Sluggo42 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I think so. It’s not like there are any clubs that are 10 yards longer than the rest. I think we’re down to subtle things like adjustability and twisty face things now, and that fitted shafts are the true things that’ll make a difference... I say this as I check this page daily, and it’s virtually the same for months. The irons page however has lots of changes going on... shafts too. I mean some of the new irons go so far it’s ridiculous. Shafts seems to be the thing in my mind that will be the next major development in golf. I predict someone figures out how to make a shaft “kick” the ball an extra 20 yards within the next 5 years... Maltenator and revkev 2 Quote TSr2 on tensi blue stiff Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS Reg flex Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory ER3 or, E.A.S. #4 (“Fang” or “Adele”) ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X .Org 14 cart bag Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsgbox Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Agreed. Every major manufacturer has already reached max conformity, even pushing pass the legal limit. I think continued development in maintaining forgiveness or ball speeds across the face is the next marketing ploy. This has been the season for putter shafts and golf balls. Sent from my SM-G960U using MyGolfSpy mobile app heribertomaya, Walkin and Maltenator 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltenator Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Sluggo42 said: I think so. It’s not like there are any clubs that are 10 yards longer than the rest. I think we’re down to subtle things like adjustability and twisty face things now, and that fitted shafts are the true things that’ll make a difference I agree 100% that all drivers produce about the same. I also believe 100% is you can play any driver head (from major brands not Walmart or Target drivers), put a shaft (the engine to the club) that's fitted to you, and produce the same type of numbers. To me the quantifying factor is feel, and which driver head you like the feel of and swing weight the best. Walkin and BIG STU 2 Quote C130 USA bag Driver - 0811XF - Tensei Ck Orange - 65 G Stiff 3 Wood - M6 - Tensei CK Orange - 65 G Stiff 19* & 22* Hybrids - M6 - Tensei CK Orange - 82 G Stiff Irons & Wedges- 0211 5-PW, GW, SW, LW 45*. 50*, 54*, 60* - True Temper Elevate Tour 117 G Stiff All wrapped in Standard Gray/Red Dri-Tacs Putter - - Mustang - 33" - 5.0 FATSO Ball - TP5 Tracked with V2 I'm a righty from Mechanicsville, VA (Richmond Area) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Theoretically all drivers are equal on perfect shots. There are things outside the shaft that influence and may make one driver better than another for you. Things like weight distribution, total weight, lie angle, where you miss, and the influence the look of the driver has on you swing. Some of those you can adjust and some you can’t. Shaft will help consistency and dispersion but won’t necessarily make a head that isn’t ideal for you work better. For example a lightweight XXIO driver design for slow swing speed players will not equal heavy headed weight forward head even with the optimal shaft. TR1PTIK, fixyurdivot, Maltenator and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlH Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 All drivers are equal. All swings are not. One driver will perform better for player A and fail for player B. I'd put less emphasis on the brand and more emphasis on how it performs for my swing when going with a new driver. fixyurdivot, bens197, Maltenator and 6 others 9 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Fairway: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Hybrids: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft Irons: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright Wedges: Edison 53* and 57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft Ball: Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: Pioneer...Shoes: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather My Photography can be seen at Smugmug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Maltenator said: I agree 100% that all drivers produce about the same. I also believe 100% is you can play any driver head (from major brands not Walmart or Target drivers), put a shaft (the engine to the club) that's fitted to you, and produce the same type of numbers. To me the quantifying factor is feel, and which driver head you like the feel of and swing weight the best. I don’t necessarily agree. While the shaft may supply the power thru loading/unloading it’s more of a tuning mechanism to optimize launch conditions. Getting the right loft so that launch is in the right window is more important. The shaft can then be used to tweak the launch and spin and feel. I don’t agree that any shaft can be plugged into any head. I’ve been to several fittings and something like the hzrdus yellow has worked in a few heads but didn’t work in a couple others. Same for iron shafts. Kbs $ taper worked in some heads while not so much in others. revkev, bens197, trentyoung33 and 6 others 9 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMart519 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Driver heads have varying levels of fade/draw bias which may "work" for everyone but certain players would be better served by 1 bias versus the other. Even more of an issue with high or normal spin heads versus lower spinning models. There are a few drivers that have the same stock Tensei and Project X shafts this year... Go test a few out and see if your trackman numbers are the same. I would bet the EPIC flash, M5, and G410 perform noticeably different for most people. Fitting only for shaft and ignoring head doesn't make sense. Maltenator, JohnSmalls, revkev and 1 other 4 Quote G425 MAX Driver & 5W Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i