2019 Official Forum Member Review-Odyssey Stroke Lab Putter

[MaxEntropy]

1 hour ago, bens197 said:

Do you trust the selection you made within the Stroke Lab offerings?

Is this technology legit and here to stay?

I trust my selection - the fitter had me narrowed down to two head shapes, and this one appealed to me the most.

I am finding it difficult to separate the insert from the shaft, but in combination, the two technologies are proving beneficial for me in short range and long range (lag putting). Like @juspoole , the mid range has not inspired too much confidence. My make percentage from 6-18 feet is nearly 20% lower with the Stroke Lab, but there may be other variables in play too - the greens were slow and shaggy early in the season when it was all the Ping so I could pretty much pound the ball straight at the hole. Now the greens have picked up a lot of speed, so I have more to consider. I plan on playing my Ping in league next week to see what happens. I do really like the feel. I believe the Stroke Lab has a heavier head for stability and the counter balance makes it feel similar to my Ping. In a long-winded way, I am saying I believe the tech is legit and here to stay.

 

[Berg Ryman]

5 hours ago, bens197 said:

Now that you guys have some rounds under your belt I have 2 questions.

Do you trust the selection you made within the Stroke Lab offerings?

Is this technology legit and here to stay?


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

So Steve, surprised you didn't tag me in this with big bright letters since this one is seemingly tailor made for me go in on.

First, head shape trust. Look, if you've been reading you know I've been fighting my blade, but it's my own stubborn fault as to why I ended up with it. I went into this SAM lab fitting basically saying that whatever I was fit into as going to be my choice, and it appears putting blind faith into the fitting was a mistake on my front. I would have personally probably picked an R-Ball or a V-Line without any fitting, but I got fit into the One. Why that was remains a slight mystery to me, why did it perform so well in a closed environment but putting it out into the world it has struggled. Is it a time thing? Is it a stroke thing? I honestly wish I had an answer. 

If I could do it all over again I'd use that fitting more as a suggestion than an absolute. That's not to say the fitting wasn't influential and should be avoided, but as someone who knows my game and putting style I should have inserted more of my personal thoughts and ideas than blind faith to the fitter. It was something I was able to do more with my driver fitting, inserting my opinion that is, than this putter fitting, where I was strictly going by the numbers, and maybe going to the two different places, a Local fitter (Driver) v. Club Champion led to the difference here.  

Now, second question. I do find a benefit to the Stroke Lab shaft and I think it's here to stay, but I don't think it's a takeover of the business going forward. Much like counter balancing or armlock, I think Stroke Lab/Stability is a technology that will be available in putters going forward, but not a total shift in the industry making it standard. It'll be just another option going forward that some people will see a real benefit from and others won't see much at all. I'm of the same mind as @juspoole, if they were less expensive I'd see potentially throwing a Stability shaft in my Pipe if that's the way this shakes out by the end.

Now, @MaxEntropy talked about pairing the shaft with the insert and while I do think they can be parsed out I have to say the insert for me is just ok. As I said earlier in the thread, this insert claims to be microhinged, but it isn't in the way the O-Works line was. This looks on it's face more like Odyssey put some grooves in the insert and put the hinges on that line to claim the same benefit. I'll get a picture of the ace in profile to show what I mean, but it's a different way to solve the roll problem under what I think is a confusing name. Does it help roll? I think it does get it moving quicker. I don't find it overly soft, but I guess my insert in my Pipe would measure on the overly firm side of the sliding scale of inserts. At the end of the day I'd say it's a slightly above average odyssey insert of the putters I've rolled from them. To give you an idea I'd have, in order, the DFX, The original Works insert, Versa insert, White Hot Steel and White Hot Pro above it, and Original White Hot, O-Works, White Hot RX, White Hot XG, and Metal-X below it. It's a perfectly acceptable insert in my opinion.

 

EDIT: Also, at this rate, my stage 2 is going to be as long as a PhD dissertation if this is how I answer two short questions

[bens197]

I trust my selection - the fitter had me narrowed down to two head shapes, and this one appealed to me the most.
I am finding it difficult to separate the insert from the shaft, but in combination, the two technologies are proving beneficial for me in short range and long range (lag putting). Like [mention=70694]juspoole[/mention] , the mid range has not inspired too much confidence. My make percentage from 6-18 feet is nearly 20% lower with the Stroke Lab, but there may be other variables in play too - the greens were slow and shaggy early in the season when it was all the Ping so I could pretty much pound the ball straight at the hole. Now the greens have picked up a lot of speed, so I have more to consider. I plan on playing my Ping in league next week to see what happens. I do really like the feel. I believe the Stroke Lab has a heavier head for stability and the counter balance makes it feel similar to my Ping. In a long-winded way, I am saying I believe the tech is legit and here to stay.
 

