2019 Official Forum Member Review-Putt Out Golf Practice System

[Kanoito]

1 hour ago, BMart519 said:

I vaccuumed mine and it seemed to help make it appear like there was less groove. Putt Out seems to recommend rolling it back up and putting it in the tube. I always leave mine laid out on my cork floor in the basement. 

The other option is to move the hole left and right of the center line which will also add difficulty and help prove if you'lining up as well as you think with less lines to help. 

I roll mine up after every practice session (or the kids will end up playing on it) and the groove is still there.

[HardcoreLooper]

On 7/15/2019 at 7:58 PM, yungkory said:

Anyone have any plush carpet they can test the mat on? I don't have a long enough hard surface in my house so if I were to buy one, I'd have to put it on the carpet and we got some pretty plush stuff with soft padding underneath.

I have it on a fairly firm oriental rug.  Doesn't seem to be an issue, but nothing like plush carpet.

 

7 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Putt Out seems to recommend rolling it back up and putting it in the tube. I always leave mine laid out on my cork floor in the basement. 

I did not know that.  I will start rolling mine up every night.  My wife will probably appreciate that.

[HardcoreLooper]

6 hours ago, Kanoito said:

I roll mine up after every practice session (or the kids will end up playing on it) and the groove is still there.

That's no bueno.  I'll still try it and report back.

The mat definitely wrinkles when Allie steps on it.  If I pull the right edge taut, it's fine.  Tomorrow night, I'll try with a book.  So far, I'm loving the target and the mirror, but I can't see spending $90 on a mat that develops a groove in two weeks.

[tommc23]

Well I was wondering why I was having issues with following the routine on the package and it's because of my path. Wow I knew it was off but my goodness I started to use the mirror and the gates and couldn't do crap. This review may end up in my revamping my whole putting stroke.

[tommc23]

22 minutes ago, tommc23 said:

Well I was wondering why I was having issues with following the routine on the package and it's because of my path. Wow I knew it was off but my goodness I started to use the mirror and the gates and couldn't do crap. This review may end up in my revamping my whole putting stroke.

The good part is I think I found an old putting stroke I used a year or two ago that got me rolling it better than I have in a while. That meant I actually hit the micro target and didn't hit any gates. After 30 minutes of using that stroke I was able to stop thinking about it so much. Gonna take this to work on my 48 and hope that the stroke is consistent after 12 hours of not practicing it.

[cksurfdude]

On 7/16/2019 at 1:30 PM, Kanoito said:

I roll mine up after every practice session (or the kids will end up playing on it) and the groove is still there.

Do they suggest brushing it, ie. against the grain of the fibers to raise them back up?

Just fyi, with a Birdie Ball you can brush it "down" (= faster) or "up" (= slower).

[fixyurdivot]

On 7/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, GolfSpy STUDque said:

I'm really curious about the speed of the mat and how it translates to grass. Every single putting mat I've ever had was lightning fast then I'm leaving everything short on the course. 

+1.  We had one in our "think tank/war room" at work and it was a astro-turf like product that rolled pretty true but like a billiard table.

[HardcoreLooper]

12 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

Do they suggest brushing it, ie. against the grain of the fibers to raise them back up?

Just fyi, with a Birdie Ball you can brush it "down" (= faster) or "up" (= slower).

We have a fairly large BirdieBall mat at one of our two First Tee locations, and it's very nice. 

[yungkory]

I bought a BirdieBall 2 years ago and it was so fast compared to the greens I play here, it was useless. That's why I was interested in having a PuttOut mat on my carpet, because I read that might cause it to roll slower. However, the reviews saying it forms a groove turned me off to it. Hopefully at the end of your reviews, I'll have a good idea of whether or not I should grab one!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Kanoito]

Has anyone tried contacting them yet about the grooves? I sent an email but no response so far.

[Peaksy68]

On 7/10/2019 at 8:58 AM, GolfSpy STUDque said:

I'm really curious about the speed of the mat and how it translates to grass. Every single putting mat I've ever had was lightning fast then I'm leaving everything short on the course. 

Also curious about the friction. Past mats were carpet-like so my putter smoothly slid back and forward on them even if pressed down. As we all know, grass is not slick like that so I'd run into issues where I've engrained a stroke that wants me to drag the putter along the ground only to be met by the harsh reality of a "chunked putt".  

 

 

Comments on either of these areas would be appreciated. 

