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Counter balance shafts anyone?


therod

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I am just curious if anyone has played a high balance point shaft in their driver, and what difference it made if any. I am looking at options to try something different in my F7+, and since I have never played a counter balance shaft, I'm curious to try one.

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There is a video on the TXG YouTube channel that talks about counter balanced shafts and what they do. Some of the stock shafts in the Ping G400 line have counterbalanced shafts. For me it provides nothing that I notice but I haven’t compared side by side on a launch monitor. If you want to try counter balancing, use some lead tape or get the the boccieri grip for your driver.


https://www.golfworks.com/boccieri-golf-secret-grip/p/bg0001/


Basically it adds weight to the butt end to lighted swingweight when using heavy driver heads. Supposed to make swing more consistent and faster.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I am just curious if anyone has played a high balance point shaft in their driver, and what difference it made if any. I am looking at options to try something different in my F7+, and since I have never played a counter balance shaft, I'm curious to try one.

I feel a MAJOR difference between drivers that have counterbalanced shafts vs ones that don’t. One without feels VERY head-heavy, and I hate that feel! The Kuro Kage I had in a Mizuno Head was not counterbalanced and I had to get rid of the driver just because I hated that really heavy feel. With today’s heads, I have to have counterbalanced.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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I know what counter-balancing does, just wondered if anyone had much experience with it. I recently bought a weight kit for my F7+, and put heavy weights in it. I was debating on putting a counter-balanced shaft in it since the head is heavier with the weights in it. I actually ordered a Kuro Kage hbp shaft to try, so we'll see. One way to find out!

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Counter balance shaft are great for some people. It typically is not a massive change but a tweak in the swing. IMO smoother swingers with a good transition really do good with this type of shaft. But as we all know, everyone is different and as soon as we say yup this is it for all, someone pops up and says the opposite. 👍

I would think if you added weights to make it heavier and now are looking for more weight in the butt section why not just take the weights out of the head and put back the originals?

Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg Graphite Design XC 6S GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - Makefield VS LH

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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I was fitted for a driver last summer and we went through 6 different shafts, 4 regular shafts and 2 CB. The Oban Kiyoshi Black and Tour Limited performed ever so slightly better (i.e. tighter dispersion and better carry consistency) for me than the Oban Kiyoshi HB (CB) shaft. More than anything it was about feel, similar to regular weighted vs counter balanced putters. I didn't like the feel of the HB shaft over the regular weighted shaft. I couldn't feel the club head at the top of the swing and thus my reason to go with the Oban Black. 

Cobra Connect 5 Competitor - Team Chad

  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed 10.5* w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 60 6.5 tipped 1/2" - Peacoat/Red
  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed Big Tour 3 Wood w/ Hzrdus RDX Blue 70 6.5 Tipped 1/2"
  • :cobra-small: King Radspeed Tour 5 Wood w/ Motore X F1 70 X Flex 
  • :cobra-small: King Utility 4 21* w/ Tensei Pro White 100 X Flex
  • :cobra-small: King Tour MIM Copper Irons 5-G w/ AMT White X100 Onyx
  • :cobra-small: King MIM Black Wedges 55* & 60* w/ AMT White X100 Onyx
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I’ve used cb shafts for several years now mostly the hzrdus yellow and ust helium.

the cb shafts make the club feel lighter. I seem to get my best performance in woods from them.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I struggle with CB shafts in my driver. I really like to feel the club head and always shoot for higher swingweights (D8, D9), but I know some people have a lot of success. As always, it's best to go to a fitter and try them out.

Titleist TS3 9.5* w/Accra TZ5 65 X-Stiff
Titleist TS3 15* w/Fujikura Ventus 7X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 20* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 23* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Titleist 718 CB 5 iron w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist 718 MB 6-PW w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist SM7 Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Bettinardi Queen B 10 34.5"
Titleist Pro V1 or Snell MTB-X

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5 hours ago, therod said:

My thinking is if I can put a cb shaft in and get a lighter feel, I can then add weight to the sole, getting it back to more of a standard sw and feel, yet get the benefits, even if they are minor, in forgiveness, launch, and spin.

That’s pretty much what the design of for. It allow those who want to add weight back to do so.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 8/14/2019 at 6:57 PM, McGolf said:

Counter balance shaft are great for some people. It typically is not a massive change but a tweak in the swing. IMO smoother swingers with a good transition really do good with this type of shaft. But as we all know, everyone is different and as soon as we say yup this is it for all, someone pops up and says the opposite. 👍

 

... Well said. As a smooth swinger, true counter balanced shafts are pretty much all I play in my drivers. I like a shorter driver 44.25" - 44.5" and a counter balanced shaft allows me to play a heavier head. I have played a Rogue Black Tour 110 for quite a few years and I am now playing the Tensei Orange. Counter balanced shafts provide an excellent combo of feel and added distance thanks to a heavier head. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 2:18 PM, PMookie said:

I feel a MAJOR difference between drivers that have counterbalanced shafts vs ones that don’t. One without feels VERY head-heavy, and I hate that feel! The Kuro Kage I had in a Mizuno Head was not counterbalanced and I had to get rid of the driver just because I hated that really heavy feel. With today’s heads, I have to have counterbalanced.