20% lower is big gains. I’m glad to hear it’s working so well

[bens197]

So Steve, surprised you didn't tag me in this with big bright letters since this one is seemingly tailor made for me go in on.
First, head shape trust. Look, if you've been reading you know I've been fighting my blade, but it's my own stubborn fault as to why I ended up with it. I went into this SAM lab fitting basically saying that whatever I was fit into as going to be my choice, and it appears putting blind faith into the fitting was a mistake on my front. I would have personally probably picked an R-Ball or a V-Line without any fitting, but I got fit into the One. Why that was remains a slight mystery to me, why did it perform so well in a closed environment but putting it out into the world it has struggled. Is it a time thing? Is it a stroke thing? I honestly wish I had an answer. 
If I could do it all over again I'd use that fitting more as a suggestion than an absolute. That's not to say the fitting wasn't influential and should be avoided, but as someone who knows my game and putting style I should have inserted more of my personal thoughts and ideas than blind faith to the fitter. It was something I was able to do more with my driver fitting, inserting my opinion that is, than this putter fitting, where I was strictly going by the numbers, and maybe going to the two different places, a Local fitter (Driver) v. Club Champion led to the difference here.  
Now, second question. I do find a benefit to the Stroke Lab shaft and I think it's here to stay, but I don't think it's a takeover of the business going forward. Much like counter balancing or armlock, I think Stroke Lab/Stability is a technology that will be available in putters going forward, but not a total shift in the industry making it standard. It'll be just another option going forward that some people will see a real benefit from and others won't see much at all. I'm of the same mind as [mention=70694]juspoole[/mention], if they were less expensive I'd see potentially throwing a Stability shaft in my Pipe if that's the way this shakes out by the end.
Now, [mention=72853]MaxEntropy[/mention] talked about pairing the shaft with the insert and while I do think they can be parsed out I have to say the insert for me is just ok. As I said earlier in the thread, this insert claims to be microhinged, but it isn't in the way the O-Works line was. This looks on it's face more like Odyssey put some grooves in the insert and put the hinges on that line to claim the same benefit. I'll get a picture of the ace in profile to show what I mean, but it's a different way to solve the roll problem under what I think is a confusing name. Does it help roll? I think it does get it moving quicker. I don't find it overly soft, but I guess my insert in my Pipe would measure on the overly firm side of the sliding scale of inserts. At the end of the day I'd say it's a slightly above average odyssey insert of the putters I've rolled from them. To give you an idea I'd have, in order, the DFX, The original Works insert, Versa insert, White Hot Steel and White Hot Pro above it, and Original White Hot, O-Works, White Hot RX, White Hot XG, and Metal-X below it. It's a perfectly acceptable insert in my opinion.
 
EDIT: Also, at this rate, my stage 2 is going to be as long as a PhD dissertation if this is how I answer two short questions

Ha! I knew it would find you and I didn’t want to be glaringly obvious.

But in all honestly the putter is the most personal choice of clubs in anyone’s bag. Even the slightest cosmetic change is enough to screw with someone’s head. Adding a face insert with shaft technology unseen in any other putter is a big deal.

And for what it’s worth, I thought the DFX was their best insert. Just enough feel to remind you where you struck it on the face.

[Berg Ryman]

Just now, bens197 said:

 

Ha! I knew it would find you and I didn’t want to be glaringly obvious.

But in all honestly the putter is the most personal choice of clubs in anyone’s bag. Even the slightest cosmetic change is enough to screw with someone’s head. Adding a face insert with shaft technology unseen in any other putter is a big deal.

And for what it’s worth, I thought the DFX was their best insert. Just enough feel to remind you where you struck it on the face.

 

DFX 2 Ball was my go to dick's putting green putter growing up, felt awesome.

[bens197]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my two questions.

After reading each of your posts several times I’m wondering if we’re far away from odyssey offering a fully customizable putter. What I mean is, head shape and color, face insert (white hot, microhinge or DFX) and shaft / grip.

It seems that the biggest contention is face firmness and response. Not just from this thread but from others I know who are gaming these.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Berg Ryman]

Just now, bens197 said:

Thanks for taking the time to answer my two questions.

After reading each of your posts several times I’m wondering if we’re far away from odyssey offering a fully customizable putter. What I mean is, head shape and color, face insert (white hot, microhinge or DFX) and shaft / grip.

