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Course Playability Factor - CPF


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I like the way you think Plaid! Great idea!

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In my       :ping-small: DLX Cart Bag:
Driver
:    :ping-small: G410 SFT, set to 9.5*, Mitsubishi Tensei CK Orange 60, stiff (MGS Official 2019 Tester)
3W:          :ping-small: G-Series SF TEC, set to 16*, Aldila Tour Blue ATX, 65g, stiff
5W:          :ping-small: G400 SFT, set to 19*, Aldila Tour Blue ATX, 65g, stiff
7W:         :ping-small: G410 SFT, set to 22*. Alta CB 65 Red, stiff

Irons:       :ping-small: GMax, Green Dot, 5-PW, Project X Graphite Blue 6.0, 80-90g , stiff
Wedges: :ping-small: Glide 2.0 Stealth, 50* SS, 54* ES & 60*/8 Forged MGS Special from the Wedge Wizard, Green Dot, Alta CB graphite, 84g, stiff
Putter:     :ping-small: Vault 2.0 B60 Copper, 33", black dot w/GP SNSR grip (PING Sigma 2 Fetch under "see-trials")
Ball:       :Snell: MTB BLACK (MGS Official 2018 Tester for the :Snell: MTB RED)
Shoes:     :footjoy-small:  Classics Tour w/Black Widow Softspikes

Disabled Marine Veteran. Semper Fi!

#No apologies, just Play Your Best
#Powertotheplayers

 

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1 minute ago, Shankster said:

You should Plaident that.

*groans*

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Wilson Staff C300 9.0* Fujikura Pro 58 stiff

Callaway Rogue 3W Mitsubishi Diamana D+ LTD 80 stiff

Mizuno MP-18 MMC FLI-HI 2 iron UST Mamiya Recoil 95 stiff

Ping I200's 4-W Aerotech Steelfiber I110 CW stiff

Ping Glide 52* and 58* stiff

Bettinardi Studio Stock #38 Armlock

 

 

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My feeling is that people that go to a fitting already know what length of course they can reasonably play, or should be playing.  The ones we see that play from the wrong tees probably have never been to a fitting and probably wouldn't go anyway.  But I like the idea!!

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I know which tees I should be playing .... my problem is that the group that I play with (about 24-30) require me to play from the tees further back.  They set an arbitrary age of 70 to move to the blue tees.  Interestingly enough, the club tournaments place me on the blue tees because their age requirement is significantly lower than 70!  I can still play the gold tees (mens) but I enjoy playing the senior tees (blue) much more because I'm not hitting a long iron or fairway metal into every green!

But, I like your idea Plaid!  I think far too many higher handicap players play from the back tees for ego reasons.   If you can still shoot in the 70's from the back tees, good on you -- stay there.  But, if you're struggling from those back tees and the par 3s are requiring you to hit your driver, by all means, drop your ego at the door and move forward and enjoy the game again.

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Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Hybrids: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Irons:  :callaway-small: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite  TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright

Wedges: Edison 53* and  57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright

Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7S

Ball:  Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer...Shoes: :footjoy-small: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather

 

My Photography can be seen at Smugmug

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The fitters job is to find the best fit for the customer and sell clubs. The monitor software would need to be tweaked to provide that and there need to be a business need for companies to make that tweak.

Most golfers know where they should play from and ego gets in the way. Course layout has as much to do with playability as does the distance on the scorecard. 

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I think this is on the right track, but ive played with plenty of guys that can hit it 270+ yet don't have any business being on the back tees. There's more to being a highly skilled golfer than how far you can hit driver.

Take Dead Aim

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Take Dead Aim

Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* 

Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15*

Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18*

Irons: Titleist 714CB 4-PW

Wedges: Vokey SM5 & SM6 50/54/58

Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar

Ball: Srixon Z-Star

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How many men want to be told they should play further up?  Egos can be easily bruised.