 

 

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I agree with you PMookie. I notice a huge difference. I am playing counterbalanced Tensei CK Orange shafts in my driver 3 wood 3, 4 hybrids now, and I can tell where the club head is throughout my whole swing. This has simply killed any slice or power fade I've had in my swing. I am now hitting draws, and hitting in the center of clubface 95% of the time consistently and getting the club face closed, when coming across the ball for my draw. I have never been able to do this before. I love the feel of the heavier head as well. I'm one of those that although not proven, I can control a heavier feeling club more, but still keep my clubhead swing speed up.

  •  SUN_MOUNTAIN_LOGO_ORANGE.jpg.a9d08a3a8868c113b375e59d107b307c.jpg C130 USA bag 
  • Driver - th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg 0811XF - Tensei Ck Orange - 65 G Stiff
  • 3 Wood - tm.jpg.b933503b8a6713406bcc109c48c76358.jpg M6 - Tensei CK Orange - 65 G Stiff
  • 19*  & 22* Hybrids -  tm.jpg.b933503b8a6713406bcc109c48c76358.jpg M6 - Tensei CK Orange - 82 G Stiff
  • Irons & Wedges- th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg 0211 5-PW, GW, SW, LW 45*. 50*, 54*, 60* - True Temper Elevate Tour 117 G Stiff
  • All wrapped in th6BYKY06U.jpg.498f835a9186e145cfd65f634529351e.jpgStandard Gray/Red Dri-Tacs
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  • Ball - tm.jpg.b933503b8a6713406bcc109c48c76358.jpg TP5
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  • I'm a righty from Mechanicsville, VA (Richmond Area)
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Is it as simple as wrapping some lead tape around the butt of the shaft?

That is what Jack used to do.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 hours ago, cnosil said:


That is what Jack used to do.

Thanks.  I'll give it a try.  I have counterbalanced my putter (with a bolt) and it works for me there.

:ping-small:G410 plus driver,:taylormade-small:Aeroburner 3W, :cobra-small:F6 Baffler 
:callaway-small:XR 4, 5 hybrids
:titleist-small:2021 T300 6 - GW, SW irons
:callaway-small: Mack Daddy CB 58/12 wedge
Axis1 Rose putter

Alternates: Srixon ZX4 MKII irons

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4 hours ago, Dr Strangelove said:

Is it as simple as wrapping some lead tape around the butt of the shaft?

 

... It is a little different counter balancing a putter you are swinging slowly and a golf club you are swinging fast. So much engineering goes into a modern shaft and fabricating a counter balance can throw off everything from balance to overall weight. The main reason for counter balancing a driver is to play it at a shorter length with more weight in the head. That said, there is certainly nothing wrong with experimenting!

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... It is a little different counter balancing a putter you are swinging slowly and a golf club you are swinging fast. So much engineering goes into a modern shaft and fabricating a counter balance can throw off everything from balance to overall weight. The main reason for counter balancing a driver is to play it at a shorter length with more weight in the head. That said, there is certainly nothing wrong with experimenting!

I may be a good candidate.  I play my driver at 44 or 43.5.  I usually have to add about 20g to the head after shortening the shaft to get the swing weight back up.

:ping-small:G410 plus driver,:taylormade-small:Aeroburner 3W, :cobra-small:F6 Baffler 
:callaway-small:XR 4, 5 hybrids
:titleist-small:2021 T300 6 - GW, SW irons
:callaway-small: Mack Daddy CB 58/12 wedge
Axis1 Rose putter

Alternates: Srixon ZX4 MKII irons

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... Keep in mind you are actually increasing the total weight of the club. It really is just tricking the swing weight scale. Now, going to a much lighter shaft and then adding lead tape to the butt and head for counterbalancing can keep overall weight where you want it. 

... I am a big believer in experimenting for fun if all it involves is adding some lead tape. The brain is just so complex and interesting. I played a Fly Z out in LA several years ago and changed to a non counter balanced shaft with the heavy 16gm weight in the rear. I hit it really well for about a month. Came back home and checked it on my swing weight scale and found it was D8!?!? Granted I was choking up 1/2" but once I found out it was much heavier than I normally play, I began spraying it all over the place. Nothing changed but my knowledge but I went from killing it to missing both right and left. We humans are strange people. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have an F7 with an X-Torsion Copper 70TX that I play regularly. I built it to see what the difference would be compared to my typical drivers with non CB shafts. I prefer a SW of D6+/- and a total weight of 330-340g. With non CB shafts, the head weight is typically around 207g. With the Copper, I had to take it to 212g to get my preferred feel. Did the extra 5g give me any yds? Not that I've noticed. However, my driver's are already optimized, so there probably isn't much to gain with tweaking.