It seems that the biggest contention is face firmness and response. Not just from this thread but from others I know who are gaming these.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Honestly, I'd say we aren't that far away. I think what they're doing with the Toulon Garage is maybe proof of concept for a potential Odyssey counterpart in the future. The question becomes what the market may be for such a service and how it could be differentiated from the Toulon customizing set-up. I'd assume a slow roll-out too if it was happening, like 4 or 5 models to start, the 1, the 7, the 9, the Rossie, and the 2 Ball as a jump off point.

[golfertrb]

I think I  made the right call in terms of shape.  What I wish is that the Toulon models would have been open, but still very thankful to have been chosen period.  Only reason I say that is for what I'm used to and feel that I like, I think the Toulon face would have given a firmer feel.
I think the shaft technology does help to some extent, my gripe is more about the face of the Odyssey being so soft and to me inconsistent at times.  I've thought about experimenting with a stroke lab/stability shaft in my scotty cameron.  That's where my mind has started to go.

That's ultimately where I landed too. I think there is something to the shaft but I don't care for soft inserts as it turns out. I prefer a milled face and the "thump" that provides. The truth is that I was torn between the Stroke Lab 9 and installing a Stability Shaft in my gamer. The reason I went Stroke Lab was that I wasn't messing with anything on my Tour Black. My putting is really solid - it's the biggest reason my handicap is what it is but if that can be better - who wouldn't? Thus the reason I tried something new; the biggest reason I went back to mine is that the insert was too soft. I couldn't tell where I hit the ball or how hard I needed to. My distance control became atrocious and my confidence plummeted. My first time out the gate with the Stroke Lab was incredible. My first few practice sessions I was hitting my line more than my gamer. Then it all went away - couldn't putt at all. Went back to my putter and I've had some ridiculous numbers starting from yesterday and working back; 27, 22, 27, 25, 25, 27, 28, 29, 24 - I've only had one round of putts over 30 (31) since I went back to my putter. I thought I would love the Stroke Lab - really wanted to - but it is sitting in my office. An expensive "experiment" and I'm still interested in having the shaft technology question answered for myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GolfSpy_APH]

I know it's slightly off topic, but the best feeling putter for me so far that I've tried are the new Ping Sigma 2's and I've become increasingly curious to see if I would be able to put the stroke lab shaft into one of those following this review. 

[bens197]

Honestly, I'd say we aren't that far away. I think what they're doing with the Toulon Garage is maybe proof of concept for a potential Odyssey counterpart in the future. The question becomes what the market may be for such a service and how it could be differentiated from the Toulon customizing set-up. I'd assume a slow roll-out too if it was happening, like 4 or 5 models to start, the 1, the 7, the 9, the Rossie, and the 2 Ball as a jump off point.

I think it’s feasible. The biggest talking point seems to be feel and pop off the face. Someone who doesn’t care for an insert would still see the benefit of this club and tech with a firmer face.

[Berg Ryman]

Just now, bens197 said:

 

I think it’s feasible. The biggest talking point seems to be feel and pop off the face. Someone who doesn’t care for an insert would still see the benefit of this club and tech with a firmer face.

 

I mean, the Toulon line is offering Stroke Lab tech, maybe that's where you find it.

[juspoole]

10 minutes ago, Apolloshowl said:

but the best feeling putter for me so far that I've tried are the new Ping Sigma 2's

I agree, I think the ping line is really good right now.  The vault 2.0's felt great to me and the Taylormade Juno Copper had a nice feel when I was on the store's putting area too.

 

22 minutes ago, golfertrb said:

The truth is that I was torn between the Stroke Lab 9 and installing a Stability Shaft in my gamer

I was in the exact same boat on this and still am to some extent.  Wondering if I should find a stability shaft as I think the tech is noteworthy after using the stroke lab.

 

23 minutes ago, golfertrb said:

Went back to my putter and I've had some ridiculous numbers starting from yesterday and working back; 27, 22, 27, 25, 25, 27, 28, 29, 24 - I've only had one round of putts over 30 (31) since I went back to my putter.

Holy Sh&t!  If I could have stats like that - avg what 26 putts?  Geez.  I fall into the opposite category and majority of my rounds I have 31 or more putts.  I tend to hit a good amount of greens (in relation to my handicap), Averaging 13 greens so far this year so that is part of it for me.  I tend to have a lot of birdie putts 20 or more feet away and two putting for par rather than chipping up and one putting for pars.

[GolfSpy_APH]

Okay so round 2 of the BC trip in 2 hours. Update to follow.

https://www.predatorridge.com/golf/ridge-course

Another beautiful course I've never played with what should be amazing greens and spectacular views. 

