Water hazard behind green

[pulledabill]

Confused on how to drop when hitting in  to a water hazard behind green.  Am I dropping on the stake line if no other relief available?

[null]

Pretty good summary here

http://lindamillergolf.blogspot.com/2009/12/ask-linda-174-hazards-behind-greens.html

Quote

1. Play it as it lies in the hazard with no penalty.

2. Under penalty of one stroke:

a. Play the ball from where you hit your previous stroke.

b. Drop a ball behind the hazard (on the side further from the green) on the extension of a line that starts at the hole and passes straight through your ball and extends back to infinity.

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths and not nearer the hole than the point where your original ball crossed the margin of the hazard. (Rule 26-1 also offers the option to drop on the opposite side of the water that is the same distance from the hole as the area you established in option “c.” However, it is unlikely such a point exists for a hazard designated as “lateral” that is behind a green.)

Players should always be given at least two relief options for a ball in a water hazard. In the case of a lateral hazard behind a green, if there is no place to drop a ball within two club-lengths of where a ball crosses the margin of the hazard that is not closer to the green, and there is no place to drop on the far side of the hazard (the area may be wooded or out-of-bounds, or the water may be too wide to cross), then one or several drop areas should be provided as a relief option for players who hit into the hazard. It is not the intent of the rules to give a player no choice other than to return to the spot where he hit his previous shot and hit another ball.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

What color stake/line marks the hazard? 

[TR1PTIK]

Refer to rule 17 (https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=pe&section=rule&rulenum=17).

Under the new rules, Water Hazards have been superseded by Penalty Areas. There are different relief options depending on what color is used to identify the area - Yellow offers fewer relief options than Red. However, the new rules permit courses to mark all Penalty areas as red to eliminate confusion. 

For your situation, you are most likely looking at stroke-and-distance relief or back-on-the-line relief.

For a little more about the changes directly from the USGA: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/rules/rules-modernization/golf-new-rules/Explanation for Each Major Change in the New Rules of Golf for 2019 (1).pdf

[DaveP043]

47 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Refer to rule 17 (https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=pe&section=rule&rulenum=17).

Under the new rules, Water Hazards have been superseded by Penalty Areas. There are different relief options depending on what color is used to identify the area - Yellow offers fewer relief options than Red. However, the new rules permit courses to mark all Penalty areas as red to eliminate confusion. 

For your situation, you are most likely looking at stroke-and-distance relief or back-on-the-line relief.

For a little more about the changes directly from the USGA: https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/rules/rules-modernization/golf-new-rules/Explanation for Each Major Change in the New Rules of Golf for 2019 (1).pdf

As you mentioned, it depends on the "color" of the Penalty Area.  In my experience,  water behind a green is usually marked as a RED Penalty Area.  It might be possible to go on the other side of the water to find the "back on the line" relief, but not always.  Similarly, depending on the shape of the Penalty Area, there may be an area that satisfies the "lateral" relief requirements, but sometimes there's isn't any available lateral relief.  On some (but not all) courses, there may be a drop area available.  In some cases cases, the ONLY option is to take "stroke and distance" relief, and replay the shot.  The thing to remember is that there is no guarantee that each of the relief options is available, sometimes one or more of the choices is unavailable.  The one relief option that you ALWAYS have is stroke and distance relief.

[TR1PTIK]

17 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The one relief option that you ALWAYS have is stroke and distance relief.

This is my preferred way to take relief from penalty areas except for when there is a designated drop area. Keeps it simple and fast.

The only time I might do different is off a tee or 2nd shot on a par 5 and into a lateral penalty area where lateral relief is an option.