I've got a piece of moulding to rig up a rough stimpmeter, remembering high school trigonometry and movement restrictions due to yet another medical procedure may push me back to next weekend, but I'm hoping to get something sorted in the next couple of days.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Something I've done recently in the "take it to the course" category: in settling in for a putt, I imagine the PuttOUT over the hole. In particular, I try to figure out the way the PuttOUT would need to be oriented to allow the correct break to bring the putt on the line to the micro target.

[cksurfdude]

1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Something I've done recently in the "take it to the course" category: in settling in for a putt, I imagine the PuttOUT over the hole. In particular, I try to figure out the way the PuttOUT would need to be oriented to allow the correct break to bring the putt on the line to the micro target.

Nice! Everybody has their own visualization "key" to help them find either a line to the hole or a spot to putt to -- this sounds like a great method!!

[tommc23]

Today I was practicing and when I wasn't making as many putts as I thought I should have I took a break. After the break I bellied some wedges and immediately made 5 in a row. Still not sure why I can belly a wedge better than I can putt. Made progress on my stroke though and made more today than I have since I've had the whole get up.

[PuttOUT]

Well good afternoon to everyone from here in sunny London,

My name is Cam, and I'm part of the PuttOUT team and wanted to see if I could jump into the conversation and directly answer any queries or questions you had, along with following up on what's been touched on so far (I'm also the one who put those little notes in the box so greetings on another platform).

From the sounds of things, it looks like the first reaction to the products themselves have been great (woo!), followed by moment from a few testers of shock when checking stroke, alignment and setup. For those concerned, don't worry, from experience we've found this to be a pretty normal part of getting into a proper practice routine, and clearly there's already been some realisations and 'corrections' hopefully leading to improvements! Double whammy.

So firstly, a big thank you to MGS, specifically @GolfSpy MPR, @GolfSpy STUDque and @Golfspy_CG2 for asking us to come onboard with the renowned MGS Member Testing. It's truly a privilege.

Secondly, a thank you to all the testers themselves (@Kanoito, @HardcoreLooper, @Peaksy68, @tommc23 and @gaussman1) for taking up their time, getting stuck in and offering their opinions and feedback on our first three products - mat, mirror and trainer. Obviously there's a lot that goes into being thorough in testing so I can assure you that we're all very grateful here for your hard work.

Thirdly, thank you for all the exceptionally nice comments so far on different aspects of the products. It's fantastic to hear that the small details have not been taken for granted and it makes the toiling over the seemingly insignificant bits worthwhile (when it took us five rounds of prototyping just to get the cardboard tube used inside the mat packaging the way we'd like it, you quickly realise it's the tip of the iceberg).

1. The first thing that came to our attention was the question about the height of the mirror from the ground so let's see if we can offer a little more detail and get a few more thoughts from there:

The mirror itself is made up of three individual parts: a back-printed acrylic mirror part (1.5mm), a steel inner plate (1mm), and a spiked rubber outer that encases everything as one (5mm). To put this into perspective, the industry standard putting mirror stands fairly consistently at 3mm (a little less than two stacked quarters). This could have been the goal but we saw it as an unrealistic one when adding two extra layers onto what already exists. It should be noted that it did come up amongst us and we wanted to put our own minds at rest so in prototyping we sent out more than a dozen mirrors to PGA professionals, tour pros and equipment geeks with one of the follow-up questions being: "does the height cause any issues?" Without exception or prompting, the answer was that it wasn't a problem for anyone who uses or has used a mirror before. The only way we believe we could have made the product any thinner would be by glueing it all together instead of creating a casing. However this option would have meant more cost, risk of quality control (imagine trying to perfectly align and ensure the correct gluing of 30,000 three-part mirrors!), but most of all would have meant that inevitably the glue would have become unstuck. We tried to design our mirror to theoretically last forever, with the removable outer casing, it means you can take the product apart, clean it, and put it back together without any faults creeping up over time.

2. The second question that has come up so far is about our mat forming a very small ridge along the central putting line. This is an interesting one but rest assured it has a happy ending. As mentioned, we went through five rounds of prototyping simply for the mat packaging so that's a little precursor of how much care went into making the product itself!:

In creating our mat, to start off we looked at what already existed on the market and decided that there were two categories of putting mats: either the absolute top of the line putting mats out there which were very expensive, immoveable and often a rigid, permanent structure; or the more temporary options which were very low-quality, felt cheap and had constant problems (as well as big return and refund rates from retailers). We wanted to be the ones who designed a product that was great quality, discreet and portable, as well as affordable to those who didn't want to spend a huge amount kitting out an at-home studio (I know, it's the goal for us all someday).

