PING G410 Irons

[fixyurdivot 16,675]

I probably should have started a new thread here after getting the G410's. but will continue the review of the new irons here.

First Impressions/Looks

One thing that PING advertises about the G410's is that they are closer to a "players" club profile than any of their other game improvement irons. This seems to be the holy grail of iron design since so many like what GI irons offer but simply cannot get past the larger profile. Let's face it, hit most any of these new technology irons on the "screws" and they perform.  The challenge for most of us mere mortals is hitting that sweet spot strike after strike.  If a players iron had the forgiveness of a SGI iron, while still maintaining shot shaping capability, it would be the holy grail.  But, like most things in physics, there are limits which restrict that design.  That said, many of the manufacturers continue to strive for that combination... and that's a good thing for us consumers!

Interestingly enough, as compared to my PE2's most all of the newer GI irons (and even some player irons) I've looked at are larger - some appreciably so.  For me personally, I do prefer a more compact look.  Based on the dozen or so GI irons I looked at during my search, they (and the G400's) were the smallest looking , but still larger than what I'd been looking at for over 30 years. Here is a side by side comparison.  And I'll bet many said "dang, would you get a load of the size of those PE2's" when they hit the streets .  I'll bet many newer forged PI's aren't much smaller.

Another claim is that the G410 has 10% less offset and shorter blade length than the G400. 

I held the two up together at Dicks Sports store a couple weeks ago and they look near identical.  I even had my wife tell me if she saw any difference - hope. I'm sure the numbers are there to support the statement, but outwardly, they look the same.  What is cool is that the G410's have increased MOI by 8% while making it smaller than the G400. A higher MOI generally helping the clubs forgiveness on off-center strikes. This is partly achieved by use of tungsten weights in both the toe and hosel, which allows increasing perimeter weighting. "Weight savings are concentrated in the toe and hosel to increase MOI 8%..."

From a top line visual, they look great.  Not an excessive degree of offset and a pretty thin top edge - giving those oh so coveted forged blades a run for their cosmetic money . In the bag they still look like a GI category iron but far from the GMax or Rapture.  The satin "hydroperal 2.0" finish with the contrast milled face is very nice looking IMO.  PING and their users are reporting improved wearability from the original version, which had staining issues. I inquired with PING about the change to the 2.0 finish and they confirmed the change was principally to address issues with version 1.0. The notched neck, while seemingly popular on many newer irons appears odd to me.  I'm not sure if they are purely cosmetic or provide some intended design purpose - lie adjustment for example?  The rear badging in the red and black colors match the G410 woods.  It just dawned on my why PING selected these particular colors.  Even though he does not play their products (although he uses their putter grips), PING's marketing group wasn't about to miss that subliminal message . Much like the G400, this iron employs a co-molded, aluminum and elastomer badge which, in addition to cosmetics, help dampen vibrations.  

Range Testing

As I'm sure with most iron changes, there is some readjustment necessary.  After playing one set for over 30 years, in my case, a BIG adjustment.  I have now had several range sessions going through the full set and using my SC200 to establish data. The results are pretty impressive.  I have gained about 1.3x carry distance on 4i-6i and about 1x on shorter irons. It appears my dispersion is about the same as my PE2's (on good hits) which were always fairly tight.  But, what I do notice is that mishits with the G410's are more forgiving - as advertised.  I'm still hitting more towards the toe than I'd like, so I'm probably not getting everything from the "Core-Eye" design that I could.  A larger spread in flush hits vs. non-flush hits carry distance is the one significant thing I'm noticing with the new irons.  This could prove problematic on the course .  I'm now working on minor swing changes to move that ball strike area towards center.

So really no big surprise in the added carry distances given the difference in lofts - about 5-6 degrees stronger.  I'm not sure how accurate the total distance numbers are on the SC200 and roll-out will be something I'll need to assess out on the course - and especially important on those shots onto the green.

