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Indian/Arrow  

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  1. 1. What’s more important? Having the proper ball and clubs or improving yourself as a player?

    • Indian
      53
    • Arrow
      2


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I just had an interesting discussion with some friends about the ball test. One has abandoned the chrome soft that he’ gamed last year (his handicap went up BTW), another just received his 6 dozen MTB black x’s. The fourth thinks it really doesn’t matter and will continue to play whatever he finds and throws in his bag.

 

So I’m wondering what you guys think - how much of the equation is the Indian and how much of it is the arrow? For the purpose of this discussion arose will include clubs and balls. Lessons and/or fitness plans and practice all impact the Indian

 

What’s more important having the proper ball and clubs or improving yourself as a player?

 

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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I think it depends on the level of improvement you are looking for and what time investment you are willing to put in. 

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:srixon-small:            ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S)

:titleist-small:            Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

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I thinking playing a good ball (for me a urethane) is important for many reasons. Some reasons are simply playing what you like or feels good to you. For most of us I don't think playing the highest rated most expensive ball by anyone is going to make you a better player or lower your handicap or scores. Certainly not amateurs like us forum members. Admittedly I don't want to play a Pinnacle Gold either or some other such rock. But, I know for a fact that if I play $4 ball (PV1) vs. a $2 ball (MGC4) my game doesn't suffer one bit. My game suffers when I - the indian play poorly - meaning ball striking. Has nothing to do with the ball - arrow. Never has.

I've mentioned many times in the forum that I'll play a variety of balls. With equal results. In the end it always boils down to me. The swinger of the club. 🏌️‍♂️

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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I believe the Indian is always the biggest variable by a wide margin. That’s not to say equipment doesn’t matter, but if you’re not doing your part, none of it really matters in the end. Equipment can help and make you better, no doubt, but you are in control of that equipment. As far as the ball goes, I loved the ball test. I feel like it gives me more information than I had before to pick a ball that lines up with my needs. I think the best thing an average weekend warrior like myself, and most people, can do is pick a ball they like and stick with it. You get used to it’s tendencies, good and bad, so you know what to expect. Nothing worse than hitting a good shot and being left scratching your head trying to figure out why it didn’t react the way you thought.


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Oh it's largely on the Indian. I think if a player has a consistent overall game, then they're going to find a way to score regardless of what they're playing. Sure there will be differences in distances and such with different gear, but ultimately I think being a solid player is where success on the golf course starts. 

:cobra-small: LTDx Black 10.5º | UST LIN-Q M40X TSPX Blue 6F4
:cobra-small: LTDx 3W 15º | UST LIN-Q M40X TSPX Blue 7F4
:ping-small: G425 3H 19º | UST Recoil Proto Hybrid 85F4
:srixon-small: Z785 4-PW | UST Recoil 125 Proto F4
:cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Tour Rack 50
º Mid, 54º Mid, 60º Mid | UST Recoil Wedge Proto F4
:EVNROLL: ER5BV | BGT Stability Tour

:bridgestone-small: Tour B X

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It’s a combo of both. The player will struggle if playing ill fitted equipment and will normally develop bad habits trying to fit swing/game to the bad equipment. With that said the player with good fundamentals can take advantage of the proper fitted gear and will be better and more consistent 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I think a lot of it depends on the level of player we're discussing.  A good player with solid and repeatable fundamentals will obviously see better benefits by a ball change than would a player who hooks one drive and slices the next one.  However, I believe even a higher handicap player will see good results by shifting to one ball that he likes and sticking with that ball, even if it isn't the "ideal perfect" ball available.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Hybrids: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Irons:  :callaway-small: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite  TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright

Wedges: Edison 53* and  57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright

Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft

Ball:  Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer...Shoes: :footjoy-small: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather

 

My Photography can be seen at Smugmug

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I think the equipment can help to add a little consistency,  but it is the overall skill of the player that is the biggest influence.   I can switch equipment (clubs or balls) and see some improvement or degradation in areas  but my scores won't vary that much.   I am not a huge believer in chasing specific numbers from equipment but finding the equipment that will benefit me.  Probably the area I focus on this the least is balls.  I am a find it play it player when it comes to balls.  I am selective on the type of balls I keep, but I haven't bought a new ball in many years and don't think I would see sudden improvements with a particular ball.   My issues are generally related to swing and contact that would only be improved by lessons.   The equipment would probably only have a large impact if it was grossly misfit.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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... Great topic Rev and no easy answer. I am with RickyBobby and think it is a combination of both. If you are a high index, over the top driver of the ball, producing a weak slice off the tee and playing a standard driver with too stiff of a shaft your arrow is making it extremely difficult. A softer shaft with a closed face, heel weighted draw biased driver can really help the Indian in this scenario. I could give plenty of other examples where the same would be true. 