[RickyBobby_PR]

59 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

As you mentioned, it depends on the "color" of the Penalty Area.  In my experience,  water behind a green is usually marked as a RED Penalty Area.  It might be possible to go on the other side of the water to find the "back on the line" relief, but not always.  Similarly, depending on the shape of the Penalty Area, there may be an area that satisfies the "lateral" relief requirements, but sometimes there's isn't any available lateral relief.  On some (but not all) courses, there may be a drop area available.  In some cases cases, the ONLY option is to take "stroke and distance" relief, and replay the shot.  The thing to remember is that there is no guarantee that each of the relief options is available, sometimes one or more of the choices is unavailable.  The one relief option that you ALWAYS have is stroke and distance relief.

I play a course that has yellow stake behind the green and it’s a wooded area. Other side of the hazard has no shot to the green so stroke and distance is the best option on that one 

[DaveP043]

17 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I play a course that has yellow stake behind the green and it’s a wooded area. Other side of the hazard has no shot to the green so stroke and distance is the best option on that one 

In my mind, its unusual to see that kind of marking, but it makes sense in a way.  If it was red, people would be taking "lateral" relief even if there wasn't a legitimate relief area available.  Since its marked yellow, the don't get to even consider that option.

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

In my mind, its unusual to see that kind of marking, but it makes sense in a way.  If it was red, people would be taking "lateral" relief even if there wasn't a legitimate relief area available.  Since its marked yellow, the don't get to even consider that option.

Yeah I don’t see it often. Most yellows at courses I play are in the front of hazards going towards the hole

[TwoCoatsOfWax]

I might catch some flak for the following but I believe it's a reasonable & quick way to proceed in a casual round.  Estimate where the ball crossed the hazard line (forget the color of the line), drop as close to that as you can reasonably stand & make a swing even if it's technically a few feet closer to the pin, take your penalty, chip onto the green, and finish the hole.  Of course follow the rulebook to the letter if this is a tourney or competitive round.  But for a casual round, don't hold up the group behind you while trying to do mental rulebook calculus about color of the stakes, extension of lines behind the hazard, etc.  

[pulledabill]

Ive done that. 

[silver & black]

I'm betting most players/groups do too.

[Doc51]

Question related to this topic: Consider #15 at the Augusta National. Second shot is behind the green. 3rd shot is chipped on to the green and rolls into the water in front of the green. What are the options for the next shot? 

[Denkea]

On 6/19/2021 at 1:53 PM, Doc51 said:

Question related to this topic: Consider #15 at the Augusta National. Second shot is behind the green. 3rd shot is chipped on to the green and rolls into the water in front of the green. What are the options for the next shot? 

Pick the spot it went into the penalty area.  Draw a line from that spot to the pin and go back on that line as far as you want.  (With your example it would be back in the fairway.)

[cnosil]

On 6/19/2021 at 1:53 PM, Doc51 said:

Question related to this topic: Consider #15 at the Augusta National. Second shot is behind the green. 3rd shot is chipped on to the green and rolls into the water in front of the green. What are the options for the next shot? 

You have the same options as you have if you had come from the other direction.  Those options are listed in this thread as copied from the rules of golf. 

[GolfRules Questions]

Here is an example of a player taking penalty area relief twice, including his second drop being behind the penalty area.

[Weasel]

I played a course that has an Island Green on a Par Four. I hit my second shot onto the green and rolled off the back into the hazard. hazard marked With Yellow Stakes. What is my relief? Can I drop on fringe at point if entry or do i have to go back to fairway?

[DaveP043]

6 minutes ago, Weasel said:

I played a course that has an Island Green on a Par Four. I hit my second shot onto the green and rolled off the back into the hazard. hazard marked With Yellow Stakes. What is my relief? Can I drop on fringe at point if entry or do i have to go back to fairway?

Rule 17.1(d) says that you have 3 options for a Yellow Penalty Area:

1.  Play the ball as it lies, in the Penalty Area

2. Replay the shot (Stroke and Distance Relief)

3.  Take relief, keeping the point where the ball last entered the Penalty Area between you and the hole

So no, you may not drop on the green side of the Penalty Area.  You COULD use #3 and go further back beyond the green, if there's room, otherwise you'd have to replay the shot.  Its also possible there's a Dropping Area available as an additional option.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by DaveP043