CLONES! - Callaway RAZR Hawk Driver Clone

[GolfSpy_X]

:

[Xamilo]

It was expected to happen sooner than later when a club has the amount of buzz the RAZR or R11 or SF 2.0 have had. Now we just need to wait for the clones and counterfeit illegal ones to flood eBay

[GolfSpy_X]

They are already out there.

[rowjow]

That just looks like a picture of a razr hawk which has been digitally changed!

[Moecat]

Strange choice of words: "Rhino Rifle"

[apples]

Am i the only one wondering how it performs? Lol i'm a little curious as to how close it is to the real thing

[BIG STU]

I can remember the much anticipated (not for me) Nike Square drivers. Nike had announced the release date and the clones came out a month and a half before the real thing. I know because the golf shop I was working at could not build the clones fast enough. I think we sold 50 or so before the "real thing came out. Everyone that got the clones from us liked them they even had that annoying clack like hitting an aluminun baseball bat. Nothing in the "golf world" surprises me any more.

[Miboy62]

It's amazing how fast they come out with them.

[Mattro]

Am i the only one wondering how it performs? Lol i'm a little curious as to how close it is to the real thing

 

 

Nope, I saw the other thread with the Superfast (Rhino Rifle) and instantly wondered how it would work.

[scottymac825]

Are these people selling golf clubs or photoshopped pictures?

[Justin66]

Nope, I saw the other thread with the Superfast (Rhino Rifle) and instantly wondered how it would work.

 

 

My brother had a clone Hi-Bore (the original, not the Monster or XLS) and that thing worked great. I put a Purlple Ice 75 "S" in it and it became his best-performing driver. His twin, who isn't that good (but he doesn't get to play or practice near as much) ended up denting the heel- but I can't complain too much. I dented the toe of my original Sasquatch (the real thing) within a year of buying it.

 

My guess is, it'll perform just as well. There's been articles written about some of the OEMs relying on the foundries to come up with their designs. But as is always the case when it comes to equipment "reveals", no names are ever given. It does make me wonder how much intellectual ownership some of the OEMs really have on their designs.

[fozcycle]

How about the Callaway RAZR iron clones?

 

Grand Hawk

 

 

or the Taylormade 2.0 clones?

 

Turbo Power Fire 3.0

[Tristan777]

Every time i see a clone that catches my eye, the sight convinces me not to buy it. They all look fraudulent and scam heavy its a bummer too. Some of their clubs look nice.

[Shambles]

I'm falling out of the habit of buying new clubs.

 

I don't mind the clones so much as long as a difference is obvious, but counterfeits are openly sold in my part of the world and priced fairly close to the real thing. A friend of mine broke the head in use of one of his Irons, not knowing he was playing a counterfeit. I experienced a broken face on a driver.

 

To make things worse, I heard that a couple of distributors of the genuine brands actually saw counterfeits on sale in the open and did nothing more than talk about them being counterfeits.

 

I think it would save me money to just stop buying new clubs for a couple of years and just watch what happens. Lucky for me I am already overstocked and am not in the habit of selling my old stuff. Frankly, I even have doubts about how authentic some of my clubs are.

 

 

Shambles

[Kanoito]

What I do is, game the branded clubs and order the clones from Diamond Tour Golf (see my signature) That way I know which clone SHOULD be similar to the original one.

I don't really don't mind if it's from the same foundry or not... it works for me!

 

I would actually like MGS to provide reviews for some clubs sold at Diamond Tour.

[skihippy]

To be honest with you the best clone place I have ever seen is form Gigagolf.com. These guys know what there doing and have a really good staff behind them. To be honest with you the way I think of them is a young cleveland, they just haven't come out with there own line yet.

[Nick92]

I smell law suite! lol

[Justin66]

 

I would actually like MGS to provide reviews for some clubs sold at Diamond Tour.

 

 

I'd give that a whole-hearted second. If ANYONE could/would do it, MGS is the site I'd feel comfortable with to do it. I HIGHLY doubt the big golf media outlets would even think of it... if it was proven that they are exactly, or even close, to performing as their OEM counterparts (mind you, the test would have to be fair and unbiased), the whole world would probably explode.

 

I know it would be fun. I have the Inazone Shadow CNC wedges that are supposed to be like Vokeys. I will hands down say that, as far as what I can do with a wedge (and I still own two of my older Vokeys) they are the same. Not the same material: Vokey's are 1020ish carbon steel, Inazone's are 304 stainless. There's no playability difference, and they're very close in hardness (based on the Rockwell Hardness Scale). I don't own any woods, hybrids or irons from DTG, but I think I can extrapolate an outcome...

