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I agree with what Adam Scott said - you have to make guys shape the ball.... 

I agree as well but as we seen this last weekend, with soft fairways and no roll, these guys were taking the doglegs out of some of the holes and just bombing it over trees to the fairway. With a firmer fairway they either lay up or shape the shot.


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I understand that the FedEx Cup playoffs are for the players that played consistent golf throughout the year, but IMHO it can't be called the Tour Championship anymore.  Not when Major champions Tiger

It's like playing in a handicap tournament, only you are giving the best players strokes.  🤐

Livelyhood? What about poor Viktor Hovland that got screwed out of a card by a few points... and then they change the rule the following week... that is crap.  

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1 minute ago, blackngold_blood said:


I agree as well but as we seen this last weekend, with soft fairways and no roll, these guys were taking the doglegs out of some of the holes and just bombing it over trees to the fairway. With a firmer fairway they either lay up or shape the shot.


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yeah...you've go to make them shape it by not allowing cutting the corner or make the risk so high if they try that it would be severely punished.

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29 minutes ago, GolfSpy Stroker said:

I agree with what Adam Scott said - you have to make guys shape the ball.... 

Golf courses have been lengthened for the games elite for 40 years.  The games elite have learned to meet or exceed those measures.  It's time to try something different!

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different results! ~Albert Einstein~

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Just now, sixcat said:

Golf courses have been lengthened for the games elite for 40 years.  The games elite have learned to meet or exceed those measures.  It's time to try something different!

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different results! ~Albert Einstein~

SHAPE... not bomb the ball... shaping shots is a true skill.... bombing shots is not.

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I read an interesting proposal from Andy Johnson at The Fried Egg on how to combat the technology boom that is happening on tour. It spoke to shortening courses rather than lengthening them.  Here's the link to the article:

https://thefriedegg.com/combating-bomb-and-gouge-a-new-proposal/

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1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Imagine that, we disagree on another subject!  Ryder Cup isn't a stroke play event, as I pointed out in my post!  Nearly half the field was still playing either wound or balata balls in 2006 and most certainly were in 1999.  As was also referenced in Andy Johnson's piece on The Fried Egg.  Average Tour driving distance in 1999 was 272 and 289 in 2006.  Vastly different game than what's played on Tour today! 

I will bow out from further argument with you from here.  It's becoming habitual with you!

 

Who was playing a wound or balata ball in 2006? The Prov1 came out around 2000?

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1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Who was playing a wound or balata ball in 2006? The Prov1 came out around 2000?

It was clearly a typo given the context of his comment.

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1999 yes, but 2006 absolutely not. Tiger won the US Open in 2000 with a solid core ball. Titleist put out the Pro V1 in late 2000 and it quickly became the #1 ball on tour and it also was solid core. Nobody on tour was playing wound core by 2006.

Golf.com put out a good piece on the Nike Tour Accuracy and Tiger earlier this year. Here's a couple quotes.

"At the 2000 Masters, one month before Woods officially put the Nike Tour Accuracy into tournament play in Germany, 59 of the 95 players had used a wound ball. In the ensuing year, Woods won nine events. When he capped off the Tiger Slam in 2001 at Augusta National, all but four players in the field used a solid-core ball."

"The effect that the development of the Nike Tour Accuracy and Woods’s use of it had on other players and golf history wasn’t lost on Woods. Years later, in 2014, he said, 'The biggest transition I ever made was in 2000. I won four straight majors with that ball, and the rest is history, because wound-ball technology is gone. Everyone switched. Being a part of that wave of innovation was exciting for me.'"

Full piece is here: https://www.golf.com/gear/balls/2019/05/28/tiger-woods-golf-ball-nike/

Imagine that, we disagree on another subject!  Ryder Cup isn't a stroke play event, as I pointed out in my post!  Nearly half the field was still playing either wound or balata balls in 2006 and most certainly were in 1999.  As was also referenced in Andy Johnson's piece on The Fried Egg.  Average Tour driving distance in 1999 was 272 and 289 in 2006.  Vastly different game than what's played on Tour today! 
I will bow out from further argument with you from here.  It's becoming habitual with you!
 


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14 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Who was playing a wound or balata ball in 2006? The Prov1 came out around 2000?

That was meant to be 1996 to reflect the initial solid core golf ball to hit the market.....the Top Flite Strata.  Mark O'Mara put it into play shortly after it's launch.  Which began the whole movement.

https://www.golf.com/gear/balls/2019/05/28/tiger-woods-golf-ball-nike/

 

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7 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

1999 yes, but 2006 absolutely not. Tiger won the US Open in 2000 with a solid core ball. Titleist put out the Pro V1 in late 2000 and it quickly became the #1 ball on tour and it also was solid core. Nobody on tour was playing wound core by 2006.

Golf.com put out a good piece on the Nike Tour Accuracy and Tiger earlier this year. Here's a couple quotes.

"At the 2000 Masters, one month before Woods officially put the Nike Tour Accuracy into tournament play in Germany, 59 of the 95 players had used a wound ball. In the ensuing year, Woods won nine events. When he capped off the Tiger Slam in 2001 at Augusta National, all but four players in the field used a solid-core ball."

"The effect that the development of the Nike Tour Accuracy and Woods’s use of it had on other players and golf history wasn’t lost on Woods. Years later, in 2014, he said, 'The biggest transition I ever made was in 2000. I won four straight majors with that ball, and the rest is history, because wound-ball technology is gone. Everyone switched. Being a part of that wave of innovation was exciting for me.'"

Full piece is here: https://www.golf.com/gear/balls/2019/05/28/tiger-woods-golf-ball-nike/

 


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Read the above post!!!!!!!!!!