APEX CF19 6-AW INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 EAS 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Man, I’m not so sure. I’ve hit every driver on the market this year, did fittings (minimum of stock options) and saw HUGE differences. Is the CT maxed, COR as well? Probably, but we have the issue of MANUFACTURER’S TOLERANCES. Loft might be off by as much as two degrees. Weighting could be off by a few ounces, COR/CT of each head can vary (Schauffele), so I wouldn’t say they’re all equal.I saw a 4 mph gain in ball speed from the EXS vs my G400 LST. That’s a LOT for me at 112-113 mph! The M5 and M6 couldn’t stay on the planet. The G410 was so-so. Weighting in the heads is different due to if the crown is graphite, or of it’s titanium, and ball speeds high off the head will differ just because there is either graphite or titanium up there behind the strike.I was unable to get fitted and get ALL DRIVERS to show me the same numbers. Not even close, across the board. Look at the MGS testing. GREAT variances....Yes, CT and COR are generally at the limits, but all drivers are not equal....... chisag, THEZIPR23, Springveldt and 5 others 8 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I think they are close but I don't think they are equal by any means. I was gaming a rogue prior to being selected to be a tester for the flash. I picked up 10-15 yards overnight. Yes it was a newer generation driver but it shouldn't amount to that type of gain. Most manufacturers produce great drivers but IMO in order for them to be equal I should be able to hit each one the same and that simply is not the case. I think that what we are seeing is that it is easier to produce optimum launch conditions and ball speeds with all the options available. But that doesn't mean they are equals. tony@CIC, Maltenator, PMookie and 2 others 5 Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ole gray Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I think they are close but I don't think they are equal by any means. I was gaming a rogue prior to being selected to be a tester for the flash. I picked up 10-15 yards overnight. Yes it was a newer generation driver but it shouldn't amount to that type of gain. Most manufacturers produce great drivers but IMO in order for them to be equal I should be able to hit each one the same and that simply is not the case. I think that what we are seeing is that it is easier to produce optimum launch conditions and ball speeds with all the options available. But that doesn't mean they are equals. I agree partner. The Flash driver continues to amaze me! ️ cnosil and THEZIPR23 2 Quote Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 Cleveland CBX ZipCore 52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft (Platinum @ 45/78) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Love the thread but I would answer no - All drivers produced by OEMs are of reasonably good quality - I agree with that premise - but certainly not the same. Each one has its theory as to how to get to max performance which means that certain heads will work better for certain swing types. With all due respect to some of our respondents it's most certainly not all about the shaft. It's all about the entire fit and as others have accurately stated a shaft/head combo from a certain OEM for a certain player will not necessarily mean that the same shaft is ideal in the next head for that same player - You just need to be fit to get maximized. In regards to it being all about irons at this time of year here that's because they are what are being released and tested at this point. Drivers came out at the end of last season, the beginning of this one. In fact MGS called this the year of the driver early on and from everything our Most Wanted Testers have said and I've seen I have little doubt that they were right. This was one of those year's when most OEM's offered heads that increased launch and reduced spin - the prescription for more distance. If anything you could argue that it is irons that change the least - the advent of Player's Distance Irons over the last few years has been intriguing but other than that there really has been very little new to look at over the past 10 years or so. Granted there has been a move this year by some OEM's to make their GI irons a bit more compact and visually appealing. But I'm not quite sure how successful they've been. At least for me I found that I hit my G30 irons much better than the G410. BIG STU, THEZIPR23, tony@CIC and 5 others 8 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluggo42 Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 5 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said: I think they are close but I don't think they are equal by any means. I was gaming a rogue prior to being selected to be a tester for the flash. I picked up 10-15 yards overnight. Yes it was a newer generation driver but it shouldn't amount to that type of gain. Most manufacturers produce great drivers but IMO in order for them to be equal I should be able to hit each one the same and that simply is not the case. I think that what we are seeing is that it is easier to produce optimum launch conditions and ball speeds with all the options available. But that doesn't mean they are equals. 