 

What say you, MGS? Interested in something like this?

[Kanoito]

Justin! I have the same Shadow CNC Wedge in 60* and for my level I really can't tell the difference (I tried a Vokey from a friend... that's how I found out wedges existed lol)

 

I had their Rapture V2 iron clones and even though the added weight on the sole wasn't cloned, I couldn't tell the difference to my colleague's real Rapture V2.

 

Right now I'm gaming their Cobra S2 clone driver and it's the best thing I've ever hit (could be thanks to the Daiwa shaft? I don't know lol)

 

Also bought their TM Superfast clone and just like the original... I didn't like it

 

But I agree with Justin, if there is one place where we can get objective, unbiased reviews it's here!

[Tristan777]

Yah. I want to buy the Turner True Speed II White Driver, the one that looks like the white Taylormade Superfast 2.0 I wish they would review with a side by side comparison of the two. I'd rather not spend so much on a driver with a different name <_>

[r2wtrials]

I am relatively new to golf and didn't even know "cloned" clubs were available and legal to sell. Perhaps the law is different here in the UK.

We always hear about the fakes on ebay etc, but never the availability of cloned clubs.

Is there anyone here from the UK that has experienced these products at all... would be nice to get something that performs as the top rated club but without the added expense of paying for tour players and advertising!

 

The European laws on copyright may prevent them being sold here i guess.

[Kanoito]

Fakes/counterfeits are illegal, clones aren't.

 

Fakes copy 100% of the original club and fool the consumer into thinking they are buying the real deal.

 

Clones are supposed to come out of the same foundry, using same materials, molds, tooling as the original ones, but they have their own branding (model, color, etc) so they are making you think you are buying the real deal.

 

I know that Diamond Tour had a partner in the UK selling clones, but it didn't work out I guess.

 

However, I have bought like 6 sets of clubs from Diamond Tour and have them shipped to Germany and I didn't have any customs problems. Just had to pay the shipping and some taxes.

 

UKcustomgolf carries such clones (not sure if they are any good though).

[Noonan]

Is clone the new word for knock-off???

 

I bought a 'knock-off' G10 head one year in China for really cheap and shafted it myself just to see what it would perform like. Definitely sounded terrible and hit the ball 10 yards shorter, but for a terrible golfer with zero interest in spending big bucks, 'Clones' seems like a reasonable way to go.

[Kanoito]

Is clone the new word for knock-off???

 

I bought a 'knock-off' G10 head one year in China for really cheap and shafted it myself just to see what it would perform like. Definitely sounded terrible and hit the ball 10 yards shorter, but for a terrible golfer with zero interest in spending big bucks, 'Clones' seems like a reasonable way to go.

 

Well.. nowadays... even the OEM's manufacture in China, so it's not a decisive factor. Although I read somewhere that many companies went back to their foundries in Taiwan due to quality issues in China?

 

Anyways, for a beginner I honestly believe I can't tell the difference. I'm the only one playing clones in my friend's circle so I get to borrow their real clubs and test them head to head: it sounds the same, goes the same distance.

 

That's why I would love to see MGS review such clubs (like they did with Dynacraft). I want to see if scratch golfers or good players can actually tell the difference. Most good players I know refuse to test clones... they are so brand loyal. But I know that's not the case with the folks at MGS, so I can trust the unbiased reviews.

[Justin66]

Is clone the new word for knock-off???

 

I bought a 'knock-off' G10 head one year in China for really cheap and shafted it myself just to see what it would perform like. Definitely sounded terrible and hit the ball 10 yards shorter, but for a terrible golfer with zero interest in spending big bucks, 'Clones' seems like a reasonable way to go.

 

It has nothing to do with skill level.

 

According to Golf Magazine, it's very easy to steal technology. It also doesn't help that some of the OEMs rely on the foundry to do their R&D... though no one ever mentions who, making it tough to really prove. Adding 2 with 2 and getting 5, it seems to me that Callaway, Taylormade and Ping are the ones... For instance, I've never seen an Adams Speedline/Fast-series clone, or a Wilson/Staff Smooth clone, or Mizuno clones in legitimate channels. I have seen the rare Nike Sasquatch clones and some Titleist, but they were on Ebay, so it was one of those " " deals.

