2019 College Football

[Mr. 82]

15 minutes ago, Undershooter said:

Please show me the team that schedules all P5 games.

 

You really aren't helping yourself choosing Florida and Auburn's schedule. Florida only played two G5 games this year. Auburn played 3 and still managed to have one of the 3 toughest schedules in the country this year...

Again, these are just examples. 

It doesn't matter who the team is!!!!

Playing glorified scrimmages against colleges that have players who could literally get killed matching up against an SEC or ACC football team is not healthy for college football.  You've got 3 or 4 MEANINGLESS scrimmages a year that do nothing for the sport, or for either school, except make the larger school feel good about themselves and prop up their record for pollsters.  All of these games should have asterisks next to the results, and not be counted as either a win or a loss by either school.

[MaxEntropy]

24 minutes ago, GSwag said:

change the academic excellence of a university, or improve the value of a diploma for graduating students from said university?  I hardly think so.

In general, I agree with you, but with demand exceeding supply at places like Ohio State - in part because of the football program - they can and are pickier about who they accept, which, I would contend, makes many of their degree programs more competitive, resulting in higher quality graduates. Since football programs ebb and flow, I suspect any improvements in academics is not sustainable. Besides, the quality of education is largely capped by the quality of professors' teaching abilities and many of them do not go to state schools to teach - they are there for research and teaching is more of a burden.

[Mr. 82]

1 minute ago, MaxEntropy said:

In general, I agree with you, but with demand exceeding supply at places like Ohio State - in part because of the football program - they can and are pickier about who they accept, which, I would contend, makes many of their degree programs more competitive, resulting in higher quality graduates. Since football programs ebb and flow, I suspect any improvements in academics is not sustainable. Besides, the quality of education is largely capped by the quality of professors' teaching abilities and many of them do not go to state schools to teach - they are there for research and teaching is more of a burden.

I would argue also that academic standards have been watered down, even at elite universities, due to how students are graded in high school.  There is so much pressure for these kids to get into a good college, that parental pressure on high school teachers and administrators, making sure that their "baby" gets all A's means that teachers and administrators feel pressured into lowering the standard of what constitutes an A, or a B.  We've seen this pressure recently in the pay for enrollment scandal with Lori Loughlin and Felicity Huffman.  Parents are so desperate to get their children into a good school that they'll drop $500k just to do it.

So whether it's just perception, or whatever, admissions standards are so ridiculously high at elite schools like OSU that most students don't even bother applying.  That was an actual quote from the SI article linked to in this thread yesterday, where students at Florida were saying that the academic standards have really increased recently, mostly because there are so many kids wanting to go to school there.  Which ultimately begs the question, is it the academic standards driving the demand for that school, or is it the public face of the athletics programs driving things, with the school spirit being a big part of why students go to these schools?

Ultimately it's a hard question to answer, but having gone to college at a school that didn't even have a football program (at the time - Florida International University in Miami), as a college student my concern wasn't about athletics, or what the school offered outside of classes.  I was interested in getting an education that I could use to get a decent job.  My poor decisions regarding majors, et al ultimately ended up getting a degree that isn't worth the paper it's printed on (Communications degrees are completely worthless FYI), but I did walk out of college without any debt, and I'm not spending the rest of my life trying to pay off my education.

Everyone makes different decisions about colleges for themselves and their children, but frankly, I have yet to hear of a University of Alabama graduate that did anything remarkable in the public square.  I'm not even sure what an Alabama degree is worth to be honest.  Sure, it's a football factory, but academically, it's not going to be challenging an Ivy League school in that regard anytime soon, and ultimately that is the bigger question.  Are these universities athletics factories for future pro prospects, or are they institutions of higher learning?

[Undershooter]

5 minutes ago, GSwag said:

Again, these are just examples. 

It doesn't matter who the team is!!!!

Playing glorified scrimmages against colleges that have players who could literally get killed matching up against an SEC or ACC football team is not healthy for college football.  You've got 3 or 4 MEANINGLESS scrimmages a year that do nothing for the sport, or for either school, except make the larger school feel good about themselves and prop up their record for pollsters.  All of these games should have asterisks next to the results, and not be counted as either a win or a loss by either school.