Course Performance

The new irons now have 6 rounds under their belt. The first few were a bit of a struggle - particularly the shorter irons into the green.  I'm seeing more roll out with these than the PE2's and that's no doubt due to the lower trajectory.  I have several well struck shots land on the green and roll off the back with the 6i and 7i.  The PE2's tended to drop like a sack of sand. On the flip side, I had several shots land on the apron area and roll onto the green - something I rarely saw with my old irons.  Where I really had issues was selecting short irons and wedges.  I'd stare at the bag hoping for some divine intervention to help select the club .  As I mentioned earlier, I need to validate what the SC200 is showing for the 9i, PW, UW, and 56/12. I plan to go to one of the ranges real early when no ones there and pace off some shots so I can confirm. 

The Glide 2.0 continues to be the biggest challenge.  I just don't have any confidence with it right now and it has been just going for strolls of late.  I tried it out the sand but find the UW much more consistent. Since I am now finding the 9i to be really similar to my PE2 8i for my bump and run game, I'm questioning whether the 56/12 is ever going to find a place in the bag.  I'm not ready to give up on it yet and, once I know the SC200 numbers are accurate, will spend more range time with it and the other wedges.

...more to come

 

[Bosox04 147]

I hit them, and liked them, but chose Mizuno Hot Metals because of more shaft options without upcharge. 

[Shankster 31,924]

I am going to pass your review along to my dad. He is gaming the G30’s. Probably just fine for him, but they just bought their retirement home in Florida and he will be golfing more. I’m sure he will want an upgrade. Hopefully talk him out of his 20 year old Cleveland wedges too... [emoji848]

Nice work so far!

[Golfspy_CG2 31,902]

Bill to answer your question about how I like the G410 irons which you asked in the PING Long Game testing thread,  Other can find it  By Clicking Here-PING Long Game Gapping Test

I like them just fine.   Do I love them, maybe not.  But it takes a lot for me to fall in love with an iron, or maybe I should say to have a long term relationship with a set. 

They offer great forgiveness, they look nice from the top line and I love the Red/Black scheme.   But the sound is a bit off putting to me.  I felt this in the G400 last year as well.  I realize this is the trade-off you will have when going for the forgiveness of Cast vs Forged.  But I have had the Mizuno Hot Metals before and they felt and sounded a bit different than these. 

I don't hit  them a ton during most rounds, as I only have the 7-P and it as a very short hitter I seem to have a lot of hybrids and FW's into most greens.   

I have just started using Arccos during my last three rounds.  And so far the results from the hybrids and FW's which you can read about in detail in the above link, have been more consistent than the irons

This may just be me, and maybe I need more time with them.  

[fixyurdivot 16,675]

Now with a 1/2 dozen more rounds completed (~15 total), I'm feeling much more confident in yardages.  The span between a decent hit and a flush continues to present challenges, but since like so many of us who hit short way more often than long, I think this may be helping a little. It would have been fun to have had ACCROS data on both the PE2's and these irons to compare on course performance but, at this point, I think the G410's are responsible for maybe a stroke or two better/round.  "Hey Bill, want to pony up $1100 to gain a couple of strokes?"

Yea, so this was a question I kept mulling over going into the club change or not decision.  What are reasonable expectations for a 3 decade upgrade in iron technology?  I'm feel confident in saying my upgrade in driver technology, first to the Callaway Razr-Fit and then to the G410P, has improved scoring by at least 2 strokes/round.  My mid to high 80's scores have shifted into far more low 80's and peeks at 70's.  I've made know wholesale changes in my swing mechanics - other than trying to slow tempo - so I can only attribute the improvement to clubs.

Would I have been better off spending the $$ on lessons?   Based on club changes only, I suspect this quest for improved scoring is an asymptotic model. I would hope that a 30 year jump in iron technology will yield a bit more in scoring - time will tell.  For those of you who change clubs like underwear, how much advantage are you seeing?  

While playing with @Thin2winlast weekend, we discussed my need for a club to cover the 4i to 3w yardages.  The possibility of the G410 2 or 3i crossover.  Anyone hitting these and what are your thoughts?  

 

[golfertrb 1,531]

While playing with [mention=77440]Thin2win[/mention]last weekend, we discussed my need for a club to cover the 4i to 3w yardages.  The possibility of the G410 2 or 3i crossover.  Anyone hitting these and what are your thoughts?  
 


