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Gonna try one out as well. I don't have a problem feeling more rotation when I'm swinging my wedges, but it doesn't translate to my irons and driver, maybe this will help!

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2 hours ago, jlukes said:

My iron and wedge distance went up a little because it's help me stop flipping. Thus, I'm presenting less dynamic loft and getting a more ideal trajectory.  

I would expect that, along with better rotation, would lead to so increased speed for you 

 

I agree that if you can continue to practice with the planemate that the speed of the rotation leads to an increase in distance and tighter dispersion.  I've tried to utilize a "mental" planemate, but find I lose the sensation of the connection after a couple of rounds.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a tracking number!

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2 minutes ago, Erik-M said:

I'm gonna have to start paying facility fees to use your equipment

I've got to be close to having the best golf lesson studio in the Upper Peninsula. If only I knew what I was doing....

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I got my planemate about a week ago, but the clamp and cords weren’t in the box. Quick email to support and they sent me the rest of the gear. 

Full disclosure I am completely new to golf. I only had one lesson and struggle with rotating my hips instead of my upper body. 

I’m on day 2 of the videos and boy are the one handed shots are difficult. 
 

I fell like it’s helping me get that “feeling” of rotating bc the cord pulls my right hip. 
 

I will say I’m a little annoyed that I had to use masking tape on my wedge to stop the clamp from rotating and sliding up. At $162 you’d think they would have that solved. 

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I am a big follower of Adam Young who makes it clear that it doesn't matter how your swing looks, it only matters how the club strikes the ball so I have avoided this sort of thing. But, quarantine has me going crazy and I have one coming today. I'm very excited to try this out and will share my feedback on it!

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I am a big follower of Adam Young who makes it clear that it doesn't matter how your swing looks, it only matters how the club strikes the ball so I have avoided this sort of thing. But, quarantine has me going crazy and I have one coming today. I'm very excited to try this out and will share my feedback on it!

I agree with what you are saying but you have to work on making contact better and being able to repeat that contact.

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On 8/13/2019 at 12:12 PM, mr.hicksta said:

 


I’ve primarily used it for my daily swings in the house and it definitely helps you get the correct feelings. I tried it on the range once, but didn’t have very good results. I’ll be giving it another go soon though because I think I had the band set too tight. With consistent use over time I think it will make a difference!

 

I believe anyone playing the game should have one and continue with it until they strike the ball well!  It's that good and that correct!!  it is pretty tough to hit balls with the tightest strap!  I say your earlier post about trying to muscle it.  Frequent problem for golfers who don't have the muscles you do!  It usually requires a concept change that discovers you can create more speed with the feeling of less effort.  Eventually you will see the ball go farther and it will shock you.  Frankly, I don't like the feel of my swing that produces the fastest ball speeds and usually the best precision.  I've learned I'd rather be uncomfortable and decent that comfortable and not very good.  Tough journey.  Possible golfer should stop looking for comfort and start seeking productive & useful.  

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I believe anyone playing the game should have one and continue with it until they strike the ball well!  It's that good and that correct!!  it is pretty tough to hit balls with the tightest strap!  I say your earlier post about trying to muscle it.  Frequent problem for golfers who don't have the muscles you do!  It usually requires a concept change that discovers you can create more speed with the feeling of less effort.  Eventually you will see the ball go farther and it will shock you.  Frankly, I don't like the feel of my swing that produces the fastest ball speeds and usually the best precision.  I've learned I'd rather be uncomfortable and decent that comfortable and not very good.  Tough journey.  Possible golfer should stop looking for comfort and start seeking productive & useful.  


Thanks for posting this Ed. Nice to hear feedback from a coach that I know and trust.

I understand you comfortable and not very good vs uncomfortable and decent. When I was taking lessons from you many years ago, we talked a bit about the amount swing changes and the players goals/commitment. My question is, does this force everyone into the same swing model? Would you advocate this for someone just trying to play their best golf or more for someone looking to be a more competitive/tournament player.

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16 hours ago, cnosil said:

 


Thanks for posting this Ed. Nice to hear feedback from a coach that I know and trust.

I understand you comfortable and not very good vs uncomfortable and decent. When I was taking lessons from you many years ago, we talked a bit about the amount swing changes and the players goals/commitment. My question is, does this force everyone into the same swing model? Would you advocate this for someone just trying to play their best golf or more for someone looking to be a more competitive/tournament player.

