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Sluggo42

Low hdcp’ers are punished

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I playing in a flighted tournament once.  Basically, you went out and shot a score on day 1.  Then, they flighted the event based on your day 1 score.  On day 2, if you improved by 9 or more strokes, you were bumped up a flight.  Guy in my group on day 2 is 14 shots better than day 1 going into the last hole.  He proceeds to purposely tank the hole so he isn't bumped up...  I think he 8 or 9 putted and bragged about it.  

Cheaters will always find a way to cheat...  no matter what you do to try and stop them.  

On another note...  I once played an event and shot 36 on the front.  Some of my best golf ever...  then proceeded to come home in 50.  I hit several giant slice drives, chunks, tops, etc.  It was ugly.  Still finished 2nd in my flight with an 86.  Several guys in the group wanted to say I was a cheater but my playing partners stuck up for me because they could absolutely tell I hadn't done it on purpose.    

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I don’t play for money. I never trust any tournaments with big prizes or cash. I’ve seen scrambles where teams have been 15, 16 under and can’t sniff a thing. People do weird things for money and I’m not into donating to a cheater’s pocket.


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It’s not that low handicappers are punished it’s simply the way it works. Head to head a low handicapper has an advantage because he or show will shoot his handicap more consistently.

However once you have an unflighted or open event with full handicaps some mid to high handicap player is bound to catch fire and a low cap doesn’t stand a chance.

If it’s the same mid to high handicapper that’s always winning he’s cheating but if it’s different ones it’s exactly what you’d expect.

It is what it is under the current system - I figured this one out 35 years ago and have been selective about the types of tournaments that I’ve entered or managed my expectations ever since.


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On 5/6/2019 at 2:58 AM, Kor.A.Door said:

I played an interclub match a couple years ago against a 14, i was giving 9 strokes on the match, I made the turn 3 up, and lost the match on 16, I lost 5 holes on the back 9 with a par. I made par on 5 holes out of 7 played, and lost all of them. He shot 36 on the back 9, even par. As a 14 Hcp. Sand bagging dude is what he was. I love competitive matches, but I don’t love the cheating that comes along with it. 

A bit of controversy. I've been that guy in the past that you beat a player and they say to me you don't play of 14 and grumble all the way back to the clubhouse and it takes the shine of what could have been a great round. Matchplay is so much a mental game, you can have a bad hole and it is totally reset on the next tee, I get more aggressive on my putts.

Anyway I'm off tonight to play 1st round tie against a 2 handicapper giving me 5 strokes, wish me luck.

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I was a guest of my brother in law last year for his invitational. It was refreshing to hear how they’ve banned several guests from visiting clubs for embellishing their handicaps. It’s a start but you’ll never cure those without integrity.

 

My reputation is worth a heck of a lot more than a piece of gaudy crystal and a couple thousand bucks.

 

 

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1 hour ago, bens197 said:

 

My reputation is worth a heck of a lot more than a piece of gaudy crystal and a couple thousand bucks.

 

 

 

 

 There's no way that I could deal with myself knowing that other golfers looked at me as a cheater.  How do these guys live with themselves?   It's quite sad that people think so little of themselves that they actually brag about keeping their handicap high and then keep winning when it matters.  We have one guy at our club, that I outright call a cheater to his face and he just laughs it off and brags about his next  (net) win.  <SMH>   Goes out and plays with his wife and shoots 105.  Goes out to play with side wagers (or tournaments) and shoots 84.  This is a subject that really pisses me off, so I'll stop now before I say too much.  🙂

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4 hours ago, bens197 said:

I was a guest of my brother in law last year for his invitational. It was refreshing to hear how they’ve banned several guests from visiting clubs for embellishing their handicaps. It’s a start but you’ll never cure those without integrity.

 

My reputation is worth a heck of a lot more than a piece of gaudy crystal and a couple thousand bucks.

 

 

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There was a infamous couple that played the Mixed Open circuit in the UK. They would play their required 3 handicap qualifiers in the year to validate their handicaps then play Opens. Because it is doubles they would win the Open and  not be cut. They cleared up for 5 years until they started to banned and were blackballed. 

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There was a infamous couple that played the Mixed Open circuit in the UK. They would play their required 3 handicap qualifiers in the year to validate their handicaps then play Opens. Because it is doubles they would win the Open and  not be cut. They cleared up for 5 years until they started to banned and were blackballed. 


Cheaters justice.

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 There's no way that I could deal with myself knowing that other golfers looked at me as a cheater.  How do these guys live with themselves?   It's quite sad that people think so little of themselves that they actually brag about keeping their handicap high and then keep winning when it matters.  We have one guy at our club, that I outright call a cheater to his face and he just laughs it off and brags about his next  (net) win.     Goes out and plays with his wife and shoots 105.  Goes out to play with side wagers (or tournaments) and shoots 84.  This is a subject that really pisses me off, so I'll stop now before I say too much. 