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Driver - Ping G410

Woods - Callaway Rogue 5 wood

Hybrid - Titleist TS2 21 degree

Irons - Taylormade P790 5-PW

Wedges - Taylormade MG3 50, 54, 58, SM9 60

Putter - Mizuno Black Carbon BC3

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15 minutes ago, ED13 said:

How many men want to be told they should play further up?  Egos can be easily bruised.

None that I know of. But it's funny.... a few years ago I made the decision that I needed to make the long overdue decision to move a tee so to speak. I was consistently playing longer approaches than a lot of guys I normally played with. I was at a disadvantage to them and the course and they loved it. Then one day when I finally moved up they bitched and groaned because now I was with them in the fairway off the tee. Their advantage evaporated. Truth be told... they have also lost distance and a few of them have moved up as well. Funny how that works sometimes. LOL

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My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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Interestingly enough, I have always played about 6900 yards at my home course. I never realized that it is actually fairly further than most courses. I generally hit the ball pretty far (7 iron from 190 yards- 200 if i hit it hard) so I never really noticed it being an insanely long course. I really want to see and play a course where it would really challenge me and force me to hit 5 irons into greens to see what I would end up shooting.

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WITB 2019

Driver: :taylormade-small:Taylormade M2 8.5 w/ Xstiff Aldila RIP Beta shaft

2 Iron: :taylormade-small:Talormade P790 UDI 17 degree w/ Hazardus Xstiff driver shaft

4-PW: :taylormade-small:Taylormade PSI iron w/ KBS C-taper stiff iron shafts

52 degree: :cleveland-small:Cleveland RTX 3

56 degree: :callaway-small:Callaway Mac Daddy 4

60 degree-::taylormade-small:Taylormade milled grind

Putter: :cameron-small:Scotty Cameron Dual Balance X5

Ball::titelist-small:ProV1x

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I automatically head for the white tees and rarely give it (course yardage, slope, etc.) much thought. For the caliber of courses I typically play, they seem appropriate for my game. Some courses, like Las Barancas in Yuma, have 5 tees and they are listed/recommended based on handicap. It seems most course layouts have the tee lengths matched well to the histogram of player ability - whether the player allows ego to choose the wrong tee is another matter.  Perhaps in addition to a handicap, we should have a "carry length index" (CDI) which you must show to the starter and/or marshals. 😉

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:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/19/2019 at 12:59 PM, bmaru99 said:

Interestingly enough, I have always played about 6900 yards at my home course. I never realized that it is actually fairly further than most courses. I generally hit the ball pretty far (7 iron from 190 yards- 200 if i hit it hard) so I never really noticed it being an insanely long course. I really want to see and play a course where it would really challenge me and force me to hit 5 irons into greens to see what I would end up shooting.

Occasionally use only hybrids or long irons off every tee.  That would give you an idea how you would play longer courses.

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14 of the following:

Ping G425 Max

Callaway Epic Max 5 wood

Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees

Callaway Epic Max 11 wood

PXG 0311P Gen. 3  6-GW

PXG 0211 5-GW

PXG 0211 sand wedge bent to 53 degrees

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 60 degree

Evnroll ER2

Ping Sigma 2 Anser

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  • 1 month later...
On 6/9/2019 at 11:25 PM, CarlH said:

I know which tees I should be playing .... my problem is that the group that I play with (about 24-30) require me to play from the tees further back.  They set an arbitrary age of 70 to move to the blue tees.  Interestingly enough, the club tournaments place me on the blue tees because their age requirement is significantly lower than 70!  I can still play the gold tees (mens) but I enjoy playing the senior tees (blue) much more because I'm not hitting a long iron or fairway metal into every green!

But, I like your idea Plaid!  I think far too many higher handicap players play from the back tees for ego reasons.   If you can still shoot in the 70's from the back tees, good on you -- stay there.  But, if you're struggling from those back tees and the par 3s are requiring you to hit your driver, by all means, drop your ego at the door and move forward and enjoy the game again.

I'm trying to convince our regular group that 50 should be the cutoff for shorter tees.  After all, the pros move onto the Senior Tour don't they?