 

Great question.  I often wonder why golf has this 'swing your way' mentality that isn't as relevant in other sports?  Your used the word 'force' which I'm assuming to mean that matching a model would be negative.  Wouldn't golf be an easier game if everyone assimilated into a model?    In other words, functional players have little to modest issues with the Planemate, while non-functional golfers hate it with a passion. 

I took a class during this downtime with Mike Adams & Terry Rowles that included biomechanist and one fitness guy.  They demonstrated a series of screens that would identify basic swing characteristics based on body structure, intuitive movements, and a small amount of physical capabilities.  It has been very useful and helpful for my players and champions modest variations of functional.  The players who don't or won't match the characteristics are the ones who still struggle with ball control.    

What does this mean?  High level golfers have commonalities while low level golfers share the bond of variety!  Practically speaking, amateurs/recreation players have to be more technically correct than tour players!  If you aren't practicing and playing like a tour player, than you need something that functions predictably.   

So why don't recreational golfers seek a model?  People don't like to change and we are afraid of the unknown.  We are actually more comfortable with the known negatives than the unknown of future positives.  

As for the differences between the player just trying to play their best golf versus a competitive player? There are none and both want to do something better than they do today.  The answer, get to work!   What is your mission?  What is your strategy to win or achieve the mission?  What skills do I have to improve and which ones do I need to develop?  Get to work!

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2 hours ago, edteergolf said:

Great question.  I often wonder why golf has this 'swing your way' mentality that isn't as relevant in other sports?  Your used the word 'force' which I'm assuming to mean that matching a model would be negative.  Wouldn't golf be an easier game if everyone assimilated into a model?    In other words, functional players have little to modest issues with the Planemate, while non-functional golfers hate it with a passion. 

I took a class during this downtime with Mike Adams & Terry Rowles that included biomechanist and one fitness guy.  They demonstrated a series of screens that would identify basic swing characteristics based on body structure, intuitive movements, and a small amount of physical capabilities.  It has been very useful and helpful for my players and champions modest variations of functional.  The players who don't or won't match the characteristics are the ones who still struggle with ball control.    

What does this mean?  High level golfers have commonalities while low level golfers share the bond of variety!  Practically speaking, amateurs/recreation players have to be more technically correct than tour players!  If you aren't practicing and playing like a tour player, than you need something that functions predictably.   

So why don't recreational golfers seek a model?  People don't like to change and we are afraid of the unknown.  We are actually more comfortable with the known negatives than the unknown of future positives.  

As for the differences between the player just trying to play their best golf versus a competitive player? There are none and both want to do something better than they do today.  The answer, get to work!   What is your mission?  What is your strategy to win or achieve the mission?  What skills do I have to improve and which ones do I need to develop?  Get to work!

Let me rephrase my question a bit and make sure I understand what you are saying.   I view the "swing your way" mentality as people need to have solid fundamentals and all the components and sequencing of the swing need to work together,  but I don't need to look like Adam Scott, Tiger Woods, or even Jim Furyk.   My swing has a signature unique to me and as long as the pieces of that swing don't conflict with each other I can be effective with my swing.  I could also follow more of a single plane or multiple plane approach or the "swing of the month" meaning stack and tilt, A swing, and today's rotational based .  These differences as you stated in your second paragraph are related to body structure, intuitive movements, and some aspect of my physical capabilities.    What is a functional vs not functional player???

From a change perspective I would prefer to remove things from my swing that are timing related since that can vary with each swing....when timing is good,  the player plays well,  when it is off,  the player struggles.   

So about the work aspect and the planemate.   I don't mind the work aspect (still working on the short game changes from my last lesson with you),  but is the planemate the right "tool" for every player?  Would you as an instructor blindly recommend it for a player?   

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Let me rephrase my question a bit and make sure I understand what you are saying.   I view the "swing your way" mentality as people need to have solid fundamentals and all the components and sequencing of the swing need to work together,  but I don't need to look like Adam Scott, Tiger Woods, or even Jim Furyk.   My swing has a signature unique to me and as long as the pieces of that swing don't conflict with each other I can be effective with my swing.  I could also follow more of a single plane or multiple plane approach or the "swing of the month" meaning stack and tilt, A swing, and today's rotational based .  These differences as you stated in your second paragraph are related to body structure, intuitive movements, and some aspect of my physical capabilities.    What is a functional vs not functional player???
From a change perspective I would prefer to remove things from my swing that are timing related since that can vary with each swing....when timing is good,  the player plays well,  when it is off,  the player struggles.   
So about the work aspect and the planemate.   I don't mind the work aspect (still working on the short game changes from my last lesson with you),  but is the planemate the right "tool" for every player?  Would you as an instructor blindly recommend it for a player?   