When it comes to the possibility of a ridge being created through use, we like to use the analogy of the humble tennis ball: when the ball comes out the tube, the fibres are long but compact to the rubber inside the ball. Over a few games, the fibres begin to stand on end and become more 'fluffy', but then over time they become shorted from wear and flattened again with use. This is the same principle we applied to our putting mat: it comes out the tube and the fibres stand on end with complete uniformity. With a bit of rolling the ball down the same line over and over in a practice session, they can begin to lay down only on that one line. Over time as the mat is used more and more, the fibres flatten across the entire surface, creating an even smoother roll all across the putting surface. Where some products wear and deteriorate over time, we've found that this is one that actually gets better with play, and like our putting mirror, will last as long as you want to use it for. (We'd love to claim this bit as our lightbulb/genius/foresight moment, but really it was something we only discovered as we put our prototypes through the testing phase back in 2017 before launch)

In the meantime, the solution to any ridges is a nice, quick fix: just rough up the surface and then smooth down the fibres with your hand back to their original state aaaaand we're back!

Hopefully this is a nice little hello from us and has answered the two questions that have come up in testing so far, BUT we're here to get the best possible feedback from you to help us do even better going forward. We're doing everything we can to make the best products out there and you've shown incredible support in helping us get to a position where we can keep going and keep creating so when you have a question, just shout because with any luck, we're here for the long run.

Cam

 

 

[Kanoito]

Appreciate the feedback, Cam! Thanks for joining us!

So basically we just have to wipe down the center line once in a while to fix it? I did try it at first and it only fixed it for about 30 mins, then it went back to the groove. Or is there a better way to "rough it up"?

[HardcoreLooper]

Hi Cam - Thanks for joining the conversation.  I'll be sure to try it when I get home from vacation tomorrow.

[Golfspy_CG2]

Can has been great to work with.  We started this conversation about the testing back in the spring.   I'm glad we were finally able to get it going, he was very patient working with the busy testing schedule we had this year. 

And Putt Outs willingness to provide the complete system for testing was very generous. 

I'm looking forward to reading everyones thoughts.  This system is high on my list to take what is the strength of my game to an even higher level. 

[PuttOUT]

14 hours ago, Kanoito said:

Appreciate the feedback, Cam! Thanks for joining us!

So basically we just have to wipe down the center line once in a while to fix it? I did try it at first and it only fixed it for about 30 mins, then it went back to the groove. Or is there a better way to "rough it up"?

All. In.

Yup @Kanoito, it should be as simple as that. In fact, we've kept one specific model in our London office to see how it wears and develops with (A LOT) of use:

I've attached a picture of a 1.5 year old (left) and brand new (right) mat below to demonstrate the difference in appearance over time. As you can see, although the surface hasn't changed a whole lot, the new mat is a more sparkly with the fibres standing on end in the sunlight, whereas the 1.5 year-old mat is more of an unvaried colour throughout. This is because the fibres have been flattened out across the whole mat over hundreds of hours of putting/grind/obscure product development brainstorms.

Of course, if you do want to keep the mat staying at its most sparkliest for longer, the easiest thing to do along with brushing it is to vary the lines you putt on. So instead of just putting down the single central line, try mixing it up and putting with the two other parallel side lines, from the opposite end, or even across the mat diagonally and see how you fare.

Fingers crossed this is a help but if you have any more questions, fire them over and we'll be right here to answer them posthaste!

Cam

[PuttOUT]

6 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Can has been great to work with.  We started this conversation about the testing back in the spring.   I'm glad we were finally able to get it going, he was very patient working with the busy testing schedule we had this year. 

And Putt Outs willingness to provide the complete system for testing was very generous. 

I'm looking forward to reading everyones thoughts.  This system is high on my list to take what is the strength of my game to an even higher level. 

*dabs with delight*

Well that's very kind of you @Golfspy_CG2. Let's hope the products help you as well as everyone else take the part of the game which there really shouldn't be any excuses for lacking to the next level. Here. We. Go.

[HardcoreLooper]

We moved the gate and mirror to the side for the six footers and the gate drill tonight, and we were actually able to get a decent number of putts through the gate again.  Some light scuffing with the foot down the centerline didn't seem to help much.  I'll get the broom out to see if that helps.