I have the G410 2 Crossover - I ordered it at 40" and 18* with Even Flow Blue at D4. I absolutely love it. It's great off the tee and fairway and is quite forgiving for what it is. It's easy to launch and works with my primary shot (draw) quite well. I can cut it but it draws quite easily. Definitely worth a look. If you have any particular questions - I will do my best to answer them.


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[fixyurdivot 16,675]

19 hours ago, golfertrb said:

I have the G410 2 Crossover - I ordered it at 40" and 18* with Even Flow Blue at D4. I absolutely love it. It's great off the tee and fairway and is quite forgiving for what it is. It's easy to launch and works with my primary shot (draw) quite well. I can cut it but it draws quite easily. Definitely worth a look. If you have any particular questions - I will do my best to answer them.

I've never played hybrid or crossover.  My G410 4i is getting carry yardage close to my PE2 2i.  I'm thinking perhaps the 2 x-over might be the one to get.  I will stop by and discuss with my fitter in Bozeman.  He did have me hit the G410 5w but I wasn't quite ready to add a 3rd wood to my quiver.  I've always liked hitting long irons and do so pretty well, so maybe the x-over would be a good option. Thanks.

[bens197 11,749]

These are very intriguing to me. I’m at a point where I need to seriously consider my bag for the next five years. My next set will not he blades and they’ll trend towards a GI...maybe these.


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[fixyurdivot 16,675]

Well, Maltby lists the G410's as SGI but other sources characterize them as GI.  First and foremost, I was wanting an iron that best matched my swing mechanics - but at the same time I really like a smaller look.  Of the dozen or so irons I considered, these seemed the best in meeting both wants.  I think many folks allow these categories or look to drive buying decisions - and probably to their disadvantage.  For all I know the GMax would work best for me, but like so many, I simply don't like the look.  Just look at the picture of my PE2 compared to these -significant difference.  I most definitely get more forgiveness from the G410's - my range and course numbers confirm it.  

You should definitely include them in a fitting session for comparison but at your handicap, suspect a big handful of blade-like irons might be better (i.e. i500's, i210's, or Z785's).  Good luck with the bag makeover!

[golfertrb 1,531]

19 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I've never played hybrid or crossover.  My G410 4i is getting carry yardage close to my PE2 2i.  I'm thinking perhaps the 2 x-over might be the one to get.  I will stop by and discuss with my fitter in Bozeman.  He did have me hit the G410 5w but I wasn't quite ready to add a 3rd wood to my quiver.  I've always liked hitting long irons and do so pretty well, so maybe the x-over would be a good option. Thanks.

I finally found a hybrid a could play a few years ago (Adams Idea Pro Gold with hM2) but I have always preferred long irons. I have a Adams 5w that I play dependent on the course but the Crossover is my go to club on short par 4's, long par 3's and second shots on par 5's. I look forward to hearing how you get on with it.

[fixyurdivot 16,675]

Just heard back from my fitter.  He does not have the PING hybrids or x-overs.  There is another golf shop in Bozeman and I'll check with them.  His comment on the x-overs is "that they can be a great fit for some players".  I definitely want to hit the 2 and 3 as part of the decision process.  

[golfertrb 1,531]

5 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Just heard back from my fitter.  He does not have the PING hybrids or x-overs.  There is another golf shop in Bozeman and I'll check with them.  His comment on the x-overs is "that they can be a great fit for some players".  I definitely want to hit the 2 and 3 as part of the decision process.  

I'm sure that's true. The one thing that is interesting is that there is more than just numbers. That's not to say that numbers are irrelevant because that's not what I believe at all. It's just that how you feel about a club or the confidence it inspires or not makes a difference in terms of your success or failure with that club. So if you like the Crossover better than the Hybrid and the performance differences are not drastically in favor of the hybrid perhaps the Crossover gets the nod. You won't know until you hit them. I went with the thought that I would get the 3 Crossover but after hitting it compared to the 2 Crossover it was an easy decision and it has been just an incredible club but YMMV. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts after you hit them. 

