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cnosil

Wedge Grinds

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Did a quick Search and didn’t find a topic about wedge grinds. Wedges are probably the club that I know the least about so I am trying to learn more so I can fit the right clubs for me.

 

I understand bounce and how bounce works. My question is about the grinds. I graspbthe concept for grinds and how they are supposed to help you with specific shots. Do you consider grinds when picking wedges or do you just go general purpose. Some companies doesn’t even offer grind options.

 

I use all my wedges for full swing as well as opening them for around the green shots. I know the best option is to try them, but I haven’t found a demo day that would cater to being able to see which would work best.

 

Do you consider grind or do you just focus on bounce and why?

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This is on my to do list.

I am going to get some Vokey’s next time around, so I’m going to try them all if I can.

I like a wide sole wedge, intrigued by the K grind.

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.

 

I like a wide sole wedge, intrigued by the K grind.

 

Which to me is odd based on my understanding. Your short game thread shows that you open the blade as far as you can which isn’t what a wide sole is designed for. Wide dole should lift the leading edge off the ground.

 

Though All my understanding is from reading and watching videos. Would love to spend a couple of hours doing hands on testing. Can’t afford to buy all different kinds based on course conditions

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Which to me is odd based on my understanding. Your short game thread shows that you open the blade as far as you can which isn’t what a wide sole is designed for. Wide dole should lift the leading edge off the ground.
 
Though All my understanding is from reading and watching videos. Would love to spend a couple of hours doing hands on testing. Can’t afford to buy all different kinds based on course conditions


Could all change for me if I get to a better kept course. But it is also why the Hogan Ft Worth’s are interesting to me, the PW has a fat sole and they get skinnier on the way up. Makes sense to me.

The fairways are pretty long here for the most part.

Not comparing us to the pros on TV, but there are quite a few of them that have wider soles on wedges then you’d think.

I remember reading when Wilson signed Woodland, they are working on a wider sole wedge for him. Pretty sure that was in the blog post.
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

Did a quick Search and didn’t find a topic about wedge grinds. Wedges are probably the club that I know the least about so I am trying to learn more so I can fit the right clubs for me.

 

I understand bounce and how bounce works. My question is about the grinds. I graspbthe concept for grinds and how they are supposed to help you with specific shots. Do you consider grinds when picking wedges or do you just go general purpose. Some companies doesn’t even offer grind options.

 

I use all my wedges for full swing as well as opening them for around the green shots. I know the best option is to try them, but I haven’t found a demo day that would cater to being able to see which would work best.

 

Do you consider grind or do you just focus on bounce and why?

 

I always consider grinds and I always like to have 2 - 3 different grinds in my wedge set. I'd also recommend using lob wedges (58-64) as specialty wedges for shots closer to the green. Distance control on a full swing with high lofted wedges can often be tricky and inconsistent. Enough about that though, back to wedge grinds...

My wedge set consists of a 46, 50, 54, and 58. the 46 is the standard PW that came with my iron set and has a full grind. Next is my 50 with a pretty full grind, but does feature some relief on the trailing edge - I use this wedge for full swings, pitches, and chips. After that we get to my 54... Currently, I'm gaming the Bridgestone Tour B XW-1's and the 54 uses their M grind. This grind offers considerable amounts of heel and toe relief for opening the face. Typically, I would choose something with a little more material on the sole for my SW to help with fluffier lies, but Bridgestone only offers the 54 in this grind. Finally, we get to my 58 which features the same M grind found on my 54. In this loft configuration, I rely on the heel and toe relief quite a bit. Like I said before, this is a specialty wedge. I use this wedge to play shots that need to go up, come down, and stop quickly. The heel relief is helpful in the sand and with fluffy lies, while the toe relief helps with firmer, tight lies. Perhaps that's not the best or preferred way to use heel and toe relief, but that's generally how I use it.