They’re everywhere. Every. Single. Club.

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I just had an email exchange today with a “buddy” that wanted me to play his member guest. He asked what my odds were of getting my handicap up to a solid 6 or 7 so we can compete. I said not a shot if I want to play golf at my club and politely declined his invitation as I suddenly had other things to do that week. I show up at my club and say I am getting six pops when I get to the first tee and I will be banned from any club event for life.


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1 hour ago, Jmikecpa said:

I just had an email exchange today with a “buddy” that wanted me to play his member guest. He asked what my odds were of getting my handicap up to a solid 6 or 7 so we can compete. I said not a shot if I want to play golf at my club and politely declined his invitation as I suddenly had other things to do that week. I show up at my club and say I am getting six pops when I get to the first tee and I will be banned from any club event for life.


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Kudos to you!!! 

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21 hours ago, Alf. S said:

A bit of controversy. I've been that guy in the past that you beat a player and they say to me you don't play of 14 and grumble all the way back to the clubhouse and it takes the shine of what could have been a great round. Matchplay is so much a mental game, you can have a bad hole and it is totally reset on the next tee, I get more aggressive on my putts.

Anyway I'm off tonight to play 1st round tie against a 2 handicapper giving me 5 strokes, wish me luck.

Well I got pumped by the low handicapper 5 and 3. 4 down after 5 and never really recovered. After the 1st 5 holes it was to avoid the dog license (7 and 6 for our US cousins). On my stroke holes lost 3 out of 4 and halved the other!!!

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Never play a scramble for serious money, especially with people I don't know. Too many times do I see -18 or better for the winner. Got too much integrity for that nonsense.

IMHO any net tournament that isn't flighted is garbage too. You want to sandbag and win the C flight fine, but if you want to jam with the big boys you gotta make it real.

Take Dead Aim

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The league I played in for many years had a quota system which undoubtedly favored the high handicappers.  To keep the better players happy they also included skins in the weekly bets.  It's been a pretty peaceful agreement going on many years now.

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So...
why do I start very story with “so...”? 
So anyways, me and my buddy team up to play in the monthly club tourney. He’s a 4, and I’m a 5. We both shoot a 76 and were like 15 strokes away from the winners. They’re hi cappers, who seem to have a good round every time money’s on the line.
so what’s the point of even playing in these events? The low cappers never win crap.there is no room for any bad shots period. You can shoot scratch on a tough track and still lose by 10.
there needs to be a different process. I know it’s supposed to be “fair”, but it’s not fair for the low cappers. We never win. Even when we shoot well, it’s never even close.


We have a fundraiser that is the exact same. My group puts our honest handicap down, and guys who are retired and play every other day say they are 30 handicaps. We have no chance.

One year we shot -18 on our own ball, straight up. We didn’t even make the top 5.....


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For member-guests, the Member is responsible for the legitimacy of the guests handicap. If the guest is banned, the Member should also be banned. 

One thing we always say is “you can’t beat strokes”. If you are giving strokes you will have a hard time winning. It’s simple really. REV explained exactly the issue earlier. If the same guy is always winning the net games, then he is always cheating. If it’s different guys all the time, that’s golf. Anyone can have a good day at any point no matter the Hcp. 

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You guys summed that up pretty well, we've had the same thing (obviously) at my favorite tournament for our course.  It's called The British (we are a links course), held in Oct so it's usually cold and windy.  They set up the course really hard, pins in crazy places, speed the greens way up, play from the tips and a couple holes are extended even beyond the tips.  It's 2 man best ball but full handicap.  I've been playing this for 8 years and we see -12/-13 usually right in contention (for net)  Last year two guys from the neighboring course come in with mid-teen handicaps and shoot net 54.  Won by 6-7 strokes, we all knew what happened and our GM and Pro let them know to enjoy the trophy but they won't be invited back next year.

For our regular league we have a weekly event and opt in skins each week.  To help alleviate the handicap advantage we have net and gross skins and split the net in to A & B flights.  Then the regular weekly event is only net, but split in to 3 flights.  We changed the system last year and the payouts have been much more spread out and equitable across the league.  

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On 5/5/2019 at 11:54 AM, artful_golfer said:

I'm playing in a ladies tournament this week that does not use any handicaps in an effort to eliminate the sandbag issue. After play (2-person scramble) is complete, flights (6-8 teams in a flight) are created according to gross scores for that round only. You never know what flight you will be in.

I played in this tournament today. We had 24 teams, 3 flights of 8, and only kept gross scores. Scores ranged from 66 to 92. Winnings were awarded to 1st - 4th in each flight. No gripes from anyone about sandbagging, handicaps, flights or anything. It worked! My partner and I didn't win and neither did the team who played with us but ended up in a different flight. We did enjoyed playing, the camaraderie and great outdoors.

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