[fixyurdivot 16,675]

The irons are feeling better and better with each round played.  I think the added 1/2" length (now playing +1") was the right choice though it may have taken me a little time to adjust to them. My fitter suggested that to reduce my toe side of center strike tendency.  Based on my ball marks, that appears to be working.  Still a whisker toe side of center, but I like the ball flights and shots feel very solid.  

I'm really looking forward to the forthcoming G410 iron testers reviews and shaft choices.

 

[Rickp 28,769]

I probably should have started a new thread here after getting the G410's. but will continue the review of the new irons here.
[/url] First Impressions/Looks
One thing that PING advertises about the G410's is that they are closer to a "players" club profile than any of their other game improvement irons. This seems to be the holy grail of iron design since so many like what GI irons offer but simply cannot get past the larger profile. Let's face it, hit most any of these new technology irons on the "screws" and they perform.  The challenge for most of us mere mortals is hitting that sweet spot strike after strike.  If a players iron had the forgiveness of a SGI iron, while still maintaining shot shaping capability, it would be the holy grail.  But, like most things in physics, there are limits which restrict that design.  That said, many of the manufacturers continue to strive for that combination... and that's a good thing for us consumers!
Interestingly enough, as compared to my PE2's most all of the newer GI irons (and even some player irons) I've looked at are larger - some appreciably so.  For me personally, I do prefer a more compact look.  Based on the dozen or so GI irons I looked at during my search, they (and the G400's) were the smallest looking , but still larger than what I'd been looking at for over 30 years. Here is a side by side comparison.  And I'll bet many said "dang, would you get a load of the size of those PE2's" when they hit the streets [emoji3].  I'll bet many newer forged PI's aren't much smaller.




Another claim is that the G410 has 10% less offset and shorter blade length than the G400. 

I held the two up together at Dicks Sports store a couple weeks ago and they look near identical.  I even had my wife tell me if she saw any difference - hope. I'm sure the numbers are there to support the statement, but outwardly, they look the same.  What is cool is that the G410's have increased MOI by 8% while making it smaller than the G400. A higher MOI generally helping the clubs forgiveness on off-center strikes. This is partly achieved by use of tungsten weights in both the toe and hosel, which allows increasing perimeter weighting. "Weight savings are concentrated in the toe and hosel to increase MOI 8%..."
From a top line visual, they look great.  Not an excessive degree of offset and a pretty thin top edge - giving those oh so coveted forged blades a run for their cosmetic money [emoji6]. In the bag they still look like a GI category iron but far from the GMax or Rapture.  The satin "hydroperal 2.0" finish with the contrast milled face is very nice looking IMO.  PING and their users are reporting improved wearability from the original version, which had staining issues. I inquired with PING about the change to the 2.0 finish and they confirmed the change was principally to address issues with version 1.0. The notched neck, while seemingly popular on many newer irons appears odd to me.  I'm not sure if they are purely cosmetic or provide some intended design purpose - lie adjustment for example?  The rear badging in the red and black colors match the G410 woods.  It just dawned on my why PING selected these particular colors.  Even though he does not play their products (although he uses their putter grips), PING's marketing group wasn't about to miss that subliminal message [emoji3]. Much like the G400, this iron employs a co-molded, aluminum and elastomer badge which, in addition to cosmetics, help dampen vibrations.  

