How much difference does course length make?

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, RI_Redneck said:

Yeah. A flaw in the system IMHO. Nowhere does it give a variance for conditions. Any course will play more difficult with difficult conditions.

Patience, that's coming in just a couple of months.

[fixyurdivot]

On 6/14/2019 at 3:41 PM, THEZIPR23 said:

I think that a lot of the distance changes depends on where the distance actually falls.

Agree, this pretty much nails it. I also think course/hole layout can make as much or more the difference as overall length.  

[DriverBreaker]

Patience, that's coming in just a couple of months.

Do tell! I haven’t heard of anything. What’s in the works?


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[DaveP043]

48 minutes ago, ChasingScratch said:

Do tell! I haven’t heard of anything. What’s in the works?
 

 

The World Golf Handicap System will take effect in the US in January 2020.  Among the changes will be an adjustment for abnormal course or weather conditions.  There are lots of resources at the USGA website, but this is one of the better descriptions I've found:

http://productionggs.s3.amazonaws.com/WHS-whitepaper.pdf

See pages 12-13 for a description of the Playing Conditions Calculation.

[HardcoreLooper]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:12 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yup. We have some courses in the area that have a mixed set of tees rated so one could do this easily on those courses. The scorecard shows what tees to play for the particular hole.

if not rated then not really able to enter for hdcp 

Check out this link: https://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=14

I used to do this with my older daughter on courses that were too short (in general) from the forward tees but too long (in general) from the next set back. 

Hitting a hybrid into a green meant to receive a low, running shot is fun. Hitting hybrid into a green meant to receive a short iron is frustrating. 

I just listened to a podcast with Barney Adams, and he talked about how Lee Trevino played from all sets of tees in order to have the right approach shot into the green. 

[Charli]

Length will always be tougher for me than tight. Obviously if it’s tight and long I’m screwed but length is it. It forces driver and a good drive at that. I’ve recently found my swing which is nice but it’ll never stay with me. Baseball is the death of me. Also your approaches are longer and most likely chipping instead of putting. But just my opinion 

[tony@CIC]

At our Club the course card has combo tees - you can see the distances in the pic below. As an example if you play from the whites it's 6294 but combo white and bronze = 5973. unfortunately the GHIN program doesn't have that flexibility - so if you log in the scores it's for a singular tee box only. 

[PlaidJacket]

16 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

At our Club the course card has combo tees

I wish the guys at my course would do this occasionally. I've mentioned this a few times but they just don't get it.

[CarlH]

We also have combo tees available, but ours is rated as such and we can actually post according to which tees are played.  I personally don't care for the combo tees, because whoever came up with them didn't put a lot of thought into which holes should be which tees (IMO).  For instance, one par 5 hole is played from the forward tees, but it's only a 6 yard difference and no angle change and the hardest and longest par 3 is still played from the back tees whereas a much shorter par 3 is played even shorter.

[RI_Redneck]

I was in Atlanta and had a free afternoon last week. I decided to try something as an experiment. I selected a tee time at The Frog that put me behind two foursomes. Playing by myself allowed me the freedom and time to play two balls, one each from the tips (7018, 73.5, 138) and the Blue tees (6239, 69.3, 127). The temp was around 65 and I had a slight breeze (<10mph). I selected a white Vice Pro for the tips and a red Vice pro for the Blues so there would be no mixing up of balls. Scored 41 with both balls on the front and 41 & 37 on the back giving me an 82 from the tips and a 78 from the blues. I found it comical that my scores had the same 4 stroke differential as the ratings, but I guess that's the way it's supposed to be. It definitely made a difference on some holes where there was 50-70 yards difference. I had birdies with both balls and a double with each also, so I feel it was a pretty good comparison. My typical drive carries around 250 at sea level. For reference, I had a good drive from the blues on #2 and was 30 yds from the center of the green. Anecdotal I know, but thought I'd share anyway.

BT

[STUDque]

2 hours ago, RI_Redneck said:

I was in Atlanta and had a free afternoon last week. I decided to try something as an experiment. I selected a tee time at The Frog that put me behind two foursomes. Playing by myself allowed me the freedom and time to play two balls, one each from the tips (7018, 73.5, 138) and the Blue tees (6239, 69.3, 127). The temp was around 65 and I had a slight breeze (<10mph). I selected a white Vice Pro for the tips and a red Vice pro for the Blues so there would be no mixing up of balls. Scored 41 with both balls on the front and 41 & 37 on the back giving me an 82 from the tips and a 78 from the blues. I found it comical that my scores had the same 4 stroke differential as the ratings, but I guess that's the way it's supposed to be. It definitely made a difference on some holes where there was 50-70 yards difference. I had birdies with both balls and a double with each also, so I feel it was a pretty good comparison. My typical drive carries around 250 at sea level. For reference, I had a good drive from the blues on #2 and was 30 yds from the center of the green. Anecdotal I know, but thought I'd share anyway.