 

[golfertrb]

21 minutes ago, juspoole said:

Holy Sh&t!  If I could have stats like that - avg what 26 putts?  Geez.  I fall into the opposite category and majority of my rounds I have 31 or more putts.  I tend to hit a good amount of greens (in relation to my handicap), Averaging 13 greens so far this year so that is part of it for me.  I tend to have a lot of birdie putts 20 or more feet away and two putting for par rather than chipping up and one putting for pars.

My putting this year has been extremely good. I've never had 22 putts before, so that was exciting, as was two rounds of 25. My average the last few years has been around 28 putts (sometimes a few percentage point below or above). I'm hitting 13.73 greens this year but the putting is the real difference in score. I played with my two oldest boys last week and myself and Colton both hit 13 greens but he had 33 putts and I had 22. When I have a good round in terms of hitting greens, I score well. If I miss a lot of greens, I still tend to do ok because of the putter. I have a strong putting arc and I like to feel the club head release and that is one of the things I could not get right with the Stroke Lab. I'm not sure why - it could be the shaft or the softness of the insert - I don't know. I went back to my putter and I was able to do it again. Who knows?

[juspoole]

37 minutes ago, golfertrb said:

I have a strong putting arc and I like to feel the club head release and that is one of the things I could not get right with the Stroke Lab

I have something similar going on with mine - I have noticed I'm pushing many more putts than normal.  I have a slight in to down the line stroke with a slight arc on the through swing, but don't feel like I get it around as well as my current putter

[HDTVMAN]

I sell golf equipment, and have seen Odyssey inserts, which are apparently glued on, fall off the putters! Chinese made...what do you expect. Want a good putter, buy "Made In The USA"...

[Berg Ryman]

The golf gods have awarded me a potential round on Sunday after the cheese fest on Saturday. It'll be Stroke Lab only

[MaxEntropy]

I just got home from spending about 3 hours on the practice green. Although I now have a bunch more data for make %, proximity, three putt % for both putters from a variety of distances, a thought popped into my head as I was there: what should be the effect on have the putter built 1 degree upright? Here's what I'm getting at - if I needed a more upright putter, but have adapted to using a putter with the heel slightly lifted for the last 5 years, should I expect a difference if the new putter sits flat and (hopefully) stays flat through impact? Could this be part of the reason for the slightly underwhelming results in the 6-18 foot range where we have a reasonable expectation to make some? I'm sort of thinking in terms of irons - if the heel is lifted on an otherwise square strike, we would expect the ball to go right to some degree. With the very slight loft of a putter, can the same effect occur and would the typical golfer notice at these small angles?

I will share more thoughts on this subject in stage 2, but wanted to get some of this out there for discussion. 

[juspoole]

Played 9 holes today with my Scotty Cameron for the first time and some really interesting results. 16 putts for the day with 6/9 greens hit. Two birdies, one from 20 feet and another from 30 feet. Two other good chances, both on early holes and stopped just short but would have been center cut. 3 one putts and 1 three putt. 37. Needless to say my confidence was already coming back after going to my old putter for just 9 holes.

Will include more in my stage 2


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[golfertrb]

I just got home from spending about 3 hours on the practice green. Although I now have a bunch more data for make %, proximity, three putt % for both putters from a variety of distances, a thought popped into my head as I was there: what should be the effect on have the putter built 1 degree upright? Here's what I'm getting at - if I needed a more upright putter, but have adapted to using a putter with the heel slightly lifted for the last 5 years, should I expect a difference if the new putter sits flat and (hopefully) stays flat through impact? Could this be part of the reason for the slightly underwhelming results in the 6-18 foot range where we have a reasonable expectation to make some? I'm sort of thinking in terms of irons - if the heel is lifted on an otherwise square strike, we would expect the ball to go right to some degree. With the very slight loft of a putter, can the same effect occur and would the typical golfer notice at these small angles?
I will share more thoughts on this subject in stage 2, but wanted to get some of this out there for discussion. 

That's a good question. The difference a degree of lie angle can make is always surprising to me so it's possible. I wonder how quickly you would adapt to the new lie angle though - I know when being fit for irons for example, the fitter often wants you to hit no more than a few shots with each option because of how quickly the player adapts. Adapting to the new putter is not necessarily the same as the question you are asking however. This makes me think of Steve Striker who plays with his putter significantly off the ground and does not want one that "fits" him. Do you have a particular miss with the Stroke Lab?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[golfertrb]

I have something similar going on with mine - I have noticed I'm pushing many more putts than normal.  I have a slight in to down the line stroke with a slight arc on the through swing, but don't feel like I get it around as well as my current putter

I wonder if it is a weight issue. I noticed you put ted well when you went back to your Scotty and it could be you can feel the club head better with it vs the counter-balancing of the Stroke Lab. The two issues I had were the counter-balancing and the insert - one impacted line and both impacted speed. I'm interested to hear your thoughts as to why you put ted better with the Scotty. I'm sure familiarity played a part but "feel" is so important in putting and the insert and weighting will "feel" quite different when compared to your gamer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MaxEntropy]

13 hours ago, golfertrb said:

Do you have a particular miss with the Stroke Lab?