Range Testing
As I'm sure with most iron changes, there is some readjustment necessary.  After playing one set for over 30 years, in my case, a BIG adjustment.  I have now had several range sessions going through the full set and using my SC200 to establish data. The results are pretty impressive.  I have gained about 1.3x carry distance on 4i-6i and about 1x on shorter irons. It appears my dispersion is about the same as my PE2's (on good hits) which were always fairly tight.  But, what I do notice is that mishits with the G410's are more forgiving - as advertised.  I'm still hitting more towards the toe than I'd like, so I'm probably not getting everything from the "Core-Eye" design that I could.  A larger spread in flush hits vs. non-flush hits carry distance is the one significant thing I'm noticing with the new irons.  This could prove problematic on the course [emoji33].  I'm now working on minor swing changes to move that ball strike area towards center.
So really no big surprise in the added carry distances given the difference in lofts - about 5-6 degrees stronger.  I'm not sure how accurate the total distance numbers are on the SC200 and roll-out will be something I'll need to assess out on the course - and especially important on those shots onto the green.
Course Performance
The new irons now have 6 rounds under their belt. The first few were a bit of a struggle - particularly the shorter irons into the green.  I'm seeing more roll out with these than the PE2's and that's no doubt due to the lower trajectory.  I have several well struck shots land on the green and roll off the back with the 6i and 7i.  The PE2's tended to drop like a sack of sand. On the flip side, I had several shots land on the apron area and roll onto the green - something I rarely saw with my old irons.  Where I really had issues was selecting short irons and wedges.  I'd stare at the bag hoping for some divine intervention to help select the club [emoji848].  As I mentioned earlier, I need to validate what the SC200 is showing for the 9i, PW, UW, and 56/12. I plan to go to one of the ranges real early when no ones there and pace off some shots so I can confirm. 
The Glide 2.0 continues to be the biggest challenge.  I just don't have any confidence with it right now and it has been just going for strolls of late.  I tried it out the sand but find the UW much more consistent. Since I am now finding the 9i to be really similar to my PE2 8i for my bump and run game, I'm questioning whether the 56/12 is ever going to find a place in the bag.  I'm not ready to give up on it yet and, once I know the SC200 numbers are accurate, will spend more range time with it and the other wedges.
...more to come
 

Good job on the review [emoji106]


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[BMart519 1,387]

Had my iron fitting yesterday and went with the G410 with Modus 105 stiff. Biggest surprise was the Apex Forged had equal distance with slightly better dispersion. I wasn't willing to pay the extra $400 canadian for the callaways. The G410 gave better launch and spin numbers than the 585s, M5, and Hot Metal irons but were near identical to the Apex with Elevate shafts. 

[fixyurdivot 16,675]

11 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Had my iron fitting yesterday and went with the G410 with Modus 105 stiff. Biggest surprise was the Apex Forged had equal distance with slightly better dispersion. I wasn't willing to pay the extra $400 canadian for the callaways. The G410 gave better launch and spin numbers than the 585s, M5, and Hot Metal irons but were near identical to the Apex with Elevate shafts. 

Did you get some side by side comparison data that you can share?  It's always interesting to see the numbers.  I shared my data from two iron fitting sessions as I had yet to make a decision and was asking the forum their thoughts.  I too tested the Mizuno Hot Metals and, had it not been for my 30+ year marriage with the PE2's, very likely would have chosen them.  One additional factor that made the decision was PING's fantastic customer service; mine and many, many others who have written about that.  Mizuno may have equal or better service, but I went with what I know.  Please keep us posted on how the G410's are playing.

[TMay23 9]

Thanks for the review update. I also have been playing PE2s for 30 years. Committed to playing more this year, I picked up a lightly used set of G irons in the spring but ended up going back to the PE2s after a month. I like to look of the 410s, hoping to get picked as a tester ; )

[BMart519 1,387]

8 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Did you get some side by side comparison data that you can share?  It's always interesting to see the numbers.  I shared my data from two iron fitting sessions as I had yet to make a decision and was asking the forum their thoughts.  I too tested the Mizuno Hot Metals and, had it not been for my 30+ year marriage with the PE2's, very likely would have chosen them.  One additional factor that made the decision was PING's fantastic customer service; mine and many, many others who have written about that.  Mizuno may have equal or better service, but I went with what I know.  Please keep us posted on how the G410's are playing.

I didn’t get electronic copies of the flight scope data unfortunately. I believe my descent angle was around 47 degrees and spin around 6000 rpm with both the g410 and apex. There were a few clubs that got pulled right away due to low spin and or poor angles like the m5 and 585. The hot metal was also spinning closer to 5000 which were tried with the modus and kbs. The g410 and apex were hitting the highest windows with the apex being longest with the mixing and ping a couple yards behind. Hit metal was a bit lower, m5 and 585 were lowest launching. The modus 105 gave higher launch than the AWT shaft which is pretty common. All shafts were stiff flex. My club head speed was between 81-83 mph and I tend to deliver the club a bit steep, so the high launch was one of the main things I was looking for in addition to a knockdown being the most comfortable shot shape for me to play. I picked up 5-10 yards vs my 8 year old cobra s3 irons which were very similar lofts. 