[Kanoito]

The ball still wobbles after brushing the mat up and down. I'll try the other 2 parallel lines and see if it's better. 

I gotta say, I didn't like the mirror at the beginning, now I'm loving it.

[tommc23]

Still have some path issues but it's now every once in a while instead of constant 

[tommc23]

The video made me realize I'm standing too close too it looks like standing away from the ball a little more might help too.

[yungkory]

3 hours ago, tommc23 said:

The video made me realize I'm standing too close too it looks like standing away from the ball a little more might help too.

Where are your eyes in the mirror in relation to the ball? I've found that for me, I do best when my eyes are just inside the ball, no more than an inch. Helps my stroke, and helps me see lines. Working with a normal mirror as well, I found that my putter was pretty toe up because my hands were too low, something I read about when researching P2 grips: https://p2grips.com/the-science/

The eye line feedback from the mirror is probably my favorite thing about it, and the gate you put in front of the mirror to check if you're putting the ball on your line.

 

[tommc23]

3 hours ago, yungkory said:

Where are your eyes in the mirror in relation to the ball? I've found that for me, I do best when my eyes are just inside the ball, no more than an inch. Helps my stroke, and helps me see lines. Working with a normal mirror as well, I found that my putter was pretty toe up because my hands were too low, something I read about when researching P2 grips: https://p2grips.com/the-science/

The eye line feedback from the mirror is probably my favorite thing about it, and the gate you put in front of the mirror to check if you're putting the ball on your line.

 

My eye line in this was half way on the mirror. When I stood back barely on the mirror but I started to make more putts.

[PuttOUT]

19 hours ago, tommc23 said:

Still have some path issues but it's now every once in a while instead of constant 

Great stuff, @tommc23. It's falling into what we've always wanted for those trying our products from the beginning: to get more people practicing and really giving themselves the chance to improve... and that's exactly what it sounds like you're doing! 

As a side note, with the amount of trade shows, events and in seeing people first-hand, it really does become evident that it's not a lack of skill in improving putting, it's the lack of willingness to try. Now being an MGS contributor, it probably won't be those on here who have a golf-defeatist mindset but if someone approaches us to see what's happening, we'll often ask them if they're a good putter with the answer almost certainly being one of two responses:

1) "I'm a great putter, I don't need to practice"

2) "I'm a terrible putter, it won't help"

Our big goal is to try and design products that actually make people want to practice. Over time, this will lead (please, please, please) to inevitably noticing tendencies which you can either decide to adjust (with or without a teacher's guidance), or roll with them and know how to use them to your advantage (see Tiger toe strikes: https://bit.ly/2JV2xK4). In any case, you know your stroke better so hearing that you're making what you feel are helpful adjustments that aren't simply a fleeting idea from a friend* but are built on real testing... THAT is the music to our ears. 

Bravo, T23. Keep on the grind.
 

*Hey, we'll all do it.

[Peaksy68]

Did a rough speed comparison with my clubs practice green using a very rough homemade stimpmeter.



The mat is definitely slower than my clubs green, which was about 11. I rolled balls from reduced distance to roll the longest I could on the mat. From the same mark (about 2” short of 30” standard the practice green was about 1.5’ faster.

Using the ramp on the practice green was really good, something I can definitely see myself doing moving forward


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[HardcoreLooper]

Allie and I spent a few minutes scuffing up the centerline with our feet, and the mat is much better.  Not perfect, but better.  Interestingly, the groove seems to be more noticeable when you hit putts firmer.  That seems to be a bit counterintuitive.

I do want to let everyone know that the phone I use with Arccos (not my daily driver, that one has a crappy GPS chip) has decided to drop dead on me, so I don't have quantitative data for my review.  I will say that qualitatively, I am annoying the living sh!t out of my buddies with my putting.  If I'm playing a course with reasonably smooth greens, I feel like I can't miss from inside 10 feet.  And I was pretty happy with my putting before this.  Allie feels like she is putting better as well.

 

On 7/26/2019 at 6:09 AM, PuttOUT said:

what we've always wanted for those trying our products from the beginning: to get more people practicing and really giving themselves the chance to improve

 

I think that's the key.  Maybe these products aren't that much better than others on the market, but if they get you to practice, then they are good and you'll get better.

 

[tommc23]

Tomorrow is going to be my first round since using the system and changing my putting stroke. I will see how it goes