Herein lies the crux of finding the “right” coach. Who knows if what swing I’m being taught is right for ME. Frustrating, as I’ve taken lessons from five coaches, and every single one of them, at some point, introduced a method. From a “Golf Channel” coach and in-person lessons, to the guy I’m taking lessons from online now. I have NO idea if they actually fit my “natural” swing. Planemate definitely teaches the feel of a specific method.


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1 hour ago, PMookie said:


Herein lies the crux of finding the “right” coach. Who knows if what swing I’m being taught is right for ME. Frustrating, as I’ve taken lessons from five coaches, and every single one of them, at some point, introduced a method. From a “Golf Channel” coach and in-person lessons, to the guy I’m taking lessons from online now. I have NO idea if they actually fit my “natural” swing. Planemate definitely teaches the feel of a specific method.

 

I hear ya.   The good thing is that I have found a good coach/instructor and while he hasn't seen my full swing in a long time,  he is the person responding to my questions 🙂

 

 

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24 minutes ago, edteergolf said:

Chris - this is to you and anyone reading. 

If everyone simply succumbed to the Planmate, they could create a predictable ball flight with enough precision.

Function means it works.  Positive: in the direction of solving or achieving. Productive: provides a workable solution & is quantifiable.  Persistent:  The player sticks to the course of action and doesn't search when things go poorly.    We all know the ugly swing that kicks your ass!  If it is predictable it likely functions.  Even something 'wrong' or non-conforming can produce a predictable pattern and can be employed to play the game at a reasonable level. 

I do believe it is possible to learn a model unless there is a major limiting factor.  Models among the best teachers/players is more prevalent than most want to believe. If you follow the lineage of the best teachers (they have players that produce) you would find The Golfing Machine, Stack & Tilt, and Mac O'Grady/MORAD at the top of the list.  Let us not forget that Foley & Dahlquist come from Stack & Tilt.  Innovators are often at the extreme followed by those that make the extreme more useful to more golfers.  Somewhere on the list is guys like Mike Adams & Terry Rowles.  These guys along with Foley & Dahlquist have an understanding of the variations that function at high levels.  Mike & Terry have a fantastic program that screens a golfer and predicts with a very high rate of success the likely characteristics of a players golf swing.  I have found it to be the best education I have received in many years and it has had an immediate effect on my players.  

Scott, Woods, & Furyk are more alike than not. 

Talking about planes is a poor way to go and very misleading.  Planes can provide a basis for communicating but this is about it for their usefulness.  

Every swing has timing & sequence.    Embrace it and train it. 

If you want to see a system at work,  follow Andreas Kali on Instagram.  If you must, look up some of the players and report their score production.  Identify & report his teaching model?  Does his system work?  Why would it or wouldn't it work for you? 

I am a bad golf coach!  A great golf coach makes a great living and performing their craft.  Like an idiot, I refuse to teach/coach people who don't want the entire system.  Golf 101 - Technique  Golf 200 Skills & Patterns  Golf 300 Tactical Strategy, Knowledge, & Decision Making. Golf 400 Putting it together & Self Efficacy.  Then you can earn a masters degree. Golfers who shoot in over 100, 90, 80, 70, and better can all join the program.   

A entrepreneur provides the customer what they want!  They want to experience a one hour honeymoon hitting golf shots that provide hope for their next few rounds.  The golfer is happy to pay good money for this experience.  I hated much of my time spent in this environment.  Other golfers witness this honeymoon followed by crisis and correctly decide that lessons don't work.  

Removing things from technique is high level coaching but only applicable when something functions.  Most amateur golfers have multiple conflicting patterns of compensation.  Changing one part of the swing will require a second change.  This pattern is repeated until function exists.  This is the path for the player who earns a living as a golfer. The other way is to unlearn and rebuild a new pattern.  Amateurs golfers don't play for a living and should just learn to do it correctly.  

There is short uphill road to mastery that requires work, frustration, & commitment followed by freedom.  It is one mile long difficult and exhausting journey.  The other direction is the path of least resistance. It is a slippery road filled with encouragement by the many people who travel it.  At the bottom is the masses of mediocrity.  

I had a great conversation with GG/George Gankas about one of his students that is a potential recruit for my team.  Would you like to guess which way he would like to coach all his players?  Would you like to guess how he makes his money?  