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:titleist-small:TSi2 driver,:callaway-small:Mavrik 3W, :cobra-small: F6 Baffler
:callaway-small:XR 4, 5 hybrids
:titleist-small:AP1 716 irons
:ping-small:Glide 2.0 Stealth 54 /14, :taylormade-small:MG2 58/11 wedges
:PXG:Battle Ready Bat Attack putter

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10 minutes ago, Dr Strangelove said:

I'm trying to convince our regular group that 50 should be the cutoff for shorter tees.  After all, the pros move onto the Senior Tour don't they?

its about ability not age- imagine a 4 ball of Tom Watsons all being told they need to move up....lol

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Driver     Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs)  
4 Wood   Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+  :callaway-small: Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex

Hybrid     Titleist 910H 19*    :titelist-small:   Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S'

Irons         Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW   :mizuno-small:  N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S'

Wedges    Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54*  :callaway-small:   KBS Tour in 'R'

Putter        'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5"

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45 minutes ago, Dr Strangelove said:

I'm trying to convince our regular group that 50 should be the cutoff for shorter tees.  After all, the pros move onto the Senior Tour don't they?

I've always liked the idea of "age plus handicap" to determine tees for events.  For recreational rounds, play whatever tees you want.  🙂

  • Like 1

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Hybrids: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Irons:  :callaway-small: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite  TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright

Wedges: Edison 53* and  57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright

Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7S

Ball:  Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer...Shoes: :footjoy-small: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather

 

My Photography can be seen at Smugmug

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As a side note to this topic I've become very interested in the Long Leaf System. I've mentioned it before in another post somewhere.

Take a look at this and see what you think... Makes good sense to me.

http://www.longleafteesystem.com/#our-purpose

 

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My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

This wasn’t what I was thinking it would be when I checked in - it’s actually better.

The soft ware could be tweaked to show a guy what clubs the average tour player uses for his approach shots and then the course length that particular guy would need to be at to play like a pro.

Instead of playability factor or tee if forward how about play it like they do. Or some other title that gets a guy pumped for the challenge - he’s trying to equal what pros do.

I like the idea


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Taylor Made Stealth 10.5  Aldila Ascent Red R flex

Ping G410 5, 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 5-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

SCOR 52, 56  

Ping Glide 3.0  Ping Eye 2 grind 58.8

L.A.B. Mezz.1 32.5"

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

 

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I think the club fitting business is overlooking a big opportunity to help golfers even more. As many of us know; playing properly fit golf golf equipment is important. I believe a large population of this forum already have that and understand the benefits of playing clubs fit to your swing and ability. However, I think club fitters are missing an opportunity to help golfers even more.
At the end of a fitting session club fitter should IMO present a recommendation to their customers for the optimal course length they should be playing. They've already gathered all the data and know how far their customer hits the ball. Driver and irons. Generally speaking a fitting strives to add distance and tighten up the customers shot disbursement. Yes, I know there are many more data points; but increasing a customers distance is usually the King of club fitting. Therefore, at the end of the fitting the club fitter should also be able to present to their customer a range of acceptable yardages they should consider playing from. For example:  6,300 - 6,500 yards. Or perhaps 6,800 - 7,000. Maybe 5,800 - 6,000. The launch monitor will automatically calculate the CPF based on the data gathered.
As we all know - men especially; play from the wrong tee (too long!) all to often. So, at the end of the fitting -  the fitter hands the customer their data sheet with all the information gathered during the session which also includes a recommended or suggested course length/yardage. Perhaps it's called the CPF - Course Playability Factor. 
1.5200 - 5500
2. 5600 - 5900
3. 6000 - 6300
4. 6400 - 6650
5. 6800 - 7000+

Great post;
This process is “encouraged” in The Villages.
The teaching Pros I know, local News Paper and Starter Shacks has this posted.
We have WAY too many guys who believe they’re the 30 year old studs from 49 years ago. Our golf groups have adopted this type of thinking and has somewhat worked. There’s always that 10% that want to play poorly from the tips instead of decently from the proper yardage.



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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Titleist TSi2, Kuro Kage 50 gr   
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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