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2 minutes ago, Dr Strangelove said:

He doesn't talk about squatting but a lot of the lessons focus on the same concept of using the ground.  The slow motions on his subscription site look almost the same.  Of course, he IS prescriptive.

Using the ground is pretty common it seems, Gankas (to me) seems to want to do a major squat with big time leg separation while Clements wants golfers to slightly squat while rotating and using gravity to get the clubhead moving. 

No matter what, different styles work for different folks. Whatever gets you to shoot better golf is A-OK with me.

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1 minute ago, russtopherb said:

Using the ground is pretty common it seems, Gankas (to me) seems to want to do a major squat with big time leg separation while Clements wants golfers to slightly squat while rotating and using gravity to get the clubhead moving. 

No matter what, different styles work for different folks. Whatever gets you to shoot better golf is A-OK with me.

I hadn't picked up on the leg separation.  Still trying to figure out whether to try the Gankas site.  Not cheap.

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7 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Using the ground is pretty common it seems, Gankas (to me) seems to want to do a major squat with big time leg separation while Clements wants golfers to slightly squat while rotating and using gravity to get the clubhead moving. 

No matter what, different styles work for different folks. Whatever gets you to shoot better golf is A-OK with me.

His emphasis on the squat and leg separation has a lot to do with real vs. feel. He promotes what looks like an excessive movement because in reality it isn't nearly as pronounced. This is something a lot of golfers seem to struggle with and it's one of the things I like about his methods. If you can get a golfer to FEEL like they are making this big exaggerated movement and then put them in front of a camera actually hitting a golf ball, the REAL is often much more subtle, but provides the end result you were looking for.

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18 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

Using the ground is pretty common it seems, Gankas (to me) seems to want to do a major squat with big time leg separation while Clements wants golfers to slightly squat while rotating and using gravity to get the clubhead moving. 

No matter what, different styles work for different folks. Whatever gets you to shoot better golf is A-OK with me.

GG uses the ground with the trail foot rotating externally while “squatting” and rotating. Then a big push thru contact 

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Posted (edited)

What is GG 'using the ground' for exactly?

I know Shawn Clement says 'get the ground' to get the body out of the way of the swinging 'arms/club unit'  (being thrown to the target). That this is part of the  'kinetic chain'  that we are already 'wired  to do'  when focused on doing an intended task.

Seems there is a lot of talk about 'Ground Reaction Forces' and how it can relate to clubhead speed . But can anyone really explain exactly how squatting and 'pushing off' can create clubhead speed?

Here is Shawn demonstrating the bobbing up and down that we would naturally 'bilaterally' do when we wanted swing something faster in a vertical plane. 

Note 'definition' of Bilateral movement is : Bilateral coordination refers to the ability to coordinate both sides of the body at the same time in a controlled and organized manner; for example, stabilizing paper with one hand while writing/ cutting with the other.Good bilateral integration/ coordination is an indicator that both sides of the brain are communicating effectively and sharing information.  

 

 

 

Imho , Shawn is demonstrating a different technique to create hand speed and sharp change in hand path. It seems to be a more natural way of creating clubhead speed while also retaining balance (using the muscles in the legs to brace against the increased tension in the clubshaft that is pulling on you). 

But remember that golf is not all about creating clubhead speed because you also have to square the clubface by impact. We might be 'wired in'  to  'throwing things'  to a target , but the squaring of the clubface by impact is unnatural imho.

Edited by Wildthing

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10 hours ago, Wildthing said:

What is GG 'using the ground' for exactly?

I know Shawn Clement says 'get the ground' to get the body out of the way of the swinging 'arms/club unit'  (being thrown to the target). That this is part of the  'kinetic chain'  that we are already 'wired  to do'  when focused on doing an intended task.

Seems there is a lot of talk about 'Ground Reaction Forces' and how it can relate to clubhead speed . But can anyone really explain exactly how squatting and 'pushing off' can create clubhead speed?

Here is Shawn demonstrating the bobbing up and down that we would naturally 'bilaterally' do when we wanted swing something faster in a vertical plane. 

Note 'definition' of Bilateral movement is : Bilateral coordination refers to the ability to coordinate both sides of the body at the same time in a controlled and organized manner; for example, stabilizing paper with one hand while writing/ cutting with the other.Good bilateral integration/ coordination is an indicator that both sides of the brain are communicating effectively and sharing information.  

 

 

 

Imho , Shawn is demonstrating a different technique to create hand speed and sharp change in hand path. It seems to be a more natural way of creating clubhead speed while also retaining balance (using the muscles in the legs to brace against the increased tension in the clubshaft that is pulling on you). 

But remember that golf is not all about creating clubhead speed because you also have to square the clubface by impact. We might be 'wired in'  to  'throwing things'  to a target , but the squaring of the clubface by impact is unnatural imho.

The concept GG uses is the same as what Shawn was talking about and what he mentioned in the Sean foley article. The kinematic sequence uses the legs to initiate the downswing. Posting on the front leg has always been a principle in the golf swing. Legs straightens and club goes down. 