Holy overreaction, Batman! haha

Nobody is getting killed. These aren't junior high kids vs NFL athletes. It's G5 vs P5 and there are plenty of G5 teams that are better than P5 teams. 

 

Saying the SEC is the only one to schedule G5 schools is completely 100% false. There isn't a team or league for that matter that won't play G5 schools.

 

You are looking at the this completely wrong. G5 schools are the ones who have everything to gain with matchups vs P5 teams. G5 schools get paid tons of money to go play at P5 schools. This money helps them with their recruiting budget, facilities and anything of that nature. If the P5 schools schedules a home/home series instead, then it's the same thing for the G5 school. A game with a revenue increase. G5 teams also are expected to lose these game for the most part. So when they play a close game, or win one, their recruiting gets a bump and they they can say that beat _______ for the next couple of years.

[Mr. 82]

1 minute ago, Undershooter said:

Holy overreaction, Batman! haha

Nobody is getting killed. These aren't junior high kids vs NFL athletes. It's G5 vs P5 and there are plenty of G5 teams that are better than P5 teams. 

 

Saying the SEC is the only one to schedule G5 schools is completely 100% false. There isn't a team or league for that matter that won't play G5 schools.

 

You are looking at the this completely wrong. G5 schools are the ones who have everything to gain with matchups vs P5 teams. G5 schools get paid tons of money to go play at P5 schools. This money helps them with their recruiting budget, facilities and anything of that nature. If the P5 schools schedules a home/home series instead, then it's the same thing for the G5 school. A game with a revenue increase. G5 teams also are expected to lose these game for the most part. So when they play a close game, or win one, their recruiting gets a bump and they they can say that beat _______ for the next couple of years.

So what you are saying essentially is that it's all about money and nothing else.  And that to me epitomizes everything that is wrong with college athletics.

[Undershooter]

1 minute ago, GSwag said:

So what you are saying essentially is that it's all about money and nothing else.  And that to me epitomizes everything that is wrong with college athletics.

Yep, welcome to capitalism. You mentioned it yourself in your discussion with Maxentropy.

[MaxEntropy]

2 minutes ago, GSwag said:

Ultimately it's a hard question to answer, but having gone to college at a school that didn't even have a football program (at the time - Florida International University in Miami), as a college student my concern wasn't about athletics, or what the school offered outside of classes.  I was interested in getting an education that I could use to get a decent job.

That whole post is good and I agree with many of your takes and would add that, in the case of my kids, all the pressure to succeed was self-imposed. My wife and I did not have to try to motivate them - all we ever asked was that they were making their best effort. Being at a good, competitive high school motivated them. We also did not make our kids apply to any particular college and where they ended up became an issue of budget more than anything since my wife and I promised to get them through undergraduate school debt-free. Ohio State was not our oldest daughter's first choice, but I was unemployed most of the year she graduated from high school and her first choice was too rich for our blood at that time.

I went to undergraduate school at Gonzaga - no football team and the basketball team had not yet become a thing (so the argument could be made there was no bump in notoriety due to any athletics). Also, it was a small school, where almost no research was done so professors were there specifically to teach. They wanted to teach, cared about the students, and were generally good at teaching.

Then I went to University of Missouri for grad school - those that taught graduate classes were pretty good, but I would contend part of that was simply due to the advanced nature of the courses and the fact that relationships between faculty and students were established due to class size and everyone being in the same building all day, every day. Many of them sucked at teaching undergraduates and really didn't have an interest since they were there to do funded research.

Now that we have deviated from the topic entirely, we can get back to talking football.

 

[gobama84]

41 minutes ago, Undershooter said:

Yep, welcome to capitalism. You mentioned it yourself in your discussion with Maxentropy.

I found this interesting.

Demographics

Of the 38,103 undergraduate, professional and graduate students enrolled at UA in the fall semester of 2019,

• 39.7% come from Alabama
• 56.5% come from elsewhere in the United States
• 3.8% are international students from 76 countries
• 56.4% are women
• 43.5% are men

 

[gobama84]

53 minutes ago, GSwag said:

I have yet to hear of a University of Alabama graduate that did anything remarkable in the public square.  I'm not even sure what an Alabama degree is worth to be honest.

For your viewing pleasure.