 

You have to ask yourself: why is a place like Diamond Tour Golf or GigaGolf still open, if they're supposedly violating the law? Either the OEMs being cloned have no control of their property, or there's some type of deal involved. If it was stolen and cloned, that'd be illegal, but since no one's going to jail, that's a wash. But if it was illegal some other way, wouldn't you think someone as big as Taylormade- who, along with the other OEMs, are pumping billions into efforts to stop counterfeiting- take umbrage with this? Their only "defense" (I don't even know if you can call it that) is to try to demonize any type of off-brand. Of course, they're all busy demonizing the USGA and each other as well, so it's hard to really get to the meat of what's going on.

 

Sounds like I might have another project on my hands...

[Kanoito]

Sounds like I might have another project on my hands...

 

I'm curious about it!

 

I am not sure how it works in the golf industry, but for example in the IT industry where I work at it goes like this:

 

Our factory in Taiwan does the R&D, the customer (the OEM) will pay for the tooling and molds of the product (a PC or a mobile phone)

Only the customer who paid for the tooling and molds has the right to purchase his model, if I sell the exact same model to another customer then I'm violating the contract/law/whatever.

 

So one way to circumvent this limitation is modifying the model slightly... either by adding some contour, changing the colors, etc...

 

This will obviously reduce the cost of creating a new model from scratch... let's say the customer paid $100.000 for his tooling, I could use $80.000 of it and then pay $20.000 myself to add my color, logo or stamping.

 

Do they steal the R&D and technology as well? Hard to say... Diamond Tour had the Rapture V2 clones (which was my first set... the clones, not the real deal) and I noticed the Rapture had this separate metal sole... not sure if it was titanium or whatever. Anyways, it's supposed to create higher launch by bringing the weight close to the sole, etc.

 

On the clone, you don't see that metal part... it's one single piece just like any other iron.

 

2 answers come to my mind:

 

1. Either there is no technology to steal from

or

2. They couldn't copy the key aspects of the original, making this clone... not very good

 

Does it make a difference? Not for me. Perhaps for a good player it will.

That's the reason why I'm so anxious about having MGS test further clones (DTG, Gigagolf, Pinemeadow, Hireko) just to know if they perform similarly or is it just a big hoax and they don't come close to the real deal performance-wise.

[tiger plays 18 hoes a day]

these brands are pathetic, they have no technology and try to look like the originals. i can almost guarantee that this driver isn't made with forged composite technology and hyperbolic face technology.

[Justin66]

 

On the clone, you don't see that metal part... it's one single piece just like any other iron.

 

2 answers come to my mind:

 

1. Either there is no technology to steal from

or

2. They couldn't copy the key aspects of the original, making this clone... not very good

 

Does it make a difference? Not for me. Perhaps for a good player it will.

That's the reason why I'm so anxious about having MGS test further clones (DTG, Gigagolf, Pinemeadow, Hireko) just to know if they perform similarly or is it just a big hoax and they don't come close to the real deal performance-wise.

 

What you see in the "real" club is just visible technology. Some companies emphasize what they're trying to promote by changing a color, or adding a special badge, or colored flecks in the new "technology". Like those Rapture's- that's tungsten in the sole, and it's designed to lower the CG. How much is truly there has never been stated, as far as I can remember. They'll tell you the percentage of how much the CG is lowered, though. Same goes for Taylormade's "inverted cone technology"... it's smaller than the badge would have you believe.

 

"Hyperbolic" has two possible meanings, since the word can be used with either:

 

1. based off the word "Hyperbola": –noun Geometry .

the set of points in a plane whose distances to two fixed points in the plane have a constant difference; a curve consisting of two distinct and similar branches, formed by the intersection of a plane with a right circular cone when the plane makes a greater angle with the base than does the generator of the cone. Equation: x 2 /a 2 − y 2 /b 2 = ±1.

 

2. based of the word "Hyperbole": –noun Rhetoric .

1.

obvious and intentional exaggeration.

2.

an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

 

Thanks, Dictionary.com.

 

Now, which is it? I think it's #2...

[RookieBlue7]

For everyone wanting a clone test, I'm willing to bet the numbers turn up different from OEM to clone. Why? There's a reason clones are cheaper, one is materials used. Two is that the outside looks te same but they're different inside, where it counts. Ever seen a cline head cut in half? Looks tons different than an OEM cut in half.

[Justin66]

For everyone wanting a clone test, I'm willing to bet the numbers turn up different from OEM to clone. Why? There's a reason clones are cheaper, one is materials used. Two is that the outside looks te same but they're different inside, where it counts. Ever seen a cline head cut in half? Looks tons different than an OEM cut in half.

 

 

And that's my goal: find out how true that is.