I believe you can make a physical swing change in two weeks with 20 minutes of work a day.  You can employ the change and its benefits predictably on the golf course 90 days later if you follow the plan. Is that bettor or worse than the system your currently employ?   This forum and others is filled with journeys that are still in process years after they began.  Is their system working?  Remember, excuses are lies we tell ourselves when we don't want to do the work, don't believe we are capable, or don't trust the person you have hired as your coach.  

@edteergolf - thx for sharing your insights, especially about coaching / learning vs instructing/following .. good stuff.

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@edteergolf thanks for the detailed response and there is lots of information in there to process digest.  I really find your reference to Mike Adams interesting;  I saw him on an episode of Swing Expedition and  was definitely intrigued by what they showed of his approach.    I looked up Andreas Kali and he definitely teaches a system;  all his students look basically the same.  

The reason I like getting instruction from you is discussions like this.  To me it is more than just learning to play better;  it is also about why we are trying to do the things we do.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
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10 hours ago, cnosil said:

@edteergolf thanks for the detailed response and there is lots of information in there to process digest.  I really find your reference to Mike Adams interesting;  I saw him on an episode of Swing Expedition and  was definitely intrigued by what they showed of his approach.    I looked up Andreas Kali and he definitely teaches a system;  all his students look basically the same.  

The reason I like getting instruction from you is discussions like this.  To me it is more than just learning to play better;  it is also about why we are trying to do the things we do.  

Thank you.  The key take away is concerning systems.  What Kali does works, not because they look the same, but because his kids score well.   So, whatever system you chose, commit to it and do not deviate. 

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On 5/29/2020 at 11:43 AM, cnosil said:


I agree with what you are saying but you have to work on making contact better and being able to repeat that contact.

Yeah 100%. The 2nd half of last season I really focused solely on the idea of hammering a nail through the ball and simply making good contact and I dropped my handicap from 12 to 9. I think tools like the planemate are great for practice but once you hit the course, all that matters is contact.

Edited by ObsessiveIndecisive

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I'm really excited that my Planemate arrived yesterday!! This is something I've really been wanting to explore, and it seems only fitting to buy and test out this product after doing the Tour Striker Academy review a few years ago.  I wanted to treat my review of this almost as an official review.  I was gracious enough to grab a previous template from the Mods.  I'm going to modify it and post it as a final review.  So excited to get into this product!

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3 Wood: Taylormade SIM
3 Utility Iron: Srixon U85
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6i – AW: Taylormade P770
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LW: Taylormade Hi-Toe 3 Low Bounce
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I received my second Planemate yesterday. I had a Planemate previously, used it for like a day, was being ADHD and focused on something else, sold it for more than I paid.

Then I decided I wanted another one and bought one again 😂

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Just got mine as well. Kinda bought it to use while on lockdown as a way to keep the swing goin and now that we can golf, combined with the fact that I just shot the round of my life at 3-over with a triple-bogey, I'm kind of wondering if I want to go down this rabbit hole. Not going to sit here and pretend like I'm ready for my tour card, but don't know if I want to be tinkering with the ole swing after playing pretty consistently and dropping my handicap to an all-time low of 8.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S

3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105

Putter: LAB Link.1

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

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3 hours ago, yungkory said:

Just got mine as well. Kinda bought it to use while on lockdown as a way to keep the swing goin and now that we can golf, combined with the fact that I just shot the round of my life at 3-over with a triple-bogey, I'm kind of wondering if I want to go down this rabbit hole. Not going to sit here and pretend like I'm ready for my tour card, but don't know if I want to be tinkering with the ole swing after playing pretty consistently and dropping my handicap to an all-time low of 8.

Use it for practicing partial shots and chipping. It will really improve your short game 

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I was on Instagram and saw a post by Claude Harmon III with a down-the-line of Koepka in slo-mo. I noticed that Koepka doesn’t have his shaft on his elbow line on the way down, so I messaged Harmon. Well, he actually replied. Here’s what he said:
“I don’t know much, but I do know it’s hard to hit a fade with the club behind u coming down, shallow and the path to the right. U can draw it from there, but u can’t start it left enough to hit a fade.”
Guess what I asked my coach to help me hit?
A fade.... Guess what he taught me? Dropping the club behind me, and swinging around like the Planemate teaches. Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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34 minutes ago, PMookie said:

