The Search is Over

[fixyurdivot]

Well fellow spies, I'm on the verge of submitting an order for a new set of irons (but need some final advice, please read on).  Yes, it's true, the earth stopped spinning momentarily and the birds fell silent. After a years worth of research, input from fellow forum members, and 3 iron fittings, my beloved PingEye 2's will soon be sitting idle. Last year in my "Former PE2 Players" thread, I took the first step along this perilous road called "Shiny Metal".  That is to say I had, at that time, recently attended a PING Demo and tested the G400's.  Having just upgraded from my 90's circa driver and seeing the big shift in driving performance, I succumbed to the idea that similar results could be achieved by upgrading from my 80's circa irons.  But, this is where it became a real challenge.  There are so many products out there - all promising to be the best golf iron on the market.  While the numbers from the G400 demo were positive they, unlike what I experienced with the change in driver, were not dramatic.  Initially I kept telling myself that the PE2's are good enough.  I hit them well, have distances pretty well dialed, and I'm just chasing hyped marketing.  But something kept nagging at me.  As much as the frugal, stubborn German-Irish part of me resisted, shiny metal objects kept beckoning .

So, last May I sought the help of a PGA club fitter in Bozeman, MT.  I shared the details of that fitting in the aforementioned thread.  I left that fitting thinking the G400's or Mizuno's were going to get the nod...but time went by, I continued good play with my PE2's and that thinking ebbed away. Then another MGS thread and review would come up, rekindling that nagging question.  I spent much of the back half of 2018 and most of this year reading and researching golf irons.  Unfortunately, Yuma, AZ does not have any good golf shops and our home here in MT - well, let's just say if fly rods and golf irons were one in the same, I'd be the envy of the golfing community.  There were a handful of irons I wanted to test, but they were not readily available. Sure Phoenix and Missoula are only 3 hours drive, but that's still a long day and not real convenient.  

As part of my stage 2 review of the G410 Plus driver, I had planned to get some comparison data done at my fitter in Bozeman.  He had just picked up the KZG line and I had only added confusion to my search for new irons by having range tested the Callaway Apex, PING's i500, i210, G410, and Titleist AP1 while in Yuma. So, I opted to do another iron fitting yesterday and see what panned out.

Based on my winters testing, I was leaning towards the G410's.  These hit the best/most consistent; so following another data baseline using my PE2 7i, we moved to the G410. I was picking up a club+ worth of carry distance with the Project X 5.5 LZ shaft we had matched with the G400's from last year.  What Woody was seeing however is that my contact area tended to be in the toe area.  We switched to Pings CB graphite shaft (told him I was wondering about a non-steel option) and did see a slight increase in swing speed, but no shift in contact area.  We then changed to a +1 length (my PE2's are +1/2) and that did move the strike zone towards center - and increased carry in the neighborhood of 2 clubs!  Dispersion was roughly the same as my PE2's and ball flight the slight left to right fade.

I then tried the KZG LDI's and XCB's.  KZG makes their own brand of shafts and I tried those with both steel and graphite.  Neither really outperformed the G410's.  Might others that I was simply unable to test been even better (Srixon Z585,Wilson D7's, etc.)?  Perhaps, but at some point you just have to make a decision - and that decision is a brand new set of PING G410's. My only question now, and one that I'm hoping you guys can help with, is whether to get the PW, UW, SW, and LW or ??   I've only had/played the PE2 PW and have my Dad's old SW which I'm unsure of specs. Might a switch to the power loft in some or all of the wedges be an option?

Here is a comparison of the PE2 lofts with the G410 (in standard loft)

Iron	Ping Eye 2	G410 (std. loft)	G410 (power loft)
4	25.0	20.5	19.0
5	28.5	23.5	22.0
6	32.0	26.5	25.0
7	36.0	30.0	28.5
8	40.0	34.5	32.5
9	45.0	39.5	37.5
PW	50.5	44.5	42.5
UW	n/a	49.5	47.5
SW	57.5	54.0	52.5
LW	61.0	58.0	58.0

 

[GolfSpy MPR]

First, that was a really fun read. Great post!

On the wedges: my first question is, what do you use your wedges for? In my case, I could call my PW and GW my 10 and 11 iron. I almost never use them for anything other than full swings. For that reason, I use the PW and GW (or UW) that are part of my G700 set.

My SW and LW are the clubs that I demand versatility from, for hitting a variety of short game shots, so that's where I'm my bag I switch to speciality wedges.

So for my part, that's the question I'd present to you too guide your choice.