There are a variety of shots that can be played into and directly around the green. As such, a variety of grind and bounce options can really come in handy. I think the wedge I am least happy with is my 54. I'd much rather have a "fuller" grind with medium bounce as I've discovered this works well for me in thick rough and in bunkers where the sand is extremely soft because the extra material on the sole effectively serves as extra bounce when opening the face of the club. Currently with the M grind, soft sand can render an issue where the club digs more than I'd like it to.

Edited by TR1PTIK
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It should never be about one or the other.  Wedges are all about the full picture.  Bounce, Grind, sole width and camber all play a role in how a wedge will perform.  

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I consider all aspects of the sole design when I look at wedges.  Like you, I use all my wedges for both short game and full shots.  Given that our conditions vary greatly over the season, I tend to look at fuller grinds with medium levels of bounce.  I do lose the ability to open the face a ton but otherwise I am quite happy with my set up at present (I'm using the Maltby M+ wedges).

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It should never be about one or the other.  Wedges are all about the full picture.  Bounce, Grind, sole width and camber all play a role in how a wedge will perform.  


I don’t think I disagree. So you should never buy wedges from a company that only offers one grind or hope that what they sell is right for you? Very few company’s really offer multiple grind options.

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I consider all aspects of the sole design when I look at wedges.  Like you, I use all my wedges for both short game and full shots.  Given that our conditions vary greatly over the season, I tend to look at fuller grinds with medium levels of bounce.  I do lose the ability to open the face a ton but otherwise I am quite happy with my set up at present (I'm using the Maltby M+ wedges).

What do you consider and how does that influence your decision making? Sounds like you picked full grind medium bounce. Is that for all wedges or some of them? How do you k kwnyou have the right wedges?

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


I don’t think I disagree. So you should never buy wedges from a company that only offers one grind or hope that what they sell is right for you? Very few company’s really offer multiple grind options.

 

I don't see why someone would settle for a club that didn't fit them - and that goes for wedges just as any other club.

For me to buy a low bounce lob wedge, or a lob wedge without any heel relief would be like me buying a driver that was overly draw-biased.  It just wouldn't fit my swing and what I need the club to do.

I found the Vokey wedge selector tool pretty darn accurate for an online fitting tool. 

https://www.vokey.com/tools/wedge-selector-tool.asp

You could even take the basic recommendations from the tool and apply them to other brands (ie lofts, bounce types and relief types) 

 

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6 minutes ago, jlukes said:

I don't see why someone would settle for a club that didn't fit them - and that goes for wedges just as any other club.

For me to buy a low bounce lob wedge, or a lob wedge without any heel relief would be like me buying a driver that was overly draw-biased.  It just wouldn't fit my swing and what I need the club to do.

I found the Vokey wedge selector tool pretty darn accurate for an online fitting tool. 

https://www.vokey.com/tools/wedge-selector-tool.asp

You could even take the basic recommendations from the tool and apply them to other brands (ie lofts, bounce types and relief types) 

 

This is why the variety is so important.  I wouldn’t play a lob wedge that had anything more than 8* bounce.  I’m a classic M grind for my lob and its worked well since I am not much of a digger.

I will second the Vokey tool.  It is about as good as it gets for narrowing you down until you can get hands on and truly experiment.  

Ive actually taken advantage of prior year closeouts and used my grinder at home to experiment with grinds.  A lot of open face soft hand shots with higher loft wedges required some heel relief and I could get reallly creative.  One word of caution, don’t be afraid to throw away your product; this isn’t as simple as brushing your teeth.

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6 minutes ago, cnosil said:

What do you consider and how does that influence your decision making? Sounds like you picked full grind medium bounce. Is that for all wedges or some of them? How do you k kwnyou have the right wedges?

I consider what I ask from each wedge and in what conditions I will be playing.  Since I play full shots with all the wedges, that eliminates low bounce and/or really aggressive grinds for me.  I do not hit those well on full shots when conditions are soft (like they are now). 

My daughter, who plays collegiate golf, uses her 60 only around the green and has a pretty aggressive (fair amount of heel/toe relief) grind on that.  Since she plays on courses with pretty soft bunkers, she has a very high bounce sand wedge.  She does most of her longer or bump/run chipping with her 52 which has a full grind.

