Bounce issues

[pulledabill]

The last two weeks Ive played a couple nicer courses with tighter fairways and firmer lies around the greens. This wrecked my play with my wedges and I feel it is because I use high bounce wedges because on  most of the courses I play it works well that way. I feel it cost me 4 or 5 strokes my last two rounds. 

It seems I would benefit on one or two low bounce wedges? Anybody else ad or subtract wedges based on bounce and coursr conditions. 

 

[perseveringgolfer]

Interestingly I noted a post from the PGA today about Bethpage Black and the Tour guys rethinking their club set up this week as its very soft. Apart from some dropping a wedge to get another hybrid/long iron in the bag. But the thing that caught my eye was that some players are opting for high bounce wedges BUT some are changing to low bounce because its soft!

I think it really depends of how you play your wedges i.e skimmer or digger. I've never bought into the bounce/grind technicalities as I dont think any of us amateurs are good enough to implement it consistently.

I have a friend that drones on an on about what bounce and grind he has on his wedges, he's bought into the whole thing, but his wedge play is poor and breaking 90 a rarity

[Gopokes14]

I won a Callaway customized wedge in a tournament last year. I selected a 56 degree with 10 degrees of bounce vs my normal 8 degrees of bounce. Beautiful club and I immediately noticed that it would tend to throw the ball out of a sand trap way too far. It feels great but that bounce is hard for me to get used to. I also could not open it up much for a higher shot because that bounce tended to raise the lead edge a bit and on the tighter fairways around the courses here in Oklahoma, I couldn’t trust it. Probably just a preference because I see low handicap guys with 56.10 or even 54.12 and they will have 4 wedges! I would rather stick to the 3 wedges and open and close them (52.10, 56.8, 62.8). Then I can add length on the other end with a 3 wood and 3 iron hybrid etc...

[TR1PTIK]

On 5/15/2019 at 12:01 AM, pulledabill said:

The last two weeks Ive played a couple nicer courses with tighter fairways and firmer lies around the greens. This wrecked my play with my wedges and I feel it is because I use high bounce wedges because on  most of the courses I play it works well that way. I feel it cost me 4 or 5 strokes my last two rounds. 

It seems I would benefit on one or two low bounce wedges? Anybody else ad or subtract wedges based on bounce and coursr conditions. 

 

I just try to keep a good mix of bounce and grind options so I don’t have to swap clubs in and out of my bag. Currently though I’m lacking a good club for soft fluffy lies after putting the Bridgestone’s in my bag this year. Also, I tend to not dig a whole lot so lower bounce options are more playable in a variety of conditions - so basically I can get away with my current setup even if I don’t think it’s ideal.

[cnosil]

Probably just a preference because I see low handicap guys with 56.10 or even 54.12 and they will have 4 wedges! I would rather stick to the 3 wedges and open andclose them (52.10, 56.8, 62.8).

I have a 14* bounce wedge in my bag and do ok when I open the face. More too it than just bounce; have to consider grind and sole width. I am trying to educate myself more on wedges.

I think typically players vary the bounce amount on their various wedges with the sand wedge having the most and the lob having low bounce.

I can’t see your signature but you must be playing old clubs if your PW is 52*. Otherwise you have 4 wedges in your bag...PW, Gap, sand, and lob.

[fixyurdivot]

On 5/15/2019 at 4:11 AM, perseveringgolfer said:

I think it really depends of how you play your wedges i.e skimmer or digger. I've never bought into the bounce/grind technicalities as I dont think any of us amateurs are good enough to implement it consistently.

I agree with you and think you just described my dilemma.  I'm hoping the new Glide 2.0 56/12 and I become simpatico.  As more of a skimmer, I'm just hoping to get it and the other two wedgies to consistently deliver distances.  I'll be thrilled if/when I ever get to the point I'm assessing their bounce performance. Quite frankly, if they bounce on the green I'm happy. 

[revkev]

I’m so glad that I don’t have to deal with this anymore.

When I did I used a very standard set up, sand wedge very high bounce, lob wedge low bounce, GW moderate - I had all the bases covered that way.



Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[pulledabill]

I bought my Vokeys before I bought by new clubs so not only a slight gapping issue, but a bounce issue as well.  I need to find a place where I can test different grinds and bounces off grass and not just mats. 

I think what I need is a low bounce 60 degree when I play tighter lies and utilize 8i or 9i when I can bump and run. 

[Kanoito]

17 hours ago, revkev said:

I’m so glad that I don’t have to deal with this anymore.

When I did I used a very standard set up, sand wedge very high bounce, lob wedge low bounce, GW moderate - I had all the bases covered that way.



Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

That's how I do it as well and it really covers all the shots that I would normally attempt.

[Sluggo42]

On 6/18/2019 at 5:36 AM, cnosil said:

 

I have a 14* bounce wedge in my bag and do ok when I open the face. More too it than just bounce; have to consider grind and sole width. I am trying to educate myself more on wedges.

.

 

So true. I’m not really well versed on grinds either but they play a role as well. My track has really tight fairways, but I can lay my sub 70 58° lob open right to where I can swing quite firmly, and the wedge will basically “bounce” off the ground without any divot at all, and play a short high “flop” that darn near stops where it lands.

this is where the grind comes into play I think, as the heel can easily slip under the ball without skulling the shot. So I’ve learned how far that will go, with my particular club. I’m guessing most every wedge has that point to some degree, but I don’t know how every scenario plays out. But that wedge has 10° of bounce. I’d suggest playing with laying your wedge open at the practice site and experiment finding that “sweet spot” of how much you can lay it open without fear of skulling or digging, and then make a determination of whether you can work with that or not...

it is a complicated part of understanding wedges, that I am not a master of either, but I know what will work for me with my current wedges

[Gopokes14]

On 6/18/2019 at 7:36 AM, cnosil said:

 

I have a 14* bounce wedge in my bag and do ok when I open the face. More too it than just bounce; have to consider grind and sole width. I am trying to educate myself more on wedges.

I think typically players vary the bounce amount on their various wedges with the sand wedge having the most and the lob having low bounce.

I can’t see your signature but you must be playing old clubs if your PW is 52*. Otherwise you have 4 wedges in your bag...PW, Gap, sand, and lob.

 

You are right about me having 4 wedges, pw is 45.7, gw 50.11, sw 56.8, lob 62.8. They are only a couple of years old but I had to look up the specs on the other 2 and I was even wrong about the gap being 52 degrees. Lol. The titleist sm6’s have the specs right on the head and my Callaways don’t. The ground is kind of hard here most of the year, so when it’s soft/wet or I’m in Florida or Arizona where there is sandy base under the grass, I notice that I have to be very careful hitting flip shots or  I will dig them up with the lower bounce.

 

Btw, I think you can go into account settings and turn on “see other posts signatures” or something like that. But I updated my specs after this discussion. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Gopokes14
Typo and additional info

[Mr. 82]

I'm really wondering if I am overthinking the bounce on wedges.  Here is my current setup.  

• PW - PING i200 (45° with 13° bounce) (Used on full shots and bump and run chip shots around the green)
• GW - PING G700 (49° with 12° bounce) (Used on full 115 yard shots)
• SW - PING G700 (54° with 13° bounce) (Used on full 100 yard shots)
• LW - Cleveland RTX3 (58° with 9° bounce) (Used from 90 yards and in, sand shots, and on green side chips)

My biggest annoyance at the moment is with my SW and GW, when I have those full shots from those yardages.  I am noticing more of a tendency to chunk these full shots with these clubs.  I am a major digger of divots on these shots, and the fairways at my home course have some of the tighest lies around.  I tried a low bounce 54° wedge this last weekend and it won't work for me, because of the lack of distance on this club.  I can typically only get 95 yards out of it, and I need something to go the full 100 yards consistently with the 54°.  The G700 SW definitely goes that full 100 yards when I connect, but with the tight fairways I am struggling a bit to make solid contact.

Am I overthinking the high bounce in these clubs being too much? 

I was messing around on the Vokey website earlier and it fitted me for a 54° SW with an S Grind and 10° of bounce.  It also suggested I get a 58° wedge with the D grind and 12° of bounce.  I mean, I use that 58° a LOT ON those tight lies in the fairway.  I don't want a 12° bounce screwing up a club I am fairly happy with at the moment, but the computer just spit out data based on what I told it I did/needed.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated as I am so confused honestly.