10-15 yards overnight! So was the older Rogue a fitted driver? Because the Rogue isn’t a short club. Was the Flash off the shelf? Or customer fit with aftermarket shaft? So something happened, because I don’t think that with all other things be equal, the flash is going to outgain the Rogue by that kind of distance. But, if both were equal and the Flash crushes the Rogue like that, I guess I better go get me one, and hang up the LST, as it’s about 2 years old now. but seriously, I don’t see that gain coming from two (off the shelf) clubs, right? BIG STU 1 Quote TSr2 on tensi blue stiff Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS Reg flex Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory ER3 or, E.A.S. #4 (“Fang” or “Adele”) ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X .Org 14 cart bag Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Sluggo42 said: 10-15 yards overnight! So was the older Rogue a fitted driver? Because the Rogue isn’t a short club. Was the Flash off the shelf? Or customer fit with aftermarket shaft? So something happened, because I don’t think that with all other things be equal, the flash is going to outgain the Rogue by that kind of distance. But, if both were equal and the Flash crushes the Rogue like that, I guess I better go get me one, and hang up the LST, as it’s about 2 years old now. but seriously, I don’t see that gain coming from two (off the shelf) clubs, right? Rogue was fitted at club champion. Flash was fitted with local pro. It blew my mind. If you haven’t read review, check it out. I wasn’t only one that saw increases like that. yungkory and ole gray 2 Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Sluggo42 said: 10-15 yards overnight! So was the older Rogue a fitted driver? Because the Rogue isn’t a short club. Was the Flash off the shelf? Or customer fit with aftermarket shaft? So something happened, because I don’t think that with all other things be equal, the flash is going to outgain the Rogue by that kind of distance. But, if both were equal and the Flash crushes the Rogue like that, I guess I better go get me one, and hang up the LST, as it’s about 2 years old now. but seriously, I don’t see that gain coming from two (off the shelf) clubs, right? 2 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said: Rogue was fitted at club champion. Flash was fitted with local pro. It blew my mind. If you haven’t read review, check it out. I wasn’t only one that saw increases like that. I didn't have much Arccos data from my TS2, but that was mostly because Flash was so much better. More consistent distance, and my longest drives were at least 10y longer -- so I had to put it straight into the bag. As I said in my review, the Smoke in my TS2 was a bad fit for me, but on mishits Flash feels like I get more out of it. ole gray and THEZIPR23 2 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 So does the gain between your prior drivers and this year's flash speak more to a better fitting this time around or the club? It does seem like this year's iteration of drivers have greater adjustability and also a wider range of shaft selections at no upcharge. The proper head (setting as well) plus the proper shaft could net 15 yards without a doubt. We are certainly at an time where driver fitting is essential. There are so many choices and so much adjustability that one needs to maximize what he or she has. If you don't believe it just take your driver and adjust it to its maximums in either directions - you will see huge differences in results there and that's without changing shafts. cnosil, PMookie, Maltenator and 2 others 5 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 8 hours ago, yungkory said: I didn't have much Arccos data from my TS2, but that was mostly because Flash was so much better. More consistent distance, and my longest drives were at least 10y longer -- so I had to put it straight into the bag. As I said in my review, the Smoke in my TS2 was a bad fit for me, but on mishits Flash feels like I get more out of it. So we are talking gains in total yards right and not carry? what was the ball speed between the two? What were your launch angle, spin and descent angles? Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 There are so many variables to this that it is hard to determine what would create the gains. As I stated in my original post do the heads differ in weight, is there more forgiveness where the player mishits, are the shafts the same weight, are the shafts the same length, does the club change how you swing? I would expect to see more variation club to club if you simply go off the rack. The gap would narrow if you start looking at fitted shafts. From my own recent experiments with some driver shafts, I saw a 15 yard gain in carry. Multiple reasons mostly attributed to changing angle of attach from slightly down/level to 1.5 up, and 1 1/4 shorter shaft length and more efficient strokes. Now if I can find a shaft that helps me get the an upward angle of attack I will see better results. I personally went from 250ish with poor efficiency to 265+ with better efficiency. PMookie, Springveldt and THEZIPR23 3 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 4 hours ago, revkev said: So does the gain between your prior drivers and this year's flash speak more to a better fitting this time around or the club? It does seem like this year's iteration of drivers have greater adjustability and also a wider range of shaft selections at no upcharge. The proper head (setting as well) plus the proper shaft could net 15 yards without a doubt. We are certainly at an time where driver fitting is essential. There are so many choices and so much adjustability that one needs to maximize what he or she has. If you don't believe it just take your driver and adjust it to its maximums in either directions - you will see huge differences in results there and that's without changing shafts. I went to a lighter shaft that I was able to increase CHS with and decrease dispersion. Prior to the flash a light shaft did not equate to dispersion results that were acceptable. Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: So we are talking gains in total yards right and not carry? what was the ball speed between the two? What were your launch angle, spin and descent angles? Total distance as seen on Arccos, and being closer to greens than I ever have been at my "home" course. Don't remember all of my LM data from the fitting. SS was up from TS2 from a better fitting shaft alone, but as I mentioned, Flash still seems to do better across the face than TS2 did. PMookie 1 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 8/22/2019 at 7:53 PM, revkev said: Love the thread but I would answer no - All drivers produced by OEMs are of reasonably good quality - I agree with that premise - but certainly not the same. Each one has its theory as to how to get to max performance which means that certain heads will work better for certain swing types. With all due respect to some of our respondents it's most certainly not all about the shaft. It's all about the entire fit and as others have accurately stated a shaft/head combo from a certain OEM for a certain player will not necessarily mean that the same shaft is ideal in the next head for that same player - You just need to be fit to get maximized. In regards to it being all about irons at this time of year here that's because they are what are being released and tested at this point. Drivers came out at the end of last season, the beginning of this one. In fact MGS called this the year of the driver early on and from everything our Most Wanted Testers have said and I've seen I have little doubt that they were right. This was one of those year's when most OEM's offered heads that increased launch and reduced spin - the prescription for more distance. If anything you could argue that it is irons that change the least - the advent of Player's Distance Irons over the last few years has been intriguing but other than that there really has been very little new to look at over the past 10 years or so. Granted there has been a move this year by some OEM's to make their GI irons a bit more compact and visually appealing. But I'm not quite sure how successful they've been. At least for me I found that I hit my G30 irons much better than the G410. Dead on it Rev Quote Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 On 8/22/2019 at 9:28 PM, Sluggo42 said: 10-15 yards overnight! So was the older Rogue a fitted driver? Because the Rogue isn’t a short club. Was the Flash off the shelf? Or customer fit with aftermarket shaft? So something happened, because I don’t think that with all other things be equal, the flash is going to outgain the Rogue by that kind of distance. But, if both were equal and the Flash crushes the Rogue like that, I guess I better go get me one, and hang up the LST, as it’s about 2 years old now. but seriously, I don’t see that gain coming from two (off the shelf) clubs, right? Kinda like Rev and others have said just depends. For me I am still gaming my Homna over my 915 D-2. I hit a cut by design and the Homna does not have as bad of sidespin for me as the 915. We have proved that on the launch monitor. Now with the Homna if I do catch it in the toe some I can get a wicked rolling hook but that is rare for me. On the other hand if I catch the 915 in the toe it goes pretty straight and rolls like a freight train. But a toe hit hook is rare for me. Now I will add both of those drivers have off the shelf shafts but both have been tuned frequency wise and the heads have been tuned weight wise and placement wise. I have put the Homna against some of the newer drivers on the machine at PGASS. those new drivers did have stock shafts. Of course the one guy at PGASS figured out my driver had been tweaked and tuned some. Played with a guy today that is a club tinkerer himself. He had an older Cally X-1. He had a couple shafts he was experimenting with. I do remember the one shaft was a Project x and I can not recall what the other one was but he hit it well. now that Cally X-1 is about a 3 year old head but he was bombing it out there in the fairway straight around 280 290 or so. Like I told him that X-1 head IMHO is one of the best heads Cally made. I have messed with that head some and liked it. Was actually going to buy a used demo one from my course but got to messing with the 915 and then the Homna. But like I say different strokes for different folks revkev and Kenny B 2 Quote Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamachi Style Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 I think yes, they are all more similar than different. The distinctions are subtle, but they are enough for it still to be worth while to try a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellairemi Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 My G25 driver stays in my bag not because I am cheap (well, I am) but because none of the new drivers have outperformed it. Fitter this spring just shook his head after seeing my initial numbers with the G25 and said that will be hard to beat. Forty-five minutes and a bunch of combinations later, he threw in the towel. Part of it is just familiarity I am sure but I just do not think driver tech has improved much in 6 years (at for my swing, which is not particularly high spin). PMookie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 ... Interesting premise. It is true and it is false at the same time. Some golfers will hit the same drives regardless of which driver they try. Others can find 10-15 yds or more difference. Take 20 golfers at a demo day and let them hit every driver with multiple shafts and you will have different players hitting a given driver better than others. Every OEM will have a driver someone hits best. Difference in trajectory, spin, sound, feel and look can influence anyone's swing. And then the placebo phenomenon of hitting driver A well and driver B/C/D poorly can change your attitude about those drivers even of they fit you perfectly. ... Lastly I would add that when I switched from a Cobra F9 10.5* to a 9* I gained a good 10 yards or more. Reduced spin and a more shallow descent contributed to the extra distance. edingc, golfertrb, BIG STU and 3 others 6 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 54 minutes ago, chisag said: ... Interesting premise. It is true and it is false at the same time. Some golfers will hit the same drives regardless of which driver they try. Others can find 10-15 yds or more difference. Take 