Rory and Lexi are good examples of udingbthe ground.

with gg he also uses the ground to help with he squat and rotate. He uses the trail foot to externally rotate which gets the separation between the knees as the hips begin to rotate open. Then the trail foot helps initiate the push thru extension.  James Jordan teaches this push as well. As Shawn mentioned lots of instructors use the same teaching but have different ways of explaining it.

as for the clubface getting square the body rotation vice the hands are responsible for getting the clubface square. Being in the right positions throughout the swing allows this to be done with little manipulation needed by the hands 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The concept GG uses is the same as what Shawn was talking about and what he mentioned in the Sean foley article. The kinematic sequence uses the legs to initiate the downswing. Posting on the front leg has always been a principle in the golf swing. Legs straightens and club goes down. 

Rory and Lexi are good examples of udingbthe ground.

with gg he also uses the ground to help with he squat and rotate. He uses the trail foot to externally rotate which gets the separation between the knees as the hips begin to rotate open. Then the trail foot helps initiate the push thru extension.  James Jordan teaches this push as well. As Shawn mentioned lots of instructors use the same teaching but have different ways of explaining it.

as for the clubface getting square the body rotation vice the hands are responsible for getting the clubface square. Being in the right positions throughout the swing allows this to be done with little manipulation needed by the hands 

This is the bit that I find difficult to understand

" He uses the trail foot to externally rotate which gets the separation between the knees as the hips begin to rotate open" . 

Is this a cause or an effect of pelvic rotation?

For example see this instructors opinion on what turns the pelvis (it's not the feet torquing the ground) at 02:47

Basically he saying in the backswing

1. These pelvic rotary muscles stretch (especially the right side).

2. You weight pressure the right hip joint so its stable in space.

3. While point 2 happens , you contract those pelvic rotary muscles and they turn your pelvis counterclockwise (when you look from a top down view).  

The above sequence squares your pelvis from P4 to P5 only (as you do the squat) , then the 2nd phase of the downswing is using the glutes and other muscles (upper torso/obliques) to help rotate the pelvis some more (ie. from P5 onwards).

The right foot torquing against the ground is an 'effect' of the above points 1-3  not a 'cause' for pelvis rotation.

So we basically have 2 opinions on cause and effect of the pelvic rotation in the golf swing .

 

 

 

Edited by Wildthing

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The trail foot doesn't externally rotate, the trail knee does. It allows you to squat and rotate. The moment your trail knee rotates in you lose your center and you can't rotate through the ball 

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1 hour ago, jlukes said:

The trail foot doesn't externally rotate, the trail knee does. It allows you to squat and rotate. The moment your trail knee rotates you lose your center and you can't rotate through the ball 

Bingo. 

 

1 hour ago, jlukes said:

The trail foot doesn't externally rotate, the trail knee does. It allows you to squat and rotate. The moment your trail knee rotates you lose your center and you can't rotate through the ball 

He has videos where he has players use a paper plate or other object to make the back foot rotate to get the feeling then do the same without the plate.

he has tons of videos but this one might explain it to an extent on his philosophy for legs

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Bingo. 

 

He has videos where he has players use a paper plate or other object to make the back foot rotate to get the feeling then do the same without the plate.

he has tons of videos but this one might explain it to an extent on his philosophy for legs

 

 

 

Yup, here's a great simple video from Larry Cheung that demonstrates the same movement. 

 

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2 hours ago, Wildthing said:

This is the bit that I find difficult to understand

" He uses the trail foot to externally rotate which gets the separation between the knees as the hips begin to rotate open" . 

Is this a cause or an effect of pelvic rotation?

For example see this instructors opinion on what turns the pelvis (it's not the feet torquing the ground) at 02:47

Basically he saying in the backswing

1. These pelvic rotary muscles stretch (especially the right side).

2. You weight pressure the right hip joint so its stable in space.

3. While point 2 happens , you contract those pelvic rotary muscles and they turn your pelvis counterclockwise (when you look from a top down view).  

The above sequence squares your pelvis from P4 to P5 only (as you do the squat) , then the 2nd phase of the downswing is using the glutes and other muscles (upper torso/obliques) to help rotate the pelvis some more (ie. from P5 onwards).

The right foot torquing against the ground is an 'effect' of the above points 1-3  not a 'cause' for pelvis rotation.

So we basically have 2 opinions on cause and effect of the pelvic rotation in the golf swing .

 

 

 

At about the 5:35 mark his pressure in the feet open the hips. He stated the trail leg goes clockwise while the hips go counterclockwise.

hes basically teaching the same concepts that GG teaches, that the video from party that @jlukes posted as well as Danny Maude uses in some of his videos.

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Posted (edited)

I still don't understand how pushing the right leg/foot down and twist the foot/knee against the friction of the ground  can provide enough twisting force to move a heavy pelvis around in the downswing . Imho , seems like a lot of twisting stress put on the right knee. 

I find it more realistic to regard the pelvic rotation happening (from P4-P5) due to the powerful contraction of the pelvic rotary muscles.