IMHO, CB shafts have a better opportunity helping this whose drivers ARE NOT optimized. Say a player wants a slightly lighter head-feel than what they currently have. A CB shafts can give that without changing the headweight at all. Or maybe they are having issues getting the desired combination of total weight and swingweight with a standard shaft. A CB shafts will allow higher total weight without getting the SW too high.

 

BT

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I just put in play a Taylormade M6 with an X-Torsion Copper 70X. I had not tried a CB shaft until this and to be honest my numbers in testing were very good. Heading on a weekend golf trip tomorrow and should get 3 rounds in, so I will report back with on course results.

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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15 hours ago, jayjay0808 said:

I just put in play a Taylormade M6 with an X-Torsion Copper 70X. I had not tried a CB shaft until this and to be honest my numbers in testing were very good. Heading on a weekend golf trip tomorrow and should get 3 rounds in, so I will report back with on course results.

I have the same shaft with an M5. It’s awesome. It feels so smooth throughout the swing. Sometimes shafts feel stiff in the butt or tip, this one feels balanced throughout. Loving this driver setup!

Taylormade M5 Driver

Cobra F9 3 Wood

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Iron

Srixon ZX7 7-PW

Taylormade MG2 Wedges 50/55/60

Taylormade Spider X Putter

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On 9/13/2019 at 6:15 AM, jddaigneault said:

I have the same shaft with an M5. It’s awesome. It feels so smooth throughout the swing. Sometimes shafts feel stiff in the butt or tip, this one feels balanced throughout. Loving this driver setup!

So I got up for my golf trip and was smoking this thing on the range, got to the 14th hole and the shaft snapped right at the adapter, this is the second time this has happened with this driver. I contacted TM yesterday and their customer service was awesome, and offered to provide me a new driver with my number one option from my fitting which was the Tensei Pro Orange. Should be here in a few days. 

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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1 hour ago, jayjay0808 said:

So I got up for my golf trip and was smoking this thing on the range, got to the 14th hole and the shaft snapped right at the adapter, this is the second time this has happened with this driver. I contacted TM yesterday and their customer service was awesome, and offered to provide me a new driver with my number one option from my fitting which was the Tensei Pro Orange. Should be here in a few days. 

Well that’s insane. Hope that never happens to me! Hopefully no injuries!

Taylormade M5 Driver

Cobra F9 3 Wood

Srixon ZX5 4-6 Iron

Srixon ZX7 7-PW

Taylormade MG2 Wedges 50/55/60

Taylormade Spider X Putter

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18 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

Well that’s insane. Hope that never happens to me! Hopefully no injuries!

Luckily not... Was actually close to hitting my fiancée and my buddy's fiancée as they were up by the forward tees. 

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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Well let;s hope that doesn't happen to my hbp shaft either. It's a KuroKage hbp. Not sure when I'll get back out. I played a few holes last Thurs, but I hadn't played in a month and was hitting everything bad, not just the driver. When I hit it well, it launched. Unfortunately those were rare last week. Gotta get the rust knocked off and use my real swing...

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So first two range sessions with the Tensei Pro Orange and wow feels great and launch looked really good. Going to try and sneak out for a round this weekend... Fingers crossed the weather holds.

In my bag:

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Rogue ST Triple Diamond LS 10.5* (set to 9.5) UST Lin-Q Gunmetal 6f5

Wood: :titleist-small: Tsi2 15* Project X RDX Black 70 6.5

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: Cobra King Tour MIM 4-PW Dynamic Gold 120 X100

Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 3 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :titleist-small:  Pro V1x

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2 hours ago, ACslater said:

I have the Project X HZRDUS smoke yellow and I love it.  I've tried the black and I hated it.  I don't know why it works for me, but its perfect.  Its like night a day.  I can barely get the black off the ground.

The black is beefy in the middle and is very tip stiff. It is designed for aggressive high swing speed golfers. The tip is stiff to the point tour pros were having a hard time turning the ball over which led to the hzrdus red to come out which is a hzrdus black with a softer tip

the Yellow has a straight taper profile and the counterbalance works well with various head weights and golfers with smoother tempo/transitions.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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  • 5 months later...

Every time I read a posting about counterbalanced shafts they always circle back to the same thing. Adding butt weights, heavier grips. lead tape under the grips, etc.. "Jack used to do it". You guys are missing the point and that's a whole different conversation. Every time you add weight to the butt end of the shaft you are adding to the total weight of the club. Counterbalanced shafts are designed at specific weights to achieve this without increasing total weight. If you have a certain targets your trying to attain, (total weight, swing weight, MOI, etc.) counterbalanced shafts may allow you to reach those targets when standard balanced shafts cannot., My current set up is a Epic Flash SZ, 50 gram Iomic grip, and Fubuki J 59 gram X-stiff at about 45". Because the Fubuki J is very counterbalanced I was able to added about 4 grams to the head,  maintain the feel I want, and stay within the total weight perimeters that fit me best. I could not have done this with standard weight shafts. Set up works great for me. Fubuki J is more counter balanced than most I have tried and is a great shaft. Compared to a VA composites Nemesys that TXG said was their highest balance point shaft and the Fubuki was a full inch higher. 

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