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Counter balance shafts anyone?


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I am just curious if anyone has played a high balance point shaft in their driver, and what difference it made if any. I am looking at options to try something different in my F7+, and since I have never played a counter balance shaft, I'm curious to try one.

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There is a video on the TXG YouTube channel that talks about counter balanced shafts and what they do. Some of the stock shafts in the Ping G400 line have counterbalanced shafts. For me it provides nothing that I notice but I haven’t compared side by side on a launch monitor. If you want to try counter balancing, use some lead tape or get the the boccieri grip for your driver.


https://www.golfworks.com/boccieri-golf-secret-grip/p/bg0001/


Basically it adds weight to the butt end to lighted swingweight when using heavy driver heads. Supposed to make swing more consistent and faster.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I am just curious if anyone has played a high balance point shaft in their driver, and what difference it made if any. I am looking at options to try something different in my F7+, and since I have never played a counter balance shaft, I'm curious to try one.

I feel a MAJOR difference between drivers that have counterbalanced shafts vs ones that don’t. One without feels VERY head-heavy, and I hate that feel! The Kuro Kage I had in a Mizuno Head was not counterbalanced and I had to get rid of the driver just because I hated that really heavy feel. With today’s heads, I have to have counterbalanced.

 

 

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Driver: :cobra-small: King F9 Speedback, Xphlexxx Busa 2 Liquid, XX stiff, 45”

Fwy: :titelist-small: TS3, 15*, Veylix Rome 888 X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, :Fuji: Rombax 8D07HB TM27 X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4/5, Tour V 6-10, Dynamic Gold X100

Wedges: Vega VW-06 50*/54*/58*, Dynamic Gold S400

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

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I know what counter-balancing does, just wondered if anyone had much experience with it. I recently bought a weight kit for my F7+, and put heavy weights in it. I was debating on putting a counter-balanced shaft in it since the head is heavier with the weights in it. I actually ordered a Kuro Kage hbp shaft to try, so we'll see. One way to find out!

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Counter balance shaft are great for some people. It typically is not a massive change but a tweak in the swing. IMO smoother swingers with a good transition really do good with this type of shaft. But as we all know, everyone is different and as soon as we say yup this is it for all, someone pops up and says the opposite. 👍

I would think if you added weights to make it heavier and now are looking for more weight in the butt section why not just take the weights out of the head and put back the originals?

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Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg ACCRA tour Z GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - 33" 3 deg loft 70 lie, lrg slight line slightly toe hang

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

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I was fitted for a driver last summer and we went through 6 different shafts, 4 regular shafts and 2 CB. The Oban Kiyoshi Black and Tour Limited performed ever so slightly better (i.e. tighter dispersion and better carry consistency) for me than the Oban Kiyoshi HB (CB) shaft. More than anything it was about feel, similar to regular weighted vs counter balanced putters. I didn't like the feel of the HB shaft over the regular weighted shaft. I couldn't feel the club head at the top of the swing and thus my reason to go with the Oban Black. 

  • :taylormade-small: SIM 10.5* w/ Kyoshi Black 65X tipped 1/2" 
  • :cobra-small: F7+ 3W 14.5* w/ Hzrdus Black 75 6.5
  • :srixon-small: ZX Utility 18* w/ Project X 6.5
  • :callaway-small: X Forged 21* w/ Dynamic Gold X100
  • :mizuno-small: 921 SEL 5-PW w/ Dynamic Gold X100
  • :ping-small: Glide 2.0 Stealth 50*, 54* & 58* w/ AWT 2.0 
  • Toulon Vegas H7 w/ SS Flatso 2.0r
  • '20 :bridgestone-small: Tour B X
  • I'm left-handed so I don't go broke buying all new clubs every week. 
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I’ve used cb shafts for several years now mostly the hzrdus yellow and ust helium.

the cb shafts make the club feel lighter. I seem to get my best performance in woods from them.

Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I struggle with CB shafts in my driver. I really like to feel the club head and always shoot for higher swingweights (D8, D9), but I know some people have a lot of success. As always, it's best to go to a fitter and try them out.

Titleist TS3 9.5* w/Accra TZ5 65 X-Stiff
Titleist TS3 15* w/Fujikura Ventus 7X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 20* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Callaway Apex19 Hybrid 23* w/Accra TZ5 95X
Titleist 718 CB 5 iron w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist 718 MB 6-PW w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Titleist SM7 Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* w/KBS $Taper X-Stiff
Bettinardi Queen B 10 34.5"
Titleist Pro V1 or Snell MTB-X

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My thinking is if I can put a cb shaft in and get a lighter feel, I can then add weight to the sole, getting it back to more of a standard sw and feel, yet get the benefits, even if they are minor, in forgiveness, launch, and spin.