I was on Instagram and saw a post by Claude Harmon III with a down-the-line of Koepka in slo-mo. I noticed that Koepka doesn’t have his shaft on his elbow line on the way down, so I messaged Harmon. Well, he actually replied. Here’s what he said:
“I don’t know much, but I do know it’s hard to hit a fade with the club behind u coming down, shallow and the path to the right. U can draw it from there, but u can’t start it left enough to hit a fade.”
Guess what I asked my coach to help me hit?
A fade.... Guess what he taught me? Dropping the club behind me, and swinging around like the Planemate teaches. Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The power fade that Dustin Johnson plays is a fade played with the club behind. However in order to do so you need to have maximum rotation and really get the hands in front through impact. 

Dustin Johnson's swing is extremely rotational. 

Brooks Koepka's swing has minimal rotation and is extremely armsy. Brooks literally muscles the ball. Not a swing most guys can get away with. 

 

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54 minutes ago, PMookie said:

I was on Instagram and saw a post by Claude Harmon III with a down-the-line of Koepka in slo-mo. I noticed that Koepka doesn’t have his shaft on his elbow line on the way down, so I messaged Harmon. Well, he actually replied. Here’s what he said:
“I don’t know much, but I do know it’s hard to hit a fade with the club behind u coming down, shallow and the path to the right. U can draw it from there, but u can’t start it left enough to hit a fade.”
Guess what I asked my coach to help me hit?
A fade.... Guess what he taught me? Dropping the club behind me, and swinging around like the Planemate teaches. Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You can make the ball turn left to right with literally any path as long as the club face is open in comparison to the path. If you come from the inside and have a slightly open face to path, you’ll hit a push fade. Kind of like hitting little blocks out to the right. Maybe Harmon means you can’t hit a fade to your target line, since the ball starts right and fades more right?
 

There is a way to hit a pull fade with a rotational swing where the club comes from the inside. It’s how I hit a ball then I want to take the right side out of play. Aim a bit left of target to give yourself more room. Then just feel like you are trying to hit a pull. My thought is to look at the target and then think about a little extra rotation and the ball flying to the left of my aim point and curving right. You do have to hold the face open or set your grip a bit weak. I don’t care if I accidentally pull it to much because it will still curve back towards my line, and I hit this shot when left is the good miss. I know it sounds complicated, but that’s only because I’m trying to describe the feel. And yes technically the path is left of target, but its done with a standard swing coming from inside the ball and relatively on plane. 
 

In theory another way to make an on plane swing and hit a pull fade is to move the ball forward so it shifts the impact point relative to the D-plane, then open the clubface a bit. Probably going to hit a very high shot this way. I like trying to hit a pull better bc it gives me an active thought of “hit it left”.

 

Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph
 

Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X
3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts
3h: Tour Edge EXS Pro, Smoke Black 80g 6.0
4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300
Wedges: Titleist SM7
56* Wedge: Callaway Jaws w/ 12* of bounce

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2 hours ago, PMookie said:

I was on Instagram and saw a post by Claude Harmon III with a down-the-line of Koepka in slo-mo. I noticed that Koepka doesn’t have his shaft on his elbow line on the way down, so I messaged Harmon. Well, he actually replied. Here’s what he said:
“I don’t know much, but I do know it’s hard to hit a fade with the club behind u coming down, shallow and the path to the right. U can draw it from there, but u can’t start it left enough to hit a fade.”
Guess what I asked my coach to help me hit?
A fade.... Guess what he taught me? Dropping the club behind me, and swinging around like the Planemate teaches. Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Here is the rub.  Koepka's club is still inside his hands.  Let me explain.  The camera is setup somewhere between the golf ball/target line & the player's body and at some height based on Claude's preference.  In that image Koepka's club appears to be slightly outside the hands.  To hit a fade, he needs to swing some amount left of the target line with a closed face producing a ball starting left and fading right.  If the ball starts left, meaning a new start line and you were to move that camera to the right, it would then appear that Koepka's club was back inside his hands some amount.  This is the downfall of using only a camera if you don't understand what you are looking for.  Change the height and angle of the camera and you have no basis for comparison.  There are not many, if any, good golfers that swing the the club head outside of the hands.  

Take what you are doing a simply baseline shift left a bit and might see your desired fade.  Baseline shifts are infrequently employed among amateur golfers and frequently employed with professional golfers.  There is a reason few very good players appear setup like the so called desired railroad tracks.  The reality is the railroad track alignment is not a true fundamental of golf. 

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