UA by the Numbers

And then there is Condelisa Rice.

[Undershooter]

6 minutes ago, gobama84 said:

I found this interesting.

Demographics

Of the 38,103 undergraduate, professional and graduate students enrolled at UA in the fall semester of 2019,

• 39.7% come from Alabama
• 56.5% come from elsewhere in the United States
• 3.8% are international students from 76 countries
• 56.4% are women
• 43.5% are men

 

UA gets a ton of students from Chicago for some reason. Same for Atlanta, but that one makes more sense.

[sixcat]

Out-of-state tuition for many southern schools is often significantly cheaper than in-state tuition at many northern schools.  It's not a slight, just a fact.

Virginia Tech's current geographical diversity suggests 23% of the current student body is from New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania or Maryland.  The majority of my wife and I's friends at VT were from those states.  They all came to VT for slightly better weather and significantly lower tuition costs.

[J.B. TexasEx]

5 hours ago, GSwag said:

Again, these are just examples. 

It doesn't matter who the team is!!!!

Playing glorified scrimmages against colleges that have players who could literally get killed matching up against an SEC or ACC football team is not healthy for college football.  You've got 3 or 4 MEANINGLESS scrimmages a year that do nothing for the sport, or for either school, except make the larger school feel good about themselves and prop up their record for pollsters.  All of these games should have asterisks next to the results, and not be counted as either a win or a loss by either school.

The AP, coaches poll, an other influences - looking at you ESPN - give lip service to strength-of-schedule. Until teams are penalized objectively for soft OOC schedules, they'll continue to fill-in 4 slots with cupcakes. Yes, it puts the Big 12, Pac 12 and B1G at a BIG disadvantage playing 9 conference games.

Most every P5 team you can name is much stronger and deeper than the Western Carolinas, Lamars, and Tarleton States of the world. 

[J.B. TexasEx]

Impact on LSU if Odell Beckham Jr. Handed Out Real Money

[fixyurdivot]

Beckham doing something stupid and emphasizing his narcissist character... who'd have thunk it .  If he's got a beef with the system (the same one who afforded him the opportunity to secure a $90M contract) he should use some of his nest egg to file suit against the NCAA - as opposed to grandstanding during the LSU players celebration.

[Undershooter]

48 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Beckham doing something stupid and emphasizing his narcissist character... who'd have thunk it .  If he's got a beef with the system (the same one who afforded him the opportunity to secure a $90M contract) he should use some of his nest egg to file suit against the NCAA - as opposed to grandstanding during the LSU players celebration.

Nothing will happen to LSU over it. If they can get through that children's hospital crap unscathed, then I'm sure this will blow over quickly. Their administration has plenty of NCAA ties.

 

The "it was fake money" and the "they are all no longer student athletes bc they are leaving for the draft" excuses were hilarious though. I did get quite a chuckle out of those!

[sixcat]

Now, lets see how the social media rumor-mill negatively affects the program in the short term.  The truth is, Fuente turned Baylor down for a meeting so, Baylor flew to Blacksburg in an attempt to change his mind.  Local flight logs appear to verify that to be true. 

Winnings cures everything so, the new staff can make it go away very quickly by doing just that.  Lots of new faces on that coaching staff.  We will see how it all unfolds. 

[txgolfjunkie]

Some coaches, and their agents, will put stuff in the media to get their coach some attention for either a raise from the current school or a new school. Was their interest from the Baylor side in all of this? Yes. Was Fuente the top choice? I don't believe so. I don't know if Fuente knew he wasn't the top choice so he posted this to save face. The VT fan boards were excited to see Fuente potentially leave but his name didn't spark excitement with the Baylor fan base. I have no idea the real story because according to Baylor pay sites, folks who live in Waco, have plenty of sources on the inside, etc. still haven't heard much in regards to the top candidate(s). 

There have been some bigger names floated on the pay sites along with Fuente, Napier, Aranda (DC at LSU) and McGuire. 

I think Napier is stringing Baylor along. I really do think he's waiting for a SEC HC spot to open up. 