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5 hours ago, therod said:

My thinking is if I can put a cb shaft in and get a lighter feel, I can then add weight to the sole, getting it back to more of a standard sw and feel, yet get the benefits, even if they are minor, in forgiveness, launch, and spin.

That’s pretty much what the design of for. It allow those who want to add weight back to do so.

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 8/14/2019 at 6:57 PM, McGolf said:

Counter balance shaft are great for some people. It typically is not a massive change but a tweak in the swing. IMO smoother swingers with a good transition really do good with this type of shaft. But as we all know, everyone is different and as soon as we say yup this is it for all, someone pops up and says the opposite. 👍

 

... Well said. As a smooth swinger, true counter balanced shafts are pretty much all I play in my drivers. I like a shorter driver 44.25" - 44.5" and a counter balanced shaft allows me to play a heavier head. I have played a Rogue Black Tour 110 for quite a few years and I am now playing the Tensei Orange. Counter balanced shafts provide an excellent combo of feel and added distance thanks to a heavier head. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM Max ... Diamana Limited 55R
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Diamana Limited 65R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Nippon 950gh r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
                 SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33.5"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5

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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 2:18 PM, PMookie said:

I feel a MAJOR difference between drivers that have counterbalanced shafts vs ones that don’t. One without feels VERY head-heavy, and I hate that feel! The Kuro Kage I had in a Mizuno Head was not counterbalanced and I had to get rid of the driver just because I hated that really heavy feel. With today’s heads, I have to have counterbalanced.

 

 

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I agree with you PMookie. I notice a huge difference. I am playing counterbalanced Tensei CK Orange shafts in my driver 3 wood 3, 4 hybrids now, and I can tell where the club head is throughout my whole swing. This has simply killed any slice or power fade I've had in my swing. I am now hitting draws, and hitting in the center of clubface 95% of the time consistently and getting the club face closed, when coming across the ball for my draw. I have never been able to do this before. I love the feel of the heavier head as well. I'm one of those that although not proven, I can control a heavier feeling club more, but still keep my clubhead swing speed up.

  •  SUN_MOUNTAIN_LOGO_ORANGE.jpg.a9d08a3a8868c113b375e59d107b307c.jpg C130 USA bag 
  • Driver - th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg 0811XF - Tensei Ck Orange - 65 G Stiff
  • 3 Wood - tm.jpg.b933503b8a6713406bcc109c48c76358.jpg M6 - Tensei CK Orange - 65 G Stiff
  • 19*  & 22* Hybrids -  tm.jpg.b933503b8a6713406bcc109c48c76358.jpg M6 - Tensei CK Orange - 82 G Stiff
  • Irons & Wedges- th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg 0211 5-PW, GW, SW, LW 45*. 50*, 54*, 60* - True Temper Elevate Tour 117 G Stiff
  • All wrapped in th6BYKY06U.jpg.498f835a9186e145cfd65f634529351e.jpgStandard Gray/Red Dri-Tacs
  • Putter - th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg - Mustang - 33" - thSW15O8UF.jpg.640464f71a82ecf5f3ea6385b212dea0.jpg 5.0 FATSO
  • Ball - tm.jpg.b933503b8a6713406bcc109c48c76358.jpg TP5
  • Tracked with untitled.png.d513b27db44b0030705a36f1ae5b2a97.pngV2
  • I'm a righty from Mechanicsville, VA (Richmond Area)
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Is it as simple as wrapping some lead tape around the butt of the shaft?

:ping-small: G410 Plus, VA Vylyn 75 Four driver
:ping-small: G410 3 wood, :cobra-small:F6 Baffler 
:callaway-small: XR 22*, 25* hybrids
th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg 0211 1st Gen 6 - GW irons
:mizuno-small: S-18 54/12, :ping-small: Zing LW wedges
:ping-small: Sigma G Craz-E putter

Leupold GX-4i3

Penalty Box: :EVNROLL:ER7 putter, :cobra-small:F8 3 wood:srixon-small:Z565 irons,

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Is it as simple as wrapping some lead tape around the butt of the shaft?

That is what Jack used to do.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 hours ago, cnosil said:


That is what Jack used to do.