 

[THEZIPR23]

4 hours ago, GSwag said:

I'm really wondering if I am overthinking the bounce on wedges.  Here is my current setup.  

• PW - PING i200 (45° with 13° bounce) (Used on full shots and bump and run chip shots around the green)
• GW - PING G700 (49° with 12° bounce) (Used on full 115 yard shots)
• SW - PING G700 (54° with 13° bounce) (Used on full 100 yard shots)
• LW - Cleveland RTX3 (58° with 9° bounce) (Used from 90 yards and in, sand shots, and on green side chips)

My biggest annoyance at the moment is with my SW and GW, when I have those full shots from those yardages.  I am noticing more of a tendency to chunk these full shots with these clubs.  I am a major digger of divots on these shots, and the fairways at my home course have some of the tighest lies around.  I tried a low bounce 54° wedge this last weekend and it won't work for me, because of the lack of distance on this club.  I can typically only get 95 yards out of it, and I need something to go the full 100 yards consistently with the 54°.  The G700 SW definitely goes that full 100 yards when I connect, but with the tight fairways I am struggling a bit to make solid contact.

Am I overthinking the high bounce in these clubs being too much? 

I was messing around on the Vokey website earlier and it fitted me for a 54° SW with an S Grind and 10° of bounce.  It also suggested I get a 58° wedge with the D grind and 12° of bounce.  I mean, I use that 58° a LOT ON those tight lies in the fairway.  I don't want a 12° bounce screwing up a club I am fairly happy with at the moment, but the computer just spit out data based on what I told it I did/needed.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated as I am so confused honestly.

 

I am not a bounce expert by any means, however in my experience as a digger you would benefit from the higher bounce. As far as the 58* I think that the grind is more important than the bounce. I use my 60* for almost everything from 80 yards and in and having the ability to hit different shots has been beneficial to my game.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

6 hours ago, GSwag said:

I'm really wondering if I am overthinking the bounce on wedges.  Here is my current setup.  

• PW - PING i200 (45° with 13° bounce) (Used on full shots and bump and run chip shots around the green)
• GW - PING G700 (49° with 12° bounce) (Used on full 115 yard shots)
• SW - PING G700 (54° with 13° bounce) (Used on full 100 yard shots)
• LW - Cleveland RTX3 (58° with 9° bounce) (Used from 90 yards and in, sand shots, and on green side chips)

My biggest annoyance at the moment is with my SW and GW, when I have those full shots from those yardages.  I am noticing more of a tendency to chunk these full shots with these clubs.  I am a major digger of divots on these shots, and the fairways at my home course have some of the tighest lies around.  I tried a low bounce 54° wedge this last weekend and it won't work for me, because of the lack of distance on this club.  I can typically only get 95 yards out of it, and I need something to go the full 100 yards consistently with the 54°.  The G700 SW definitely goes that full 100 yards when I connect, but with the tight fairways I am struggling a bit to make solid contact.

Am I overthinking the high bounce in these clubs being too much? 

I was messing around on the Vokey website earlier and it fitted me for a 54° SW with an S Grind and 10° of bounce.  It also suggested I get a 58° wedge with the D grind and 12° of bounce.  I mean, I use that 58° a LOT ON those tight lies in the fairway.  I don't want a 12° bounce screwing up a club I am fairly happy with at the moment, but the computer just spit out data based on what I told it I did/needed.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated as I am so confused honestly.

 

Digging and tight lies are a bad combo as are high bounce wedges and tight lies.

generally tight lies a low bounce wedge and a shallow of angle of attack is best.

for diggers 10* plus is a recommended bounce option.

you are in a bad spot. need to learn to shallow your swing with wedges.

[cnosil]

20 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Digging and tight lies are a bad combo as are high bounce wedges and tight lies.

generally tight lies a low bounce wedge and a shallow of angle of attack is best.

for diggers 10* plus is a recommended bounce option.

you are in a bad spot. need to learn to shallow your swing with wedges.