BT

I did something like this last year but it was the tips and the reds. Similar findings that my score was lower from the front because on many holes I was chipping on for a GIR whereas I still had full shots from the back. Of note, I found some new trouble I had never considered before since the course also plays different. 
 

I can try this again now that it's getting colder out. Maybe I can drag @Shankster out

[downlowkey]

4 hours ago, RI_Redneck said:

I was in Atlanta and had a free afternoon last week. I decided to try something as an experiment. I selected a tee time at The Frog that put me behind two foursomes. Playing by myself allowed me the freedom and time to play two balls, one each from the tips (7018, 73.5, 138) and the Blue tees (6239, 69.3, 127). The temp was around 65 and I had a slight breeze (<10mph). I selected a white Vice Pro for the tips and a red Vice pro for the Blues so there would be no mixing up of balls. Scored 41 with both balls on the front and 41 & 37 on the back giving me an 82 from the tips and a 78 from the blues. I found it comical that my scores had the same 4 stroke differential as the ratings, but I guess that's the way it's supposed to be. It definitely made a difference on some holes where there was 50-70 yards difference. I had birdies with both balls and a double with each also, so I feel it was a pretty good comparison. My typical drive carries around 250 at sea level. For reference, I had a good drive from the blues on #2 and was 30 yds from the center of the green. Anecdotal I know, but thought I'd share anyway.

BT

I played The Frog in a USGA Public Links qualifier several years ago. Two separate 2+ hour lightning delays made for a miserably long 36 hole slog.

From what I remember of that track, the tee rating contrast would probably be most evident on the par 3s and a couple of the par 4s. The back-to-back par 5s (maybe #4 & #5?) were both very reachable, even from the tips. But the other two were definitely set up as 3 shotters. I recall hitting less than driver on several par 4s. There was however, a long par 4 on the back (maybe #12?) that I’d imagine accounts for one of those strokes - really tough hole if you didn’t get your drive to the down slope. I also remember (#1 & #17?) playing pretty tough from the tips. The reference you made to #2 is a great example of a relatively tame hole that probably rates basically the same from any tee.

It’s so weird the stuff you can recollect from a competitive round of golf 5+ years prior. Coming from altitude in Colorado, I also remember having the distinct feeling that we were playing under water.

[RI_Redneck]

On 12/18/2019 at 9:17 PM, downlowkey said:

I played The Frog in a USGA Public Links qualifier several years ago. Two separate 2+ hour lightning delays made for a miserably long 36 hole slog.

From what I remember of that track, the tee rating contrast would probably be most evident on the par 3s and a couple of the par 4s. The back-to-back par 5s (maybe #4 & #5?) were both very reachable, even from the tips. But the other two were definitely set up as 3 shotters. I recall hitting less than driver on several par 4s. There was however, a long par 4 on the back (maybe #12?) that I’d imagine accounts for one of those strokes - really tough hole if you didn’t get your drive to the down slope. I also remember (#1 & #17?) playing pretty tough from the tips. The reference you made to #2 is a great example of a relatively tame hole that probably rates basically the same from any tee.

It’s so weird the stuff you can recollect from a competitive round of golf 5+ years prior. Coming from altitude in Colorado, I also remember having the distinct feeling that we were playing under water.

The par 3s ranged from 30 yds (3,8,16) to 40 yds (11) differential. On #3, I put the shorter tee shot in the left trap. Making a nice sand save and lipping out the birdie putt for the other ball made it a tie. Potential was definitely favoring the long ball though. #1 is 60 yds different and almost 400 from the blue tees. I had a crap first drive from the tips and a good 3w from the blues (avoiding the traps) which left me with about a 4 club difference between the shots. Ended up bogey/par for that hole. #2 was better and I was greenside from the blues which set up a birdie for that hole vs par from the tips. Yeah, both par 5s on the front were similar from either tee. I was green-side in 2 for both (trap on #4). Numbers 6 & 7 hurt me from the front tees because my driver put me in more peril than from the back. #6 was reachable from the blues, but I pulled the tee shot left and it rolled into the trees leaving an awkward chip to just get near the green in two. Tips tee shot was dead center 70 yds out and I put it within 3 ft for a birdies there. #12 is the long par 4 with the creek angling in front of the green. Tee shot isn't bad, but if you happen to pull the approach a bit, you WILL end up with a tough recovery shot. #13 is the long par 5 on the back with an 80 yd differential. I was on in 2 from the blue tees and made an easy birdie. The two doubles I had weren't due to the holes being longer. One was on #9 where I miscalculated and put the approach on the false front and with the spin, it came some 40 yds back down the hill. I then pitched it on the flat area, but apparently still had too much spin and here it came again! The other was on #17. I put my tips tee shot in the left trap and the sand had washed out a bit and the fiber cloth they have underneath was exposed a foot or so in front of the ball. I caught my 5i thin and it embedded in it causing some difficulty as well as a bit of profanity.

The Frog is my go-to course when I'm in Atlanta because it's far enough out of the city that you rarely run into a crowd and last minute tee times are not usually a problem.

BT

Edited December 20, 2019 by RI_Redneck