Thanks.  I'll give it a try.  I have counterbalanced my putter (with a bolt) and it works for me there.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, VA Vylyn 75 Four driver
:ping-small: G410 3 wood, :cobra-small:F6 Baffler 
:callaway-small: XR 22*, 25* hybrids
th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg 0211 1st Gen 6 - GW irons
:mizuno-small: S-18 54/12, :ping-small: Zing LW wedges
:ping-small: Sigma G Craz-E putter

Leupold GX-4i3

Penalty Box: :EVNROLL:ER7 putter, :cobra-small:F8 3 wood:srixon-small:Z565 irons,

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4 hours ago, Dr Strangelove said:

Is it as simple as wrapping some lead tape around the butt of the shaft?

 

... It is a little different counter balancing a putter you are swinging slowly and a golf club you are swinging fast. So much engineering goes into a modern shaft and fabricating a counter balance can throw off everything from balance to overall weight. The main reason for counter balancing a driver is to play it at a shorter length with more weight in the head. That said, there is certainly nothing wrong with experimenting!

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM Max ... Diamana Limited 55R
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Diamana Limited 65R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Nippon 950gh r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
                 SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33.5"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5

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1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... It is a little different counter balancing a putter you are swinging slowly and a golf club you are swinging fast. So much engineering goes into a modern shaft and fabricating a counter balance can throw off everything from balance to overall weight. The main reason for counter balancing a driver is to play it at a shorter length with more weight in the head. That said, there is certainly nothing wrong with experimenting!

I may be a good candidate.  I play my driver at 44 or 43.5.  I usually have to add about 20g to the head after shortening the shaft to get the swing weight back up.

:ping-small: G410 Plus, VA Vylyn 75 Four driver
:ping-small: G410 3 wood, :cobra-small:F6 Baffler 
:callaway-small: XR 22*, 25* hybrids
th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg 0211 1st Gen 6 - GW irons
:mizuno-small: S-18 54/12, :ping-small: Zing LW wedges
:ping-small: Sigma G Craz-E putter

Leupold GX-4i3

Penalty Box: :EVNROLL:ER7 putter, :cobra-small:F8 3 wood:srixon-small:Z565 irons,

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... Keep in mind you are actually increasing the total weight of the club. It really is just tricking the swing weight scale. Now, going to a much lighter shaft and then adding lead tape to the butt and head for counterbalancing can keep overall weight where you want it. 

... I am a big believer in experimenting for fun if all it involves is adding some lead tape. The brain is just so complex and interesting. I played a Fly Z out in LA several years ago and changed to a non counter balanced shaft with the heavy 16gm weight in the rear. I hit it really well for about a month. Came back home and checked it on my swing weight scale and found it was D8!?!? Granted I was choking up 1/2" but once I found out it was much heavier than I normally play, I began spraying it all over the place. Nothing changed but my knowledge but I went from killing it to missing both right and left. We humans are strange people. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM Max ... Diamana Limited 55R
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Diamana Limited 65R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Nippon 950gh r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
                 SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33.5"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have an F7 with an X-Torsion Copper 70TX that I play regularly. I built it to see what the difference would be compared to my typical drivers with non CB shafts. I prefer a SW of D6+/- and a total weight of 330-340g. With non CB shafts, the head weight is typically around 207g. With the Copper, I had to take it to 212g to get my preferred feel. Did the extra 5g give me any yds? Not that I've noticed. However, my driver's are already optimized, so there probably isn't much to gain with tweaking.

IMHO, CB shafts have a better opportunity helping this whose drivers ARE NOT optimized. Say a player wants a slightly lighter head-feel than what they currently have. A CB shafts can give that without changing the headweight at all. Or maybe they are having issues getting the desired combination of total weight and swingweight with a standard shaft. A CB shafts will allow higher total weight without getting the SW too high.

 

BT

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I just put in play a Taylormade M6 with an X-Torsion Copper 70X. I had not tried a CB shaft until this and to be honest my numbers in testing were very good. Heading on a weekend golf trip tomorrow and should get 3 rounds in, so I will report back with on course results.

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In my bag:

Driver: :cobra-small: Speedzone 10.5* lofted down to 9.0* Fujikura Atmos Black TS 6X

Wood: :cobra-small: Speedzone Tour Fujikura Atmos Black TS 7X

Hybrids: :cobra-small: King Utility 19.5* Diamana Tensei White Pro 90TX

Irons: :cobra-small: MIM Tour Irons 4-PW Project X 6.5

Wedges: :cobra-small: MIM Black 50*, 54*, 58* Tour Issue S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B X 

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