Would be great to be chosen for the official iron testing as I have 2 years of shot scope data to compare with my current clubs and know the irons are a good fit after demoing over 10 competitors. Could probably still get the info to ping so I wouldn’t have to pay for my set... 

[BMart519 1,387]

Initial Feedback - clubs arrived in Canada from PING after 1 week which was great as I was itching to get them. If I had to wait 2-3 weeks the fitters quoted me, it would have been torture. Currently finishing some renos around the house and it is being listed for sale so I haven't been out as much as I would like. 

ON THE RANGE

First day I had them took them to the local range to hit a half bucket to try and figure out my distances. Looked a bit bigger than I remember at address or at least compared to my old Cobra S3. After I warmed up with some easy 9 irons I worked through most of the set to see where my ball flight transitioned from a pull or draw to fade which was the 7 iron. Coincidentally I found the 4-7 irons to feel harder than the 8-UW. Distances seemed pretty similar to my 8 year old irons which was a bit disappointing but i was hitting the ball a bit fat and the priority for getting fit was improving my dispersion anyway. 

I worked through the 9 ball test using my 7 iron and was glad to see flighting and shaping the ball was working with what seemed like larger heads. 

ON THE COURSE

A couple days later and I am able to sneak in a quick 9 on the executive course (no par 5s) near my place. I play this course 10+ times per year and use it as my equipment testing and practice track. Couldn't have gotten off to a better start: nail a 220 yard 4 iron off the tee leaving me a 90 yard gap wedge. Stuck the gap wedge to 12 feet and got 6 feet of backspin (using Srixon Z star) to hole high which is unheard of for me. Looks like the higher launch of the Modus shafts is working... Roll the birdie putt about 6 inches low of the hole for tap in par. This would be a recurring theme of the day as I missed 3 birdie putts each by about 6" - 2 low side, 1 just left short. 

I shot +1 through the first 5 holes and finish with a +4 (36) which ties my second lowest round ever on this 9 with 5/9 GIR (season average is 38%) including a short par 4 which I drove the green playing a fade around trees in the fairway (so the G410s can't get all the credit). Of the 4 missed greens; one was 2 feet short of the fringe in the rough and another just rolled off the back of a par 3 - unfortunately into a trap and now short sided... Each of those shots were about 2-3 yards from being GIRs. More importantly, my average proximity on all approach shots was 37 feet which is probably half my usual average (based on shot scope data) and included 4i, 5i, 6i, 7i, 3x UW, LW (Glide 2.0) and 1 Driver (!) shots. My longest putt was from 50 feet which I rolled 4' past but made the come-backer for par. 

(I also put my new Cleveland Huntington Beach SOFT #6 in play for the first time... So the only clubs I used this round that I ever played before was Driver and LW. Also, was experiment with the Z star vs the XV as I have not played the XV before and love the Z)

Needless to say I was thrilled with the performance and can't wait to get these out a few more times before the snow flies up here in Calgary. Overall, it wasn't my best ball striking day with irons and couldn't get up/down to save my life. I sliced a 5i into the trees of the tee which cost me a double bogey with a terrible 3 putt. I hit the 4 iron thin on 2 tee shots, 1 of which still resulted in a GIR on a 200 yard par 3 and fatted 1 approach with the UW which I then failed to get up and down. On the course with proper balls the new sticks seemed to give me approx 1/2 club more distance but the accuracy and forgiveness improvements are huge. 

I'm already about to book my driver fitting at the same place to see how the Epic Flash, G410, and F9 stack up and try to realize some similar gains. I will be a bit more frugal with those and see what stock shaft/head combo work best for me and pick it up used next year. 

[Jbhollon 1]

i hit these in the store when i was looking for some replacements to my Callaway XRs.  They hit nice, but they seemed huge in comparison to the XRs.  I just couldn't get past how large they looked.  in the end, i have held off for now.  the 410s went like rockets, but my small brain couldn't get comfortable with the size....nice clubs though. 

 

great review BTW.