I used to have this thought as well.  While it may make it easier,  proper technique is probably more important.   After my lesson,  my technique significantly improved and I can hit my high bounce wedge off tight hard lies.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

34 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I used to have this thought as well.  While it may make it easier,  proper technique is probably more important.   After my lesson,  my technique significantly improved and I can hit my high bounce wedge off tight hard lies.  

Agree technique even with higher bounce will work and also the cheaper option compared to buying new wedges.

[HardcoreLooper]

38 minutes ago, cnosil said:

After my lesson,  my technique significantly improved and I can hit my high bounce wedge off tight hard lies.  

When I had 17 year-old hands, I could hit a high-bounce wedge off a cart path.  I'm a much bigger fan of the bump and run these days.  

I actually have no idea what the actual bounce is on the F8 wedges, but I'm pretty sure that the GW (49*) and LW (58*) are low, while the SW (54*) is high.  I don't worry too much about bounce on full-swing shots, but for touch shots, I'll use the SW if it's mushy and the LW if it's like concrete.

[pulledabill]

As the OP I have yet to change my wedge setup or add low bounce high loft wedge. Going backand forth on new irons so waiting to see if I give in before changing wedges. 

Since I first posted on this I worked on better contact, focus, and set up to get me by. I did go to my low bounce 52 at times which helped if I had room to work. 

[HardcoreLooper]

22 hours ago, pulledabill said:

I have yet to change my wedge setup or add low bounce high loft wedge

I have an old Vokey 60/04* that I'm willing to let go of cheap.  It's unhittable for me.

[pulledabill]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:36 AM, cnosil said:

 

 

I have a 14* bounce wedge in my bag and do ok when I open the face. More too it than just bounce; have to consider grind and sole width. I am trying to educate myself more on wedges.

I think typically players vary the bounce amount on their various wedges with the sand wedge having the most and the lob having low bounce.

I can’t see your signature but you must be playing old clubs if your PW is 52*. Otherwise you have 4 wedges in your bag...PW, Gap, sand, and lob.

 

Actually playing 716 Ap2's.  Set wedges are 43 and 47. Next is an old low bounce 52 bent to 51, then a SM7 54 (8), and a SM7 58 (12).  I am going to find an old low bounce 60 to play with before I move forward.  I am considering new irons and will end up with a 60 degree one way or another as I feel like in the summer during some of my tournaments that I really need a 60 on some of the hard greens I play. 

[BIG STU]

I know I am late to this party but will comment--- One thing that was not mentioned is the difference between bounce and effective bounce. I recommend anyone order the Maltby Video from Golf Works that is called How Wedges Work. It is inexpensive and a wealth of knowledge. One thing that has to do with effective bounce is the sole design and there is no industry standard of how to measure bounce "correctly" Maltby also sells a set of triangular gauges that help measure bounce some. I will cheat and use those but I can use a protractor and straight edge too. There are also different leading edge grinds on wedges too and depending on one's Angle of Attack that can have overall effect too. Personally because of the type clubs I play I use overall low bounce wedges in all conditions. But my swing is my own from all the years I have played. I will tell you on my 60 I use a Scratch JLM / EGG grind which has a scalloped edge on the leading edge of the sole and a low sharp leading edge. That club is only used on green side bunker shots. I also use a very steep AOA on green side bunker shots. Right now I am not using a Scratch wedge but have several of my 588s ground like that. In fact right now believe it or not I am using an old Ping Zing 60 that has the exact grind from the factory. Just figured I would give my insight but will give a disclaimer--- Jut because it works for me does not mean it will work for anyone else 

[BIG STU]

8 hours ago, Middler said:

I carry a 56.10 for sand and a 60.06 for tight lies (home course is Bermuda, mostly tight lies). I can use the 56.10 from fluffy lies some. That’s served me well.

Last week I left the 56.10 at home to try another club at the other end of my bag, planning to use the 60.06 from sand If needed. I’ll never do that again! Hit three traps (a lot for me), and had a tough time blasting out as the low bounce wanted to dig no matter how much I opened the face. I knew that, but it was much worse than I expected.