[fixyurdivot]

29 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

First, that was a really fun read. Great post!

On the wedges: my first question is, what do you use your wedges for? In my case, I could call my PW and GW my 10 and 11 iron. I almost never use them for anything other than full swings. For that reason, I use the PW and GW (or UW) that are part of my G700 set.

My SW and LW are the clubs that I demand versatility from, for hitting a variety of short game shots, so that's where I'm my bag I switch to speciality wedges.

So for my part, that's the question I'd present to you too guide your choice.

Thanks.  It's been an interesting journey and fun sharing with the forum.  Regarding my wedges (or more like lack thereof), I typically use my PW at near full swing at ~80 yards and throttle as needed into about 40 yards.  From there in, unless I need to flight a trap, tree, shrubs, etc., I play a bump and run with my 8i.  As you know we've had plenty of threads and discussion around wedges - many bagging 3 or more.  It seems our lower handicappers tend to use multiple wedges.  Not sure I need/want all 4 options available, but think 2, maybe 3 would give me a solid combination to perhaps compliment (or replace) the bump and run.  Here's where I'm hoping some of our "Wedge Play SME's" can help.

[Sluggo42]

If it were me, I’d include the pw and the Aw. Then I’d get a sub70 sand and lob wedge, say a 54° and a 58°, with matching shafts (or whatever you feel is needed) and grips And then I’d spend more time learning how the 58° can be used instead of using a bump and run 8 iron.

but!

thats just how I would do it. I would rather take all the “bad bounce” variables out of the picture, and just pitch a 58° up tight.

[Kenny B]

Nice read!  If you used your PE2 PW a lot, you will need the UW for similar shots.  I'm assuming that you are getting the G410's in graphite.  However, if you add specialty SW and/or LW, I recommend getting steel shafts.  You want some weight in those clubs, and the standard Ping graphite shafts are fairly light.  My preference is both SW and LW, but that's just me.  If you really only want a SW to replace your Dad's old SW, then I would opt for a 56º/58º, and spend some time considering which bounce to get that would allow the best shots out of your typical sand, as well as other around the green shots.  I use a 58º for most shots around the green, even in bunkers when they have minimal sand.  My SW is almost exclusively for bunker play when sand is aplenty.

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, Kenny B said:

I'm assuming that you are getting the G410's in graphite

No. We tested the graphite (PING CB), but actually ended up back with steel - changing from the PX 5.5 LZ to the AWT 2.0 in the +1 length.  These matched well with the PE2 swing weight which is D2.

[THEZIPR23]

I agree with sluggo and Kenny. PW and UW. And  add a specialty SW, you can even add LW at a later date. I play 4 wedges for gaping purposes but only the PW matches my set. I have found over the years that having AW, SW & LW with separate bounces and or grinds than my irons allows me to play a variety of shots with each. 

[Nunfa0]

Love the post, it's a great description of your very patient search for new irons. Have you considered the Ping Glide wedges? 

[fixyurdivot]

2 hours ago, Nunfa0 said:

Love the post, it's a great description of your very patient search for new irons. Have you considered the Ping Glide wedges? 

It sounds like I need to - they get lots of great kudo's.  In fact, I posed this same question to my fitter and he suggested adding one or more of these in lieu of the G410 wedges.  Not having been a wedge centric player all these years, this is new territory for me.

[PING Apologist #9]

My move from the "standard" wedges that came with my irons to the Glides was one of my better golf decisions. I've kept the PW for gapping but carry 3 Glides at all times. Though I will use my 50* & 54* for mostly full swing approach shots, they do indeed offer some versatility for other shots too and allow me to be creative when the need arises. The 58* or the 60* (depending on what mood I'm in to carry) is still one of the more used clubs in my bag. I love all of those wedges and once you learn to "trust" the bounce they really do (IMHO) out-perform the standard wide-sole wedge offerings of a standard set of PING irons. Try some different ones if you can. There are a lot of great wedges out there and I'm sure you'll find some you like that'll be better than what comes "standard".

[fixyurdivot]

I just read this from Chris Nickels review on these irons.  Suggests they are basically the "Glide 2.0" wedges?

https://mygolfspy.com/2019-ping-g410-irons/

Progressing through the set, PING uses the same wedge technology and geometry on the G410 PW, UW, SW and LW as it does in the Glide 2.0 wedges, which were named MyGolfSpy’s Most Wanted wedge of 2018.

[Nunfa0]

Sounds like they would be perfect for you . Now you just have to decide what lofts to get....