... That said, I had students that really improved with lessons and others that improved a little and a few that never really improved. I think improving always trumps buying equipment IF you are wiling to put in the effort/time to make changes to improve. Surprisingly many are not and that is where equipment can make a difference. And of course the amount of people out there with decent swings that have never even heard of a golf forum and have very ill fitting equipment is just staggering. For them, equipment will most likely make as much or more of a difference than lessons.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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I think it is mostly Indian but if anyone followed my Launcher HB iron testing let me summarize. I never practice, just play. Handicap hovered between 12-15 for years. I was buying new irons every year blaming the arrows. Enter half ass fitted Launchers and handicap drops to 8.3. After fighting elbow pain wife thinks Launchers with stock graphite are the answer so I started gaming them and handicap is working it’s way right back up. My elbows feel great but the shafts are too light for me and my contact is all over the face. Got the steel Launchers out and shot my best round of the year.

My point is finding the right equipment really helps but without practice I have peaked as a golfer.


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Wedgie

 

Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5

:cleveland-small: - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid

:cobra-small: - F9 One Length 3-L

:EVNROLL: - ER 1.2

Top Flite Gamer

Play Right

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Wedgie said:

I think it is mostly Indian but if anyone followed my Launcher HB iron testing let me summarize. I never practice, just play. Handicap hovered between 12-15 for years. I was buying new irons every year blaming the arrows. Enter half ass fitted Launchers and handicap drops to 8.3. After fighting elbow pain wife thinks Launchers with stock graphite are the answer so I started gaming them and handicap is working it’s way right back up. My elbows feel great but the shafts are too light for me and my contact is all over the face. Got the steel Launchers out and shot my best round of the year.

My point is finding the right equipment really helps but without practice I have peaked as a golfer.

 

... I am sure you know this Wedgie, but just in case, there are plenty of really good mid and heavy weight graphite shafts available for irons you could put in those Launchers. Recoil 95/110's, Steelfiber 95 and 110's as well as Aldila VS Proto 100's and NV 105's to name a few. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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... I am sure you know this Wedgie, but just in case, there are plenty of really good mid and heavy weight graphite shafts available for irons you could put in those Launchers. Recoil 95/110's, Steelfiber 95 and 110's as well as Aldila VS Proto 100's and NV 105's to name a few. 

 

I am aware but finding a place where I can hit them has been the challenge. Screwing around with the Wilson D7 irons I found the KBS Tour 105 in stiff to be the best fit. Heavier weight seems to really help with my swing path and stiff helps with my quick transition.

 

The lighter shaft I get the more right the ball seems to go. I found a set of Mizunos, can’t remember which one, but they had Recoil 95s in them and the shaft seemed to be too much for me. Kinda strange huh! I have hit the D7s with the Recoil 460 and they felt awesome but I had no control.

 

 

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Wedgie

 

Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5

:cleveland-small: - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid

:cobra-small: - F9 One Length 3-L

:EVNROLL: - ER 1.2

Top Flite Gamer

Play Right

 

 

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... I started out with NV 130 Tour's many years ago and they were a hair too stout of a shaft for me but playable and cured my elbow problems. When Aldila came out with the NV 105 Pro's I was all in. The VS Proto 100's were equally good so I kept going and installed some VS Proto 85's and I too started making contact all over the face because they were just too light. 95gms seems to be my weight limit and I play them at D4 so they feel a little heavier than they really are. OEM's have recognized many find the stock 65gm and lighter shafts do not fit average golfers so there are a lot of 75-85 gm shafts installed as stock that are still too light for the better player or stronger swinger/hitter. It can be challenging to find 95/110/125 graphite shafts in irons to demo but they are just as good or even better in some instances, than comparable steel shafts but are much easier on elbows, shoulders and backs. I have been playing graphite in my irons for about 20 years now. 

Edited by chisag

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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... I started out with NV 130 Tour's many years ago and they were a hair too stout of a shaft for me but playable and cured my elbow problems. When Aldila came out with the NV 105 Pro's I was all in. The VS Proto 100's were equally good so I kept going and installed some VS Proto 85's and I too started making contact all over the face because they were just too light. 95gms seems to be my weight limit and I play them at D4 so they feel a little heavier than they really are. OEM's have recognized many find the stock 65gm and lighter shafts do not fit average golfers so there are a lot of 75-85 gm shafts installed as stock that are still too light for the better player or stronger winger/hitter. It can be challenging to find 95/110/125 graphite shafts in irons to demo but they are just as good or even better in some instances, than comparable steel shafts. 


Thank you for the input. Rumor has it that there will be a Launcher replacement coming soon and when that happens I’ll try to find a fitter that can put me in the right graphite shaft. It may be a swing weight issue, I just don’t know.