Yep, all 3 of mine are pretty much mid bounce, full grind and reasonably wide sole.  The 52 is the tour sole and the 56 and 60 are the mid sole if you look at the Golfworks site.

 

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I had an iron fitting last fall and before I left we got to talking a bit about wedges. One interesting thing the fitter said was that the most common setup he ends up recommending is to use the same grind for both SW & LW, and then set wedges for PW & GW. It seemed counter-intuitive to me on the SW & LW part, but his theory was that for the average amateur, the consistency of turf interaction provides more benefit than the versatility provided by various grinds. I think unless you're able to get a lot of practice working on the varying shots that you hope to take advantage of with multiple wedge grinds, this concept is pretty logical.

 

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I will echo what others have said about using the Vokey tool. Once you have a baseline you can order the SM7 Raw and get additional grinds as well. I have been using specialty grinds on my wedges for the past 15 years or so. I initially started with Ping WRX department and while they have changed some of the names of their grinds, they are all still available. Vokey has added 5 grinds to their hand grind options you can order online and they do a good job of explaining those. This is not to be confused with their standard grind designations (F, S, M, D, L). The options are nearly endless but I would say variety is important and when you find what works - in conjunction with bounce, camber, etc - it is a game changer. I need to replace my Fourteen 58* but it's so good - I don't want too. Just yesterday I got up and down from 39, 50, and 66 with that club. The arrow is a big part of why the indian was able to do so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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13 hours ago, cnosil said:

 


I don’t think I disagree. So you should never buy wedges from a company that only offers one grind or hope that what they sell is right for you? Very few company’s really offer multiple grind options.

 

I'm sure some people just have an abundance of skill to where they could make due with anything, but in today's era, why? Even the guys on tour will swap out wedges to help them in the conditions they're playing that week. As someone who isn't as good as them, I don't see a point in trying to make it harder on myself, and I'd rather have something that will help me for the conditions I typically play in. I live on a tropical island so I guess the conditions part is easier for me than for guys who play in a variety of conditions.

Now that I've been playing once or twice a week on a regular basis year round, I know where my current wedges fall short which is why I'm in the market for new ones :)

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On 5/16/2019 at 12:54 PM, cnosil said:

 

Did a quick Search and didn’t find a topic about wedge grinds. Wedges are probably the club that I know the least about so I am trying to learn more so I can fit the right clubs for me.

 

I understand bounce and how bounce works. My question is about the grinds. I graspbthe concept for grinds and how they are supposed to help you with specific shots. Do you consider grinds when picking wedges or do you just go general purpose. Some companies doesn’t even offer grind options.

 

I use all my wedges for full swing as well as opening them for around the green shots. I know the best option is to try them, but I haven’t found a demo day that would cater to being able to see which would work best.

 

Do you consider grind or do you just focus on bounce and why?

 

I thought quite a bit more about this when I played last evening with the kids.  When I started playing, lob wedges were curiosities and sand wedges, even in blades, matched the set.  Many of the people I played with carried nothing higher lofted than a pitching wedge (keeping in mind that a pitching wedge had a loft of 48-50 in those days).  The clubs dictated in great part how you played your short game because you had very limited grind and loft options.  Now you can buy clubs that facilitate the way you want to play (like hit high flops, etc).  That really is confusing as I look at it from your perspective.

You might have to decide your short game strategy to help you narrow the field.  In my case, I play the least loft I can to execute the shot.  If my lie is good, I do not have to carry much rough and I have a lot of green to work with, I will happily chip with a 6 or 8 iron.  On stock shots with my wedges, I open the face slightly to expose the bounce and thump the ground/ball.  This is why, in addition to full shot needs, I like my wedges to have similar soles and grinds.  

Maybe it would be beneficial to actually chart you short game needs for a few rounds?  Do you have the need to hit many/any flop shots?  How many bump and runs, etc.?

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