Edited May 20, 2019 by Nunfa0

[GregB135]

Lots of good suggestions. Answering the wedges vs. woods/hybrids question to get t o 14 clubs is always a matter of play style and gapping requirements. If you have a big yardage gap between your lowest fairway wood and your first iron, and need that yardage than opt for another fairway wood or a 3 hybrid. If you need more yardage and versatility options for near and around the green then an extra wedge is probably the way to go.

Once you decide, definitely keep the lofts consistent with your iron set. 2-3 degrees difference for a hybrid, and 4-5 degrees for the wedges. I use 3 wedges with 4 degrees between each. That gives me a 10 yard gap between each starting at 110 yards, plus an accurate yardage for 3/4 and 1/2 swings with each so I wind up with 9 accurate yardages to use for 110 and in. Once I'm inside the 1/2 swing 58 it becomes a matter of pitch and chip options depending on shot required so I like having the versatility of the 3 lofts.

[M. Parsons]

On 5/18/2019 at 5:58 PM, fixyurdivot said:

No. We tested the graphite (PING CB), but actually ended up back with steel - changing from the PX 5.5 LZ to the AWT 2.0 in the +1 length.  These matched well with the PE2 swing weight which is D2.

Not sure if it was mentioned by someone else or not, but the Glide 2.0 is a very nice option for you Sand and Lob, and the ES sole grind is meant to replicate the Eye-2 sole. Also, and I shouldn't be telling everyone this, since they are the wedges I'm looking to purchase, but they are on sale right now for $109 on Global Golf.

[fixyurdivot]

My fitter is suggesting 4-PW, add the G410 UW, and a Glide 2.0 56 deg.  This provides the following lofts:

PW 44.5

UW 49.5

2.0 56.0

Thoughts?  Maybe go with a 2.0 in the 50 degree in lieu of the UW?  Going from 30+ years playing just a PW to having 3 in the bag - this will be fun .

[THEZIPR23]

I would say based on the brief  history you provided that going with the UW would be a good choice. More than likely you will be using it mainly for full shots only and if that is the case matching your set is a good option. 

You will love have 3 wedges to chose from vs. 1. 

[wipierce]

I gamed my late 90's Ping i3 Blades until very recently. Just last month I received my Ping i210's and man what a difference.

I've only played a round and a half but I continue to have great experiences. Ex. I hit a 6 iron on a 198 yard par 3; didn't have a great swing or strike, saying so out loud as soon as I made contact. I still ended up on the green with 35 feet for birdie. You'll love the new set.

I got the PW and UW with my set. Then the Glide 2.0 54* SW. I go up in the air chipping, but with the ability the new wedge groves provide a wide range of shots are available.

Sent using the MyGolfSpy mobile app

[fixyurdivot]

OK, I've decided on the 4-UW and the Glide 2.0 56/SS grind.  One thing we tried during the fitting is moving from a +1/2 inch shaft length to a +1 inch length.  We tried this to see if it the added length helped move the strike zone more from toe (my tendency) towards center - and it did help a bit.  The added length felt OK swinging but I'm reading that adding length can be problematic. 

My static PING fitting, height and wrist to floor measurement, puts me solidly in the +1/2 length.  This is the shaft length I've had on my PE2's and been playing for 30 years.  Here is the data comparing the AWT 2.0 and PX shafts.  The top group being the +1 inch and the other AWT and PX in +1/2 inch.  Also shown at the bottom is the baseline data from my PE2 7i from the fitting last year.

My fitter is saying the +1 inch yields the best performance, but I think we're both a little on the fence not just staying with +1/2.  What are your thoughts looking at the numbers? 

[GB13]

I'd trust the fitter. 

[fixyurdivot]

14 hours ago, GB13 said:

I'd trust the fitter. 

I will.  We're going to discuss again this morning before making the order.  Just thought I'd checked with the forum this final decision point - particularly since he seemed a little uncertain about it.  I can always choke down a wee bit.  I see pros doing this quite often.  

[PING Apologist #9]

17 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

OK, I've decided on the 4-UW and the Glide 2.0 56/SS grind.  One thing we tried during the fitting is moving from a +1/2 inch shaft length to a +1 inch length.  We tried this to see if it the added length helped move the strike zone more from toe (my tendency) towards center - and it did help a bit.  The added length felt OK swinging but I'm reading that adding length can be problematic. 

My static PING fitting, height and wrist to floor measurement, puts me solidly in the +1/2 length.  This is the shaft length I've had on my PE2's and been playing for 30 years.  Here is the data comparing the AWT 2.0 and PX shafts.  The top group being the +1 inch and the other AWT and PX in +1/2 inch.  Also shown at the bottom is the baseline data from my PE2 7i from the fitting last year.

My fitter is saying the +1 inch yields the best performance, but I think we're both a little on the fence not just staying with +1/2.  What are your thoughts looking at the numbers? 

If it were me, I'd lean on going with the +1 inch as suggested. You can always cut down back to +1/2" later that way. If you started at the +1/2" you wouldn't have that option.

I'm very excited for you and I'm happy you have gotten so much good data with your fitter. Sounds like a great experience so far and my fingers are crossed that this whole decision-making process will lead to some good and fun golf in your near future. Looking forward to a new @fixyurdivot WITB thread very soon..!

[GB13]

2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I will.  We're going to discuss again this morning before making the order.  Just thought I'd checked with the forum this final decision point - particularly since he seemed a little uncertain about it.  I can always choke down a wee bit.  I see pros doing this quite often.  

Yeah, I mean, looking at the numbers you seem more consistent with the +1, especially on your ball speed, and smash factor, which is going to translate into more consistent distances. 

[fixyurdivot]

Today's the Big Day.  Heading over to Bozeman this morning to pick up the irons.  I plan to spend some time at the range on the way home to break them in and establish some distances with my SC200.  It's going to be weird pulling the PE2's out of the bag .  

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Today's the Big Day.  Heading over to Bozeman this morning to pick up the irons.  I plan to spend some time at the range on the way home to break them in and establish some distances with my SC200.  It's going to be weird pulling the PE2's out of the bag .  

I must have missed it - which irons? 

[fixyurdivot]

8 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I must have missed it - which irons? 

The G410's.  I headed right from the shop to the range and purchased two large buckets.  Really gorgeous day in Bozeman, MT (all over the region really). 

The range at Cottonwood Hills GC

I pulled the PE2's from the bag and started adding the 410's.  I could swear I heard them say "it's been a great run for over 30 years partner - we'll be right here should you ever need us". I decided from the start of this journey that the PE2's would stay in my possession until the end of my golf career.  They truly have been a great set of irons and provided some memorable shots.

The new line-up.

My objective today was to establish some new yardages.  I entered all the new lofts into my SC200 and started the practice with the 7i.  My first hit was off the toe so damn far it hit the metal fence guard.  I laughed so hard at myself I nearly was in tears.

 

OK, step back, take a deep breath, and hit the frigging ball.  From there on I started making solid contact and found a nice rhythm.  I switched to the 4i and started taking data for each club in order - hitting 12-15 balls on each club.  These were my numbers. 

Club    Carry Avg.    Carry Max.     

4i            178                 192

5i            163                 171

6i            156                 163

7i            147                 159

8i            129                 142

9i            112                 124

W            100                 113

UW          84                   89

SW          65                   72

I'm not convinced the distances on the UW and the SW (Glide 2.0 56 deg) are real accurate.  It seemed the SC 200 was missing several shots on each and I had to switch it off/on to get it reading again.  Perhaps it's the really high ball height - dunno?  I plan to do another range marathon and repeat this exercise to see how consistent the numbers are and double check the high lofted irons.

That said, I'm pretty happy with the data and definitely gaining an iron length or more over the PE2's.  I also found that mishits were less frequent and more forgiving.  Besides that not so memorable "first hit", I only had a handful of stinkers and the vast majority were really straight or even had a slight draw on the 4i and 5i.  I think the yardage gaps look pretty good but now feel I'm going to need something between my G400 3w and the 4i.  I wish PING offered a 3i for this set, but I may be better off getting a 5w, crossover, or hybrid?  (Suggestions welcomed) .

Here's some additional pictures.  I opted for the PING logo grips as they appear to be really similar as the Golf Pride Tour Velvet... plus they say .  

The AWT 2.0 shafts are a +1 inch and regular flex.  They are 1/2" longer than the ZZ-Lite shafts on my PE2's and felt good.  I really am not noticing a difference in swing feel and my strike patterns were mostly just toe side of center.  Hit #1 with the 8i was flushed.

I ended up buying two more large baskets to complete the data; and get some time with the G410 driver and G400 3w.  A quick clean-up after the practice and the finish looks barely used.  I really like the satin Hydro-Pearl finish and contrasting milled face.  The G410's still have the stamped iron number on the face - which many don't like, but I do. 

I think these are going to work out well once I get as comfortable with yardage numbers as I am with the PE2's.  I'll also be interested to see what difference there is (if any) in how they roll out and hold greens.  So far so good.

[Kenny B]

Very nice!!  Good numbers too.  That's a lot of balls; after one large bucket, I can't hit anything further than my 8i.

[tony@CIC]

9 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

The G410's.  I headed right from the shop to the range and purchased two large buckets.  Really gorgeous day in Bozeman, MT (all over the region really). 

The range at Cottonwood Hills GC

I pulled the PE2's from the bag and started adding the 410's.  I could swear I heard them say "it's been a great run for over 30 years partner - we'll be right here should you ever need us". I decided from the start of this journey that the PE2's would stay in my possession until the end of my golf career.  They truly have been a great set of irons and provided some memorable shots.

The new line-up.

My objective today was to establish some new yardages.  I entered all the new lofts into my SC200 and started the practice with the 7i.  My first hit was off the toe so damn far it hit the metal fence guard.  I laughed so hard at myself I nearly was in tears.

 

OK, step back, take a deep breath, and hit the frigging ball.  From there on I started making solid contact and found a nice rhythm.  I switched to the 4i and started taking data for each club in order - hitting 12-15 balls on each club.  These were my numbers. 

Club    Carry Avg.    Carry Max.     

4i            178                 192

5i            163                 171

6i            156                 163

7i            147                 159

8i            129                 142

9i            112                 124

W            100                 113

UW          84                   89

SW          65                   72

I'm not convinced the distances on the UW and the SW (Glide 2.0 56 deg) are real accurate.  It seemed the SC 200 was missing several shots on each and I had to switch it off/on to get it reading again.  Perhaps it's the really high ball height - dunno?  I plan to do another range marathon and repeat this exercise to see how consistent the numbers are and double check the high lofted irons.

That said, I'm pretty happy with the data and definitely gaining an iron length or more over the PE2's.  I also found that mishits were less frequent and more forgiving.  Besides that not so memorable "first hit", I only had a handful of stinkers and the vast majority were really straight or even had a slight draw on the 4i and 5i.  I think the yardage gaps look pretty good but now feel I'm going to need something between my G400 3w and the 4i.  I wish PING offered a 3i for this set, but I may be better off getting a 5w, crossover, or hybrid?  (Suggestions welcomed) .

Here's some additional pictures.  I opted for the PING logo grips as they appear to be really similar as the Golf Pride Tour Velvet... plus they say .  

The AWT 2.0 shafts are a +1 inch and regular flex.  They are 1/2" longer than the ZZ-Lite shafts on my PE2's and felt good.  I really am not noticing a difference in swing feel and my strike patterns were mostly just toe side of center.  Hit #1 with the 8i was flushed.

I ended up buying two more large baskets to complete the data; and get some time with the G410 driver and G400 3w.  A quick clean-up after the practice and the finish looks barely used.  I really like the satin Hydro-Pearl finish and contrasting milled face.  The G410's still have the stamped iron number on the face - which many don't like, but I do. 

I think these are going to work out well once I get as comfortable with yardage numbers as I am with the PE2's.  I'll also be interested to see what difference there is (if any) in how they roll out and hold greens.  So far so good.

Those are great numbers. With all of those Pings in the bag you may have to change your screen name 

[fixyurdivot]

9 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Very nice!!  Good numbers too.  That's a lot of balls; after one large bucket, I can't hit anything further than my 8i.

Yeah, I thought about the "I'm going to pay for this" aspect late into bucket #3, but I had taken an Advil before leaving home and I'm happy to report I feel like I could head to the range right now.  As it stands now, I'll be selecting up one iron from my normal, but on a few of them that may be too much at full throttle.  

 

24 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Those are great numbers. With all of those Pings in the bag you may have to change your screen name 

Nah, my new good buddy spy @PING Apologist #9 has that covered. 

[PING Apologist #9]

For your top-end gap question (5w, x-over or hybrid), only some testing will tell of course. I'm partial to woods myself and suggest that if you are comfortable with your 3w, that a 5w may be a good and easy transition. You and I seem to have very similar yardages looking at your data so far (nice write-up btw...). So as an example only, my G400 5w is my 185-200 club and I can count on that distance with it nearly every time.

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

Yeah, I thought about the "I'm going to pay for this" aspect late into bucket #3, but I had taken an Advil before leaving home and I'm happy to report I feel like I could head to the range right now.  As it stands now, I'll be selecting up one iron from my normal, but on a few of them that may be too much at full throttle.  

 

Nah, my new good buddy spy @PING Apologist #9 has that covered. 

#10 is still available