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Wedgie

 

Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5

:cleveland-small: - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid

:cobra-small: - F9 One Length 3-L

:EVNROLL: - ER 1.2

Top Flite Gamer

Play Right

 

 

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Assuming .. as others have mentioned .. that the equipment is not horribly ill-fitting and all wrong for the player, then .. imho .. it's unquestionably, undeniably, inarguably, absolutely the good ole Indian.

Yes, I agree a good player may play even better with "better" and better-fit equipment .. including the golf ball. And a not-so-good player may find the game a bit easier with the "right" equipment.

But desire and motivation trump all. (And lots and lots of dedicated practice.)

Some of you may have heard the name Kelly Slater? Multiple time World champion surfer, he is both the youngest and the oldest to have won the World title ... along with having won it the most number of times plus 5 consecutive years in a row. Imagine winning the US Open or The (British) Open 11 times over the past 25 years!!!

Anyway the point is.. with his talent he can surf on a door! An actual solid wood, raised panel door....

https://images.app.goo.gl/xu1GY4qc6TVSjG56A

And... He's like a 2 handicap.

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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Oops, kinda rambled on earlier....

Relative to Rev's original question -

For several seasons when I thought I had learned enough about the golf swing that I should be playing competently (ok you all may laugh .. loudly! .. at me now) I was quick to blame the equipment and kept changing out clubs. I improved - a little - but really just by virtue of continuing to play.

Late last season I finally fully convinced myself that it's *ME* .. all me, only me and nothing else .. holding me back. 

So I've been taking swing lessons, practicing a lot, reading about course management techniques, attended a mental game strategies clinic and been playing including 9 holes and Par 3s. 

And I'm really starting to make solid forward progress.

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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A point Mark Crossfield has made from time to time: while it's ultimately up to the Indian, new arrows can entice the Indian to practice and play more, and that can improve the Indian.

:titleist-small: TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

Full WITB with pictures

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23 hours ago, LeftyRM7 said:

I believe the Indian is always the biggest variable by a wide margin. That’s not to say equipment doesn’t matter, but if you’re not doing your part, none of it really matters in the end.

winner, winner, chicken dinner.  I'd venture to say it's a 80/20 relationship...maybe even 90/10.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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A player with sound technique will be able to adapt to the equipment. A weaker player really needs to be in equipment that does what it can to help correct his faults.
So I guess my answer is the better you are, the less the arrow matters.

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:callaway-small: Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X

:callaway-small: Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5

Back in the Bag :srixon-small: Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff

:vokey-small: 54 and 60

 

:bobby-grace-1: Amazing Grace Ass Kicker

 

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The Indian/player a zillion percent.

When I started playing there was no such thing as a fitting and we all knew nada about shafts, swingspeeds, kick points, flex etc etc

You bought a set (of blades) off the shelf you liked the look of and you went out and practiced till you could hit it well. When you couldnt you got a lesson till you could.

Driver     Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs)  
4 Wood   Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+  :callaway-small: Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex

Hybrid     Titleist 910H 19*    :titelist-small:   Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S'

Irons         Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW   :mizuno-small:  N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S'

Wedges    Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54*  :callaway-small:   KBS Tour in 'R'

Putter        'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5"

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On 5/12/2019 at 8:51 AM, gaussman1 said:

A player with sound technique will be able to adapt to the equipment. A weaker player really needs to be in equipment that does what it can to help correct his faults.
So I guess my answer is the better you are, the less the arrow matters.

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TLDR - MOSTLY Indian. At some points in development/skillset the arrows matter.

 

I wish there was a way to actually quantify this and graph it (because I am a nerd like that).

My best guess is that at a 20+ handicap it is 99% Indian. Swing is so wrong and non-repeatable that perfectly fitted top of the line clubs will make almost zero difference. AND older/smaller sweet spot clubs might be better because they would get better feedback on mishits during practice.

Somewhere between 19 and X HCP the player improves enough that fitting clubs and picking a single ball will help improve play. But a duffed/fatted/thinned/bladed/OTT-ed ball/iron combo will not make a driver go 240 down the middle no matter how perfect the fitting.

Somewhere between X and Y you get players that are good enough to surf on doors and can play any clubs well (plenty of YouTubers who play rounds with old school clubs under 80). At that point, moving to higher quality clubs and balls that allow more workability....

blah blah blah... I'm rambling. But I think there's some areas where the arrow provides decent return and some places where it wouldn't matter a bit and I'd love to see data and see it graphed.

Driver - :ping-small: G400 LST

3W & 4H - Orlimar High Energy 2

Irons - :cobra-small:F7 OL (5I - GW)

Wedges -  Top Flight Gamer Tour 52* 56* 60*

Putter - Orlimar HE2

Balls - Vice Pro

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A player with sound technique will be able to adapt to the equipment. A weaker player really needs to be in equipment that does what it can to help correct his faults.



