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I was doing some research on shafts and ran across this most excellent article by Tom Wishon.  My apologies if it's a repeat from a prior thread, but I found it so well written and informative, figured it worth any time in the penalty box.

http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/

I found this statement particularly interesting and perhaps the single most reason club fitting is essential - one companies R-flex is another's S-flex and vice-versa.

It is VERY IMPORTANT to understand that such variations are by intent and DO NOT represent a mistake or lack of quality in any manner by these companies. Remember, each company is free to determine their own standards for the actual stiffness for what each flex of each shaft is to be. It is not wrong – it just is the way it is.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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Not only are flexes based on what the OEM chooses they way they measure different aspects isn’t standard across the board.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I think the golf industry and fly rod industry share lots of DNA 🙂

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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I re-read the Wishon article yesterday. Tom's a smart guy and had put in a lot of research and efforts in providing the information. I basically agree with everything he has to say regarding shafts. IMO anyway. Just like Tom said in his article... how many countless times have we all read here in the forum someone recommending a shaft or some guy asking "us" what shaft he should use. LOL It's all BS what we think regarding advising someone to use such and such shaft. One man's fruit is another man's poison.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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"there are absolutely no standards in the golf industry for how stiff any of the shaft flex codes are. Every golf company and shaft company is free to determine how stiff their various shaft flex letter codes are to be. As a result it is very common for the R Flex from one company to be similar in stiffness to the S Flex from another company or the A Flex from a third company."

 

... Many year ago, shafts had a frequency range and every OEM labeled their shafts within that frequency range. Obviously a tip stiff or tip soft shaft felt and played differently for players with a late release but you could be assured a stiff was a stiff. In a brilliant move for his company as well as ego driven golfers, Eli Callaway came up with the genius idea of labeling a regular shaft with a stiff label as well as making a 9* driver head actually 12*. All of a sudden average golfers were hitting their stiff shafted 9* driver higher and farther, unaware that they were hitting a regular flex 12* driver. He did the same thing with is Warbird fairway woods. He sold a TON of clubs. But the industry changed forever and standards are out the window. 

... And 
Plaid, I would argue you can have a starting point with shafts that others play and recommend IF you know what kind of shaft works for you or have played a similar shaft. For instance if you played an Aldila Tour Blue/Rogue Black and liked the feel and performance, there is a very good chance you will love the Atmos Blue TS that is very similar in specs and feel and may provide more ball speed for any given swing. But it is just a starting point. I have played and demoed soooooo many shafts and I know what kind of shaft works for me and am rarely off in knowing before hitting a shaft that it is going to be good or bad for my swing. Now that said, I recently made a huge mistake when buying and shafting some irons with Modus 105's. Everything about them fit what works for me in my irons yet they were the exact opposite of the reviews I read along with their specs for my swing. Many compared the Nippon 950GH as almost identical with a slightly higher ball flight and slightly lower weight. For me, they did not feel anything alike as the Modus felt much stouter/heavier/stiffer tipped and produced a higher ball flight. I am pretty sure the higher ball flight was a reaction to the shaft feeling like it wasn't unloading thru impact and I subconsciously started swinging harder, releasing earlier and hitting them very high. I think this is a great example of "starting point" and as always getting ft or at least demoing the shaft in a head you would play it in is essential. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/29/2019 at 9:17 AM, chisag said:

... Many year ago, shafts had a frequency range and every OEM labeled their shafts within that frequency range. Obviously a tip stiff or tip soft shaft felt and played differently for players with a late release but you could be assured a stiff was a stiff. In a brilliant move for his company as well as ego driven golfers, Eli Callaway came up with the genius idea of labeling a regular shaft with a stiff label as well as making a 9* driver head actually 12*. All of a sudden average golfers were hitting their stiff shafted 9* driver higher and farther, unaware that they were hitting a regular flex 12* driver. He did the same thing with is Warbird fairway woods. He sold a TON of clubs. But the industry changed forever and standards are out the window. 

That is f'n hilarious! 😆

...and brilliant marketing. RIP, Eli Callaway, but I'll never forgive you for "stealing" Ben Hogan's Apex branding. Now that was genius from the great man himself. #TheHoganMystique 

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

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  • 2 months later...
On 6/6/2019 at 10:01 AM, J.B. TexasEx said:

That is f'n hilarious! 😆

...and brilliant marketing. RIP, Eli Callaway, but I'll never forgive you for "stealing" Ben Hogan's Apex branding. Now that was genius from the great man himself. #TheHoganMystique 

Callaway didn’t “steal” the Hogan brand so much as got “stuck” with it when buying Spaulding’s golf business when they were in bankruptcy. The reality is they bought it for the ball IP and infrastructure (TaylorMade was outbid and had to settle for Maxfli as a consolation). While Hogan did have a minor resurgence in popularity with their Spaulding led late 90’s releases, the brand had already been suffering a slow death for years before Callaway came along. 

:titelist-small:  TS2 9.5

:titelist-small:  909F2 15.5

:titelist-small:  690.CB 3-PW

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5 50, 56

image.png.e50b7e7a9b18feff4720d7b223a2013d.png   Works Versa 1W

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/4/2019 at 7:26 AM, storm319 said:

Callaway didn’t “steal” the Hogan brand so much as got “stuck” with it when buying Spaulding’s golf business when they were in bankruptcy. The reality is they bought it for the ball IP and infrastructure (TaylorMade was outbid and had to settle for Maxfli as a consolation). While Hogan did have a minor resurgence in popularity with their Spaulding led late 90’s releases, the brand had already been suffering a slow death for years before Callaway came along. 

No argument - the BH brand was dying. But, Callaway sure has embraced the Apex branding after being "stuck" with it.

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

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