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3 hours ago, sixcat said:

The following are all quotes from last week:

 Adam Scott: “They haven’t figured out yet that long means nothing to us; you can’t build it long enough…. The driver is the most forgiving club in the bag now; it’s just swing as hard as you can and get it down there far. It’s not a skilful part of the game anymore, and it’s really unfair for some guys who are great drivers of the golf ball.”

Brandt Snedeker: “Now the drivers are made so easy to hit that there’s no penalty for swinging as hard as you want to at every driver because it won’t go as far off-line. There’s no penalty for really going all-out on one. That’s changed a lot. I don’t think their talents are showing up as much as they should.”

Tiger Woods: “Now you just pull out driver, bomb it down there, and you’re looking for three to four good weeks a year. Today’s equipment, you can maximize a driver and just absolutely bomb it, and some of the guys sacrifice stuff around the greens or short irons for the drive. The driver is the most important club in the bag now just because of the way the game is played.”

Andy Johnson: To keep up with the changing game in the aughts, Medinah No. 3 underwent multiple renovations at the hands of “Open Doctor” Rees Jones. His formula was a straightforward extension of philosophies that had worked in the past. Longer holes, deeper bunkers, narrower fairways. This recipe has made Medinah No. 3 nearly unplayable for the average golfer, but it checks all the boxes for what tournament selection committees usually look for in a “championship venue.”

In my opinion, golf is changing right before our eyes and the USGA is terrified to enact necessary rollbacks in equipment to keep the integrity of the game intact.  The golf ball doesn't spin.  Modern drivers are unmissable in the hands of elite players.  Talents such as controlling trajectory, spin and approach angles are virtually nonexistent.  Cam Champ is famous for prodigious distance.  What else can he do?  His stats and category rankings suggest....nothing!  He is negative in every category of strokes gained except off the tee.  So, Tiger is in effect, correct.  Guys play in hopes of putting it all together a few weeks a year rather than improving their overall game to be good every week.

As for Medinah, Rees Jones made it a difficult golf course before the solid core golf ball.  But Medinah hasn't hosted an elite professional stroke play event since the solid core golf ball became commonplace....until now!  Couple that with soft conditions, you get record scoring by multiple players.  At least that's my take on it.

What everyone misses in this argument is that golfers have advanced dramatically over the years and that change has been increased exponentially in the last 5-10 years. They are no longer the guys in the gym working on cardio, stretching with bands or doing yoga. They are ATHLETES first and golfers second. We also have way more information available easier with technological changes as well as a complete different approach to how the game is played. All this has changed the game regardless of the equipment being used.  DJ carried a persimmon wood 290, without much practice. 

Course setup and architecture is and will always be king. We saw it at last years Ryder Cup, we saw it at this years US Am. We saw it at this years US open.  It can trump everything.

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4 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

What everyone misses in this argument is that golfers have advanced dramatically over the years and that change has been increased exponentially in the last 5-10 years. They are no longer the guys in the gym working on cardio, stretching with bands or doing yoga. They are ATHLETES first and golfers second. We also have way more information available easier with technological changes as well as a complete different approach to how the game is played. All this has changed the game regardless of the equipment being used.  DJ carried a persimmon wood 290, without much practice. 

Course setup and architecture is and will always be king. We saw it at last years Ryder Cup, we saw it at this years US Am. We saw it at this years US open.  It can trump everything.

Excellent point!  20 years ago, 95% of the Tour looked like Brandel Chamlbee.  Now, 95% look like Steph Curry!

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Even with all the distance gains the scoring bag hasn’t changed much on tour. So despite the technology improvements with balls and clubs these guys still have to get the bell in the hole

 

 

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Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

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Methods to which players score is where the biggest change to the game has happened.  The driver has historically never been a scoring club.  Hence the phrase "drive for show, putt for dough."  By in large, putting and short game skills are a few notches below where Tour players were 20 years ago.  Which is directly reflected in Tiger's statement from last week I quoted before.

There has never been a more telling graphic than the one posted by AimPoint a month ago.

Short game skill and accuracy have never had less value at the highest levels of golf!

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6 hours ago, sixcat said:

Methods to which players score is where the biggest change to the game has happened.  The driver has historically never been a scoring club.  Hence the phrase "drive for show, putt for dough."  By in large, putting and short game skills are a few notches below where Tour players were 20 years ago.  Which is directly reflected in Tiger's statement from last week I quoted before.

There has never been a more telling graphic than the one posted by AimPoint a month ago.

Short game skill and accuracy have never had less value at the highest levels of golf!

Interesting. That is pretty telling.  The game has definitely changed.  It would be fun to see a comparison of current vs. 60's era players typical distances and club selections from tee to green.

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13 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Interesting. That is pretty telling.  The game has definitely changed.  It would be fun to see a comparison of current vs. 60's era players typical distances and club selections from tee to green.

That’s like comparing apples to oranges. The balls are different, clubs and materials are different. Technology has had a big influence on everything in the game. Manufacturers changed the ball so clubs were redesigned to work with the ball, shafts then get redesigned to work better with the club head designs. 

Then launch monitors and dynamic fittings to optimize ball flight. Training regimens and the various resources to improve ones fitness. 

The way fairways, rough and greens are cut play a role too.

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

That’s like comparing apples to oranges. The balls are different, clubs and materials are different. Technology has had a big influence on everything in the game. Manufacturers changed the ball so clubs were redesigned to work with the ball, shafts then get redesigned to work better with the club head designs. 

Then launch monitors and dynamic fittings to optimize ball flight. Training regimens and the various resources to improve ones fitness. 

The way fairways, rough and greens are cut play a role too.

Certainly equipment and players have changed but I think it would still be interesting to see the difference in typical club selections.  I suspect at least two more clubs were used than what, more or less, has become the driver, wedge, and putter tour.  

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