I think Aranda and McGuire are probably the most realistic choices at this point. Or some bigger fish that emerges. The Baylor AD has been exceptionally good at keeping this hiring process a secret. And just for some background, Matt Rhule wasn't even mentioned as a candidate until the day he was hired at Baylor. The AD has also made some exceptional hires in other sports so I know he will find the right guy for the job...and money won't be an issue (see Rhule's salary). 

[sixcat]

5 minutes ago, txgolfjunkie said:

Some coaches, and their agents, will put stuff in the media to get their coach some attention for either a raise from the current school or a new school. Was their interest from the Baylor side in all of this? Yes. Was Fuente the top choice? I don't believe so. I don't know if Fuente knew he wasn't the top choice so he posted this to save face. The VT fan boards were excited to see Fuente potentially leave but his name didn't spark excitement with the Baylor fan base. I have no idea the real story because according to Baylor pay sites, folks who live in Waco, have plenty of sources on the inside, etc. still haven't heard much in regards to the top candidate(s). 

There have been some bigger names floated on the pay sites along with Fuente, Napier, Aranda (DC at LSU) and McGuire. 

I think Napier is stringing Baylor along. I really do think he's waiting for a SEC HC spot to open up. 

I think Aranda and McGuire are probably the most realistic choices at this point. Or some bigger fish that emerges. The Baylor AD has been exceptionally good at keeping this hiring process a secret. And just for some background, Matt Rhule wasn't even mentioned as a candidate until the day he was hired at Baylor. The AD has also made some exceptional hires in other sports so I know he will find the right guy for the job...and money won't be an issue (see Rhule's salary). 

I agree, I don't believe Fuente was ever the "top choice" and he isn't getting a raise from VT following 6-7 and 8-5 seasons.  And with an almost entirely new coaching staff under him following the retirement of Bud Foster and Charlie Wyles, the new guys aren't getting raises either.  Of the 18 on-field coaches on staff, 13 have never coached a game in Blacksburg.  The VT fan boards will eat their own young.  Most want to see Shane Beamer as the head coach.  Hometown hero, son of a legend, last name "Beamer" etc.  Not sure that was ever a real consideration.  

I don't buy into the message board chatter.  My wife has personal and professional ties inside VT athletics as well as administration.  Her professional email address ends with @VT.edu!  So, I knew a lot of what was being rumored was complete BS.  Good luck on finding the right fit for Baylor!

[Undershooter]

An arrest warrant has been put out for OBJ for slapping a cop on the ass after the NC game lol

Looks to be for simple battery

[gobama84]

21 hours ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

Yes, it puts the Big 12, Pac 12 and B1G at a BIG disadvantage playing 9 conference games.

As you have noticed (I hope), you have not been getting many replies here.  (Must be a reason).

But, I just couldn't let this fly.

When the Big 12, Pac 12, and B1G play 9 conference games, the bottom of these conference is the same level of talent as other conferences playing G5 schools and that is just too funny to let pass.

[sixcat]

29 minutes ago, Undershooter said:

An arrest warrant has been put out for OBJ for slapping a cop on the ass after the NC game lol

Looks to be for simple battery

Sounds like a cop wants to pad his pension a bit!

[Kor.A.Door]

I don’t look at conference records for the bowl games. I just want to see good football games and I Don’t really care who wins at that point. I thought Michigan played a great game against Alabama, it was a well played game, and if Patterson could have made the throws on a couple of those overthrows the final score would have been closer, not saying Mich would’ve won, but it would have been closer. I think there were other games vs SEC teams that very good close games as well. They were 9-2 but could have been 6-5. I just want competitive bowl games. Who wants to watch 35-0 in a bowl game

[J.B. TexasEx]

38 minutes ago, gobama84 said:

As you have noticed (I hope), you have not been getting many replies here.  (Must be a reason).

But, I just couldn't let this fly.

When the Big 12, Pac 12, and B1G play 9 conference games, the bottom of these conference is the same level of talent as other conferences playing G5 schools and that is just too funny to let pass.

No offense, but I didn't miss you, Bud, or Sixcat.

The SEC's mid-to-bottom isn't any better than the other four P5 conferences. But, go on believing what the shills at ESPN feed you.