Yes .. well said!

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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On 5/11/2019 at 8:46 AM, revkev said:

 

I just had an interesting discussion with some friends about the ball test. One has abandoned the chrome soft that he’ gamed last year (his handicap went up BTW), another just received his 6 dozen MTB black x’s. The fourth thinks it really doesn’t matter and will continue to play whatever he finds and throws in his bag.

 

So I’m wondering what you guys think - how much of the equation is the Indian and how much of it is the arrow? For the purpose of this discussion arose will include clubs and balls. Lessons and/or fitness plans and practice all impact the Indian

 

What’s more important having the proper ball and clubs or improving yourself as a player?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Have you ever watched Dustin Johnson hit a persimmon driver? Lol. That said, when it comes to the ball there is an obvious benefit to playing the same one on every shot - consistency. If you want to eliminate question marks and ensure that you "the Indian" are the deciding factor, get fit for your equipment and stick with it - at least for one or two seasons.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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Have you ever watched Dustin Johnson hit a persimmon driver? Lol. That said, when it comes to the ball there is an obvious benefit to playing the same one on every shot - consistency. If you want to eliminate question marks and ensure that you "the Indian" are the deciding factor, get fit for your equipment and stick with it - at least for one or two seasons.


Just please remember that Dustin Johnson was using a modern ball when hitting that drover. Regardless its unlikely that he could hang on the Hooters Tour if he were forced to use persimmon woods. His distance and accuracy would suffer despite what we saw on a few shots on video. Jack hit one 340 in the PGA long drive and that with balata, his average drive was 270 though.

I agree that the Indian is the most important element. What percent though?

The few studies that I’ve read suggest that most golfers play clubs that are too strong for their game - - I think you can get by with too weak over too strong beyond a doubt so I have little doubt that what the top fitters I’ve visited have told me is true mid to high caps who play frequently stand to gain the most from playing properly fit equipment - as much as 4-6 strokes. So I guess that’s about 5-7 percent better.

The ball is easy - any urethane ball in the top two categories of the MGS test and make it the same one the whole season. Just make it the same one to minimize a variable.

So 95-5 sounds about right to me.

Thanks for the replies and keep them coming.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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Absolutely the Indian... give new golfer  the best arrows (clubs/balls) and see how they perform. Give the pros lower quality arrows and theyd still be great. Can the best arrows help the best Indians, that's obviously a yes

Driver  :ping-small: G425 9* Hzrdus Smoke Green Small batch 6.5 70g

Fairway Wood:   image.jpeg.b9b42744cb10f0524500549b74545dd7.jpegCobra Radspeed Big 3 Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5

Hybrid:  image.jpeg.c5ec9f74aa563ad0246ab686b1c35eeb.jpegCobra Aerojet 5 Wood Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5

Irons:     :titelist-small: T200 (4-AW) AMT Black Stiff Shafts 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: Tour Rack 56* 60*

Putter:   :cameron-small: Scotty Cameron Golo 5

Right Handed 

Pittsburgh, PA

 

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3 hours ago, revkev said:

The few studies that I’ve read suggest that most golfers play clubs that are too strong for their game - - I think you can get by with too weak over too strong beyond a doubt so I have little doubt that what the top fitters I’ve visited have told me is true mid to high caps who play frequently stand to gain the most from playing properly fit equipment - as much as 4-6 strokes. So I guess that’s about 5-7 percent better.
 

 

 

... My personal pet peeve and a mission I have been on for many years is shortening the length of your driver. Tom Wishon did a ton of research and found 43" is best driver length for most am's. Considering you potentially lose 5-7yds for every 1/4" you miss the center of your driver and a full 1" miss is pretty normal for many am's, that's potentially 20-28 yds off the tee that is also straighter!!! And some miss by 1.5" - 2". This is one arrow that can make a huge difference for many Indians. With so many thinking OEM's engage in lies and hype, why they play a standard length driver at 45.5" is just mind boggling. OEMs know shorter is longer for most am's but they can't claim that because the next OEM uses a robot to hit their 45.5" and compared to a 44" driver can claim their driver is 10-20 yards longer. True for a robot but the exact opposite of most am's. Shorter drivers are longer and straighter. 

 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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Obviously I'll agree with the group, its its the Indian.  A good player can shoot a decent score with poor clubs, a poor player can't shoot a good score with the very best clubs.  Contrary to a few, I think equipment can make the largest difference for really good players.  By different, I guess I'm thinking of percentage improvement, rather than gross numbers.  Golf balls matter for fine-tuning, but still aren't critical.  Just as an example, I can show you a video log of two good players shooting -3 over 18 holes of alternate shot  using a purple  Top-Flite Diva ball.  Would they have been much lower with a ProV1, or any other "good" ball?

Moral of the story, spend time on getting good instruction and good practice.  

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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