there are cheaters. Every club has them and every member knows who they are.

Our club hosts the largest amateur match play tournament west of the rockies. Flighted by handicap and qualifying round, participants go head to head. I typically get hosed here by shooting a low qualifying round and getting put in the championship flight against scratch golfers. I'll get beat first round and go to consolidate first flight whee in now competing with the other first round losers. Fun tournament

Our club championship is also flighted and offers both gross and net opportunities for each flight. For net purposes, you'll only get a percentage of your handicap. Everyone compete against similar skill level players and everyone has fun and can be as competetive as they can.

Point is that tournaments need to take everything into account and set the rules to maximize the goal of the tournament.

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Yeah, two players shooting 76 and being that far out is nuts.  The statistics on low net simply does not favor the single digit players - even if everyone has an honest handicap.  I think the two flights idea would go a long way to leveling the odds.

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I don't think I would like an event where winnings are awarded only for low net scores. I agree that sounds like a recipe for frustration and arguments. I've only played where there are both gross and net score winnings plus added challenges like closest to the pin, longest drive, split the chip-in pot, skins, etc. And it is not often that anyone but the best players win these challenges. It all seems to even out over time.

I'm playing in a ladies tournament this week that does not use any handicaps in an effort to eliminate the sandbag issue. After play (2-person scramble) is complete, flights (6-8 teams in a flight) are created according to gross scores for that round only. You never know what flight you will be in.

In our regular $10 weekend games (12 - 30 players), a chip-in wins more than low gross because everyone must pay each chip-in achiever an extra $1. On top of that, when we finish, we are paired with a blind draw partner for a combined score. If we have cheaters who join us, they are simply not invited to return.

My winnings seems to be in cycles. My playing will improve and I will at least be close to winning something for a few weeks. As a result my handicap decreases and I don't win anything for a while. Then the cycle repeats. Still, I'm a high handicapper and don't win often. Instead I focus on having fun and playing in a variety of formats.

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Wait until you play a 31 that shoots 84.....gross. Made the turn at -3 and was 5 down. Or a 12 that shoots 70...barely made the back 9. Main reason I don’t play any net events. My first club tournament this year will be the club championship. Actually that will be my only tournament at my club this year.


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The OGA (Oregon GolfAssoc) keeps your 2 lowest tournament scores as part of your handicap good 1 year. Maybe they need to be more aggressive with tournament scores when computing someone's handicap. On a similar note, I have a friend whose handicap became restricted because he went from a 6 handicap to a 12 in a short period of time. In his case, it was a medical issue and not cheating. But, it shows they do watch it. I just don't think they watch it closely enough

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3 hours ago, Jmikecpa said:

Wait until you play a 31 that shoots 84.....gross. Made the turn at -3 and was 5 down. Or a 12 that shoots 70...barely made the back 9. Main reason I don’t play any net events. My first club tournament this year will be the club championship. Actually that will be my only tournament at my club this year.


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Now that is PAINFUL!

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In special events like this, there should be gross and net winners. If it is team based with 2 man teams, there should be an percentage of the HcP that is used, it could be 50%, 60%. Something like that, 

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5 hours ago, Jmikecpa said:

Wait until you play a 31 that shoots 84.....gross. Made the turn at -3 and was 5 down. Or a 12 that shoots 70...barely made the back 9. Main reason I don’t play any net events. My first club tournament this year will be the club championship. Actually that will be my only tournament at my club this year.


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Now I remember why I’m not a competitive player...

thats just brutal..

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Now I remember why I’m not a competitive player...
thats just brutal..


Apparently at scratch I am not a competitive player either.


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2 hours ago, Jmikecpa said:

 


Apparently at scratch I am not a competitive player either.


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Not when you play in Net tourney’s you’re not. 

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I played an interclub match a couple years ago against a 14, i was giving 9 strokes on the match, I made the turn 3 up, and lost the match on 16, I lost 5 holes on the back 9 with a par. I made par on 5 holes out of 7 played, and lost all of them. He shot 36 on the back 9, even par. As a 14 Hcp. Sand bagging dude is what he was. I love competitive matches, but I don’t love the cheating that comes along with it. 

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