[J.B. TexasEx]

1 hour ago, Kor.A.Door said:

I don’t look at conference records for the bowl games. I just want to see good football games and I Don’t really care who wins at that point. I thought Michigan played a great game against Alabama, it was a well played game, and if Patterson could have made the throws on a couple of those overthrows the final score would have been closer, not saying Mich would’ve won, but it would have been closer. I think there were other games vs SEC teams that very good close games as well. They were 9-2 but could have been 6-5. I just want competitive bowl games. Who wants to watch 35-0 in a bowl game

Exactly

And to your and @GSwag 's point, who wants to watch - let alone pay to attend - guaranteed blow outs versus FCS cupcakes or lesser G5 teams? Personally, I'm not going to argue "who has the best conference" because there's no way to measure it objectively. Every P5 league has good, middling, and bad teams. One year, ESPN is touting a conference's bowl record and the next they're saying it "doesn't matter". Whatever fits their narrative at the time.

Having said that, perhaps Sagarin does the best job with analytics and ratings? http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm

[Undershooter]

According to the Sagarin rankings, the SEC has the best conference and it's not particularly close. 3 of the top 5, 4 of the top 10, 6 of the top 20, 8 of the top 40, and 12 of the top 60 are SEC teams.

 

There is also a FCS team at 31 and 6 of the top 30 teams are G5 teams...

[Kor.A.Door]

5 minutes ago, Undershooter said:

According to the Sagarin rankings, the SEC has the best conference and it's not particularly close. 3 of the top 5, 4 of the top 10, 6 of the top 20, 8 of the top 40, and 12 of the top 60 are SEC teams.

 

There is also a FCS team at 31 and 6 of the top 30 teams are G5 teams...

The SEC had a really good season this year, and we’re the best. Particularly the top 3 in the conference. They were very good. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Tua was healthy. That could have been interesting. I really don’t care who plays who, I just want to see good football. Like the Clemson vs Ohio State, and also Clemson vs. LSU. LSU was just the better team, they were all season and they deserved the win. You could see in the second half. Clemson just didn’t have enough. They played well, just got beat by a better overall team

[txgolfjunkie]

Baylor takes away LSU top assistants. Rhule takes Brady to Charlotte and then we name Aranda head coach. Talk of Aranda bringing over the safeties coach to be our DC and grabbing Utah‘s OC for the same position


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Undershooter]

44 minutes ago, Kor.A.Door said:

The SEC had a really good season this year, and we’re the best. Particularly the top 3 in the conference. They were very good. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Tua was healthy. That could have been interesting. I really don’t care who plays who, I just want to see good football. Like the Clemson vs Ohio State, and also Clemson vs. LSU. LSU was just the better team, they were all season and they deserved the win. You could see in the second half. Clemson just didn’t have enough. They played well, just got beat by a better overall team

I agree. I also agree with your earlier point that bowl records are meaningless. You don't know which teams are motivated, which teams coaches are leaves, plus players might not play to prep for the draft. There's a lot of variables in there. Plus you aren't always matching up equal teams. Such as a conference's 2 vs another's 2 for example.

 

Back to Clemson. To me, Clemson is such a wildcard every year. You know they are great but it's impossible to know just how great they are going into the playoffs. Because they only play 2 or 3 decent or good teams a year, you don't really know how they'll react to adversity or to an equal/better opponent. 

[Undershooter]

7 minutes ago, txgolfjunkie said:

Baylor takes away LSU top assistants. Rhule takes Brady to Charlotte and then we name Aranda head coach. Talk of Aranda bringing over the safeties coach to be our DC and grabbing Utah‘s OC for the same position


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

You like the hire? He gonna keep McGuire? 

[J.B. TexasEx]

1 hour ago, Kor.A.Door said:

The SEC had a really good season this year, and we’re the best. Particularly the top 3 in the conference. They were very good. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Tua was healthy. That could have been interesting. I really don’t care who plays who, I just want to see good football. Like the Clemson vs Ohio State, and also Clemson vs. LSU. LSU was just the better team, they were all season and they deserved the win. You could see in the second half. Clemson just didn’t have enough. They played well, just got beat by a better overall team

Agreed - this year - and you can certainly make the argument that Bama was the 4th best team and worthy of a playoff spot. I just want good, competitive games, too. I understand why everybody schedules at least one bye week, though. Ours was LaTech.