250px-Posterior_Hip_Muscles_1.PNG

Backswing  Basically you use your torso muscles to move your pelvis around , while your right foot is stabilised on the ground and that stretches those right sided pelvic muscles as your 'right hip joint/pelvis' reaches the end of its rotary degree of freedom (ie. on the tush line).

Top Of Backswing /Transition : You get most of your weight pressure on that right hip joint - keeping it stable in space (ie. on the tush line).

Downswing: P4- P5  (Hip squaring phase) : You contract those right sided pelvic muscles and it rotates the left (and partial right) side of pelvis back to the tush line (ie. while the right hip joint is still parked on the tush line by all that weight pressure).

The above is just a general idea of an opinion that I tend to believe and its far more complex than the above (with regards which muscles are doing what in the full downswing).

 

 

 

Edited by Wildthing
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36 minutes ago, Wildthing said:

I still don't understand how pushing the right leg/foot down and twist the foot/knee against the friction of the ground  can provide enough twisting force to move a heavy pelvis around in the downswing . Imho , seems like a lot of twisting stress put on the right knee. 

I find it more realistic to regard the pelvic rotation happening (from P4-P5) due to the powerful contraction of the pelvic rotary muscles.

250px-Posterior_Hip_Muscles_1.PNG

Backswing  Basically you use your torso muscles to move your pelvis around , while your right foot is stabilised on the ground and that stretches those right sided pelvic muscles as your 'right hip joint/pelvis' reaches the end of its rotary degree of freedom (ie. on the tush line).

Top Of Backswing /Transition : You get most of your weight pressure on that right hip joint - keeping it stable in space (ie. on the tush line).

Downswing: P4- P5  (Hip squaring phase) : You contract those right sided pelvic muscles and it rotates the left (and partial right) side of pelvis back to the tush line (ie. while the right hip joint is still parked on the tush line by all that weight pressure).

The above is just a general idea of an opinion that I tend to believe and its far more complex than the above (with regards which muscles are doing what in the full downswing).

 

 

 

I think you might be over thinking it. Larry’s video is a good explanation of what’s happening. But if you really want more in depth go watch GGs videos. He has a bunch on leg work, his yo push off, how to get open

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On 6/14/2019 at 4:43 PM, chaseclelland said:


Really interested to hear how it goes. I am looking forward to the website and am an early subscriber. I hope it launches soon.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Hey, so I just got back from LA a few days ago.  I ended up getting a lesson from George's assistant coach, Mark, because George went out of town to do a photoshoot with Wolff for Golf Digest.  Mark was awesome!  The experience was great.  George has definitely cultivated a great group of people out there who truly care about ones experience.  They teach anyone who wants a lesson from high handicap to low.  I am a subscriber to George's website, and understand his concepts and am able to video myself and figure things out on my own.  However, having someone physically put me into certain positions and give me drills to work on specifically based on what they saw in my swing was very helpful.  George's website is so full of info it was good to have a few things pulled out and applied to me.  Overall, if you are in the area I highly recommend getting a lesson from George or Mark.

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Hey, so I just got back from LA a few days ago.  I ended up getting a lesson from George's assistant coach, Mark, because George went out of town to do a photoshoot with Wolff for Golf Digest.  Mark was awesome!  The experience was great.  George has definitely cultivated a great group of people out there who truly care about ones experience.  They teach anyone who wants a lesson from high handicap to low.  I am a subscriber to George's website, and understand his concepts and am able to video myself and figure things out on my own.  However, having someone physically put me into certain positions and give me drills to work on specifically based on what they saw in my swing was very helpful.  George's website is so full of info it was good to have a few things pulled out and applied to me.  Overall, if you are in the area I highly recommend getting a lesson from George or Mark.


How is the site? I don’t like that there are no training samples. One is expected to sign up for a year subscription for about $500 without knowing if the contents match their learning style.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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16 minutes ago, Dr Strangelove said:

 


How is the site? I don’t like that there are no training samples. One is expected to sign up for a year subscription for about $500 without knowing if the contents match their learning style.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

It sounds like it similar to some other online programs I’ve seen with the exception of how it unlocks courses.

if one isn’t an online learner it’s probably not for them. 

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17 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It sounds like it similar to some other online programs I’ve seen with the exception of how it unlocks courses.

if one isn’t an online learner it’s probably not for them. 

To be more clear, I don't think the Gankas videos that you can find on YouTube are very good.  The ones I have seen are always him giving tips to some guy while talking 100 MPH and they look like they are shot with someone's iPhone.  That's an exaggeration, but I don't want to pay $500 to get that. My point is that it would be nice to see a sample of what you are buying before putting down a substantial amount of money.  Or a trial period etc.

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I just enrolled in the program last week.  I have to say it has exceeded my expectations.  Each module/video is extremely detailed.  My favorite part about the program is he explains everything so that you can self diagnose and correct.  He doesn't just say what he feels are the right positions/moves - he explains ALL of the positions and moves and how each of them can impact the swing and ball flight.    

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