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Richie3Jack

Why Some Forged Feels Better Than Other Forged?

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I'm a bit curious to this. Particularly when the steel gets between 1020 and 1025.

 

I have a bunch of forged irons (12 sets). And I was at the PGA Merch Show's Demo day. I also play blades exclusively.

 

I have a set of 1967 Hogan Percussions, and they feel awesome. In fact, I'll probably get them re-built thru the iron factory. I've also got some Hogan Bounce Sole 1+'s....again, feel great. I believe these are 1020 carbon steel.

 

I have a set of Mizuno TN-87's. I asked Tom Wishon about these clubs becasue they are known for their superior feel. The claim is that they feel superior becasue they used a 'copper underlayment' under the chrome. Wishon said that they did, but back then pretty much all irons did the same thing and that copper has nothing do with making that club feel softer. Yet, it does feel great and they are my current gamers.

 

Then I've got some Srixon Pro 100's, 1025 steel....feel great. But I've got a set of Titleist 690 MB's (1025) and they feel decent, but noticeably not as good as the Srixon's, the Hogan's I've mentioned and the Mizuno TN-87.

 

Then I have some Bridgestone J33's which have 1020 carbon steel and they don't feel nearly as good.

 

So I'm looking for people's thoughts on why some feel better than others even though the steel is the same. Also, most of these irons have True Temper shafts, other than the TN-87's which are Project X. And any technical forging info, like times struck, with regards to these clubs would be helpful so that we can compare what works and what doesn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

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When you have similar manufacturing variables such as all irons being forged from billet and the material all being carbon steel (1020, 1025, 1030) the design plays an important part on perception of feel.

 

All models listed could be manufactured of the same exact material and you would still have a differing feel between the models. This is due to CG location and placement of mass. Granted that all of the irons are blade models but the distribution of mass in each of the heads is slightly different.

 

Blade thickness can account for solidness of feel but so can the location of the CG. If the golfer is accustomed to hitting the center of the face and the CG is more heel-ward there could be a less solid feel at impact. Likewise, if the golf has a very refined swing and typically impacts the face X" tangent to the shaft axis, each iron design will have a different feel based on the CG location's relationship to the shaft axis (this would be very common with differences in blade lengths of models). So the perception of one type of carbon steel over another shouldn't be the only comparison to take into account when wondering why one club feels more solid than another.

 

Hope this helps.

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Some very good and educational info right there ... thanks! :lol:

 

When you have similar manufacturing variables such as all irons being forged from billet and the material all being carbon steel (1020, 1025, 1030) the design plays an important part on perception of feel.

 

All models listed could be manufactured of the same exact material and you would still have a differing feel between the models. This is due to CG location and placement of mass. Granted that all of the irons are blade models but the distribution of mass in each of the heads is slightly different.

 

Blade thickness can account for solidness of feel but so can the location of the CG. If the golfer is accustomed to hitting the center of the face and the CG is more heel-ward there could be a less solid feel at impact. Likewise, if the golf has a very refined swing and typically impacts the face X" tangent to the shaft axis, each iron design will have a different feel based on the CG location's relationship to the shaft axis (this would be very common with differences in blade lengths of models). So the perception of one type of carbon steel over another shouldn't be the only comparison to take into account when wondering why one club feels more solid than another.

 

Hope this helps.

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I wonder if the actual manufacturing process has a noticeable effect? For instance if one forgery heats their metal up a little hotter than another.

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dont discount that the following all have effects on feel -

  • amount and type of epoxy
  • ferrule
  • presence of a pin
  • presence of a dowel in the tip of the shaft
  • type of shaft
  • amount of tape
  • type of grip

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J33s I've found didn't really feel that great, but I put it down to the fact that they had a such a long hosel on them, thats a lot more weight above the ball compared to others.

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Build quality, manufacturing tolerances, and attention to detail also play a factor. The more recent you go, the higher the volume of clubs built annually and the lower the quality of the builds. It's like the car industry, the older cars were just more well built and more attention was given to the finite details.

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Is there a way or a tool that can measure the location of the CoG on the club?

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

 

There probably is somewhere. That said, Roger Maltby does that with all of the irons on the market every year. Sorry that doesn't help with your old blades though.

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There probably is somewhere. That said, Roger Maltby does that with all of the irons on the market every year. ....

 

WHOA - WAITAMINUTE: So, where can we find the data Maltby gathers? Is that something that MGS could link to? What would it tell us about clubs? This could be significant! at least gnarly!