That is an exact example of effective bounce due to sole grind NOT working for you. From what you are saying the sole grind on that wedge has to be absolutely flat. From what you are saying there is no effective bounce in other words the bounce stays the same no matter if you open the face or not

[revkev]

Back at GSwag

There are two things that could be in play for you.  You're a little North of me.  They are over seeding our courses right now.  Have they over seeded the course that you are playing?  That transition period is really tough because they water the you know what out of the overseeded portions of the course.  If the Bermuda or summer grass is no longer growing you get tons of tight, wet lies.  That's a problem even for a buy with a shallower swing (like me.)  You need to bear down, focus on those shots and grin and bear it.  If however this has been a season long issue for you it might be a great idea to take a lesson focusing on your wedge play.

 

Good luck

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, Middler said:

Not following, I probably don’t know enough about grind shapes. Bounce is easy to see and understand.

I bought a high bounce 56 with sand in mind, and very deliberately a low bounce 60 so I’d have something high loft for grass especially tight lies. I never planned or used the 60 from sand. 

It wasn’t altogether unexpected, but I was surprised at how dramatically different the two were from sand, and bounce is the major difference. I assumed if I laid the face open the lower bounce 60 would be OK from sand, it was NOT! I’ll never leave my 56.10 out of the bag again...

That Maltby book or CD would be beneficial to you to help understand. I have messed with wedge grinds for years and that CD helped enlighten me on exactly why I was learning what I was learning. It is sorta complicated with me but when I learn something on my own I want to know why and if my perspective was correct

Edited November 24, 2019 by BIG STU

[Mr. 82]

5 hours ago, revkev said:

Back at GSwag

There are two things that could be in play for you.  You're a little North of me.  They are over seeding our courses right now.  Have they over seeded the course that you are playing?  That transition period is really tough because they water the you know what out of the overseeded portions of the course.  If the Bermuda or summer grass is no longer growing you get tons of tight, wet lies.  That's a problem even for a buy with a shallower swing (like me.)  You need to bear down, focus on those shots and grin and bear it.  If however this has been a season long issue for you it might be a great idea to take a lesson focusing on your wedge play.

 

Good luck

you are spot on @revkev  They overseeded the tee boxes of the par 3s with Rye, and they are fine, but there are a handful of holes in the wedge scoring range, that have lost a LOT of bermuda, and when you take a divot you'll chunk it unless you are razor focused mentally to make sure and hit ball first, as it's as tight a lie as you'll see anywhere, and if you miss, it's a chunk with something short of the green.  And yeah, I just grin and bear it and know that it's approaching winter, and I need to just be happy to be able to be playing this time of year, as I know my northern friends are already cursing the cold and the white stuff coming down from heaven.

I've actually switched out my old wedges for new ones, and so far I am extremely satisfied with the results.  And outside of a few bad swings, I know it's the indian and not the arrows.

I do appreciate the feedback though, as I value the knowledge of those more experienced than me here at MGS.  

[silver & black]

Can someone explain what the different grinds do/are for?

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, silver & black said:

Can someone explain what the different grinds do/are for?

Here is Titleist's explanation:

https://www.vokey.com/explained/wedge-grinds#

 

[BIG STU]

On 11/24/2019 at 3:54 PM, GSwag said:

you are spot on @revkev  They overseeded the tee boxes of the par 3s with Rye, and they are fine, but there are a handful of holes in the wedge scoring range, that have lost a LOT of bermuda, and when you take a divot you'll chunk it unless you are razor focused mentally to make sure and hit ball first, as it's as tight a lie as you'll see anywhere, and if you miss, it's a chunk with something short of the green.  And yeah, I just grin and bear it and know that it's approaching winter, and I need to just be happy to be able to be playing this time of year, as I know my northern friends are already cursing the cold and the white stuff coming down from heaven.

I've actually switched out my old wedges for new ones, and so far I am extremely satisfied with the results.  And outside of a few bad swings, I know it's the indian and not the arrows.

I do appreciate the feedback though, as I value the knowledge of those more experienced than me here at MGS.  

Tee hee heeee  One of the advantages of carrying a 48* butter knifed PW I can manipulate ( see signature) Yep darn near *0 bounce from any position---- Yep I can rotate it open to like 52* with no bounce effect---- Something us old schoolers know.