In general, it's long and left or short and right. Since I've never really seen that trend with my Ping, it makes me wonder if I'm making some kind of weird subconscious change. 

One thing I'm strongly considering once stage 2 is up is giving the claw grip another go (the last time I tried it I had great control of line, but distance control sucked). The fitter suggested I should try at least practicing with it to give me the feel of less right hand through the stroke. 

[golfertrb]

In general, it's long and left or short and right. Since I've never really seen that trend with my Ping, it makes me wonder if I'm making some kind of weird subconscious change. 

One thing I'm strongly considering once stage 2 is up is giving the claw grip another go (the last time I tried it I had great control of line, but distance control sucked). The fitter suggested I should try at least practicing with it to give me the feel of less right hand through the stroke. 

 

I bet you are making some subconscious stroke compensation. It sounds like you are either holding off (short and right) or when you are actually putting a stroke on it it's long and left. Which always brings in doubt when you are missing both ways. I am interested in how the claw works for you since that is designed to eliminate the compensations our hands often make with the putter. Do you think you will stick it out with the Stroke Lab?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GolfSpy_APH]

A few days delayed, but here is a round update. 

Long and short of it was things have been turning around and I have noticed a significant different is putting with the stroke lab when on slower greens compared to faster greens.

Here are a few screen shots from the last two rounds. 

Both rounds were okay, not amazing and my tee shots leave a lot to be desired which I would mark as the main cause for scoring woes. That's 3 more new courses for the season which brings me to 13 rounds at 12 different courses! 

[MaxEntropy]

49 minutes ago, golfertrb said:

 

I bet you are making some subconscious stroke compensation. It sounds like you are either holding off (short and right) or when you are actually putting a stroke on it it's long and left. Which always brings in doubt when you are missing both ways. I am interested in how the claw works for you since that is designed to eliminate the compensations our hands often make with the putter. Do you think you will stick it out with the Stroke Lab?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That makes sense. I don't want to make a dramatic change on grip while I'm still testing, so once I'm done with my data collection, I'll play around with the claw and report back. I also think I need to do the yard stick drill a bunch, which is one thing I haven't done with this putter. 

As far as whether I'll stick with the Stroke Lab, I'm not sure yet. I like the feel and lag putting is much better. 

[Berg Ryman]

Overslept this morning, failed you all 

[Berg Ryman]

So a few weeks left in this testing and review thread, I figure I'd let all of you in on my future testing protocols with the Stroke Lab going forward.

I'm hoping to put together at least 3 more Stroke Lab Only rounds, bringing my total to seven 18 hole rounds and two 9 hole excursions. They will be weekend rounds, probably not on my home course as I'm looking for cheap deals at local places and my Saturdays are well booked with the girlfriend for the next three weeks, car show, city wide festival and likely final testing round with her on camera and playing along side.

I will be tracking every putt taken, none will be conceded to test my mettle. At the end of this, I think I'll be pretty well informed as to where The One and I stand. I hope y'all enjoy the next few weeks as we wind this down and I wish the best of golf to my fellow Labbies @juspoole @MaxEntropy and @Apolloshowl, roll them well boys. 

[MaxEntropy]

Ping is in the bag for league tonight to help determine if I was riding a hot streak early in the year or if there is something Stroke Lab-related that I need to overcome. I'll report back this evening. 

[MaxEntropy]

OK, so it appears the issue is me, not the putter. I didn't putt terribly, but missed on a couple decent opportunities - both I hit on my intended line, but played too much break. No three putts and one 1 putt. 

[juspoole]

Conditions were really tough out there....... (tiger voice).  Played over the weekend and trying to finalize my comparisons.  Used my Scotty for a full 18 and then I will use the stroke lab for the next round and then complete my stage 2.  Game was not on by any means, but managed to squeak out a 79 in a heat advisory and some gusting winds.  Did not have many good looks at birdie as I only hit 6 greens for the day and 7 fairways.  However, I did capitalize on many and managed 3 birdies in those 6 chances.  Overall I had 27 putts, mostly due to good chipping, but I was still able to make a lot of 5-6 footers and two 15 footers for par that kept me in the round.  Only one putt got away from me - it was a 35 footer that was much more down hill than I initially thought and knocked it about 8 feet past and missed the come back.