 

Linwood

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I will agree with what Mygolf Spy and Moe Cat said on here. For some reason I also prefer the older forged blades. What I do is update them on shafts and check the lofts and lies on them. I currently own only 5 sets of forged irons now. I usually can find them at an yard sale or at the flea market cheap around $25 or so. I will take them and evaluate them for me and make according changes. Most of the time I use TT S-300s I prefer that shaft. I do have a set of 65 Macgregor black face Tourney Customs that i put rifle 6.0 s in. I am not a metaluroligst but I think it has to do with the metal forging process. Of the modern forgings past 1990 I like the Mizuno MP-33s the best but they wear out too fast for me especially down here at the beach.I am also like you I am a feel player. I have found out for me that old rebuilt forged irons work and they are less expensive since I do my own work including lofts and lie settings. Since you are an old forged blade fan like me I will give you my list on what I have left

70 Mac VIPs S-300 shafts This is my primary gamer set

65 Mac Black Face Tourney Custom

70-72 Mac Tour Blades

80 Power Bilt Scotch blades These were found pristine and have the factory shafts but new grips

78 Wilson Staff FG-17 blades reshafted S300u

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I don't give a great deal of importance to club head material except as it affects the life span of the club. I think the appearance has more importance as it makes you want to be using that club and that has to be a good thing. Next would be the suitability of the shaft to you personally as that impacts your personal satisfaction in using that club. Fine tuning comes in the bounce and center of gravity. They affect the ball flight and the effort you need to put into controlling that ball flight.

 

Age has little to do with it unless that age suits you and impacts upon your self image and the joy you experience in using it. If you enjoy some clubs more than others, you are one in a crowd. We all have personal preferences and it's only in those personal preferences that we truly vary. When we are happy, we really hit the ball farther even with our defective techiniques and are more accurate too. In short, be happy and have a good time. :lol:

 

 

Shambles

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Thanks guys.

 

I own a bunch of 'vintage' irons:

 

1963 Hogan IPT

1967 Hogan Percussion (2.5" hosel)

1970 Hogan Bounce Sole 1+

1978 MacGregor Tourney Custom 985

1981 Powerbilt H&B Grand Slam

1983 Hogan Apex PC

1987 Mizuno TN-87

 

I also own some Titleist 690 MB's, Srixon Pro 100's, Bridgestone J33 and Mizuno MP-62 irons.

 

The best feeling irons to me are the '67 Hogan Percussions, Mizuno TN-87's, Srixon Pro 100's and the Mizuno MP-62's. The Bounce Sole 1+, Apex PC's, and Powerbilt H&B Grand Slams have nice feels to them as well, but the top sets I mentioned have extraordinary feel to them.

 

I think it's personal preference (obviously), but I think I prefer the CoG lower on the clubface and with a moderate top line (by muscleback blade standards).

 

But, I think it would be nice to figure out what clubs have certain designs...so that if somebody says that they loved the feel of a set of irons and I look at them and find that they have a low CoG and a moderate top line, then I should be interested in them. But if somebody says they like the feel of a set of irons and those irons have a very thin topline and a higher CoG, then I probably won't be as interested.

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

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Thanks guys.

 

I own a bunch of 'vintage' irons:

 

1963 Hogan IPT

1967 Hogan Percussion (2.5" hosel)

1970 Hogan Bounce Sole 1+

1978 MacGregor Tourney Custom 985

1981 Powerbilt H&B Grand Slam

1983 Hogan Apex PC

1987 Mizuno TN-87

 

I also own some Titleist 690 MB's, Srixon Pro 100's, Bridgestone J33 and Mizuno MP-62 irons.

 

The best feeling irons to me are the '67 Hogan Percussions, Mizuno TN-87's, Srixon Pro 100's and the Mizuno MP-62's. The Bounce Sole 1+, Apex PC's, and Powerbilt H&B Grand Slams have nice feels to them as well, but the top sets I mentioned have extraordinary feel to them.

 

I think it's personal preference (obviously), but I think I prefer the CoG lower on the clubface and with a moderate top line (by muscleback blade standards).

 

But, I think it would be nice to figure out what clubs have certain designs...so that if somebody says that they loved the feel of a set of irons and I look at them and find that they have a low CoG and a moderate top line, then I should be interested in them. But if somebody says they like the feel of a set of irons and those irons have a very thin topline and a higher CoG, then I probably won't be as interested.

Jack if you ever want to get rid of the Macs please let me know to me those are sweet hitting clubs especially if you update the shafts. I am glad to see someone besides me loves the older clubs. I noticed you semingly prefer Hogan. I do carry Hogan wedges all of them 80s circa

 

 

 

 

3JACK

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3 Jack my last post did not come out right I musta done something wrong. Anyhow It is good to see someone like me that loves and plays the older blades. If you ever want to get rid of the Macs let me know. those 985s are sweet hitting especially when you put newer shafts in them. I see you are predominatly a Hogan fan. I do play Hogan wedges. I carry circa 80s W grind 56* and a 80s circa Special SW 60*I also alternate between my Mac VIP PW and an 80s model Hogan Equalizer both set at 47*

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Thanks, Stu.

 

There are a few iron sets that I may be willing to part with. I plan over the next few years to 'Pimp My Irons', probably 2 sets a year. I work on my swing quite a bit and it's pretty close to being where I want it. Once I get it where I want it, I will fit myself for shafts and then send a set of irons to the Iron Factory to get rechromed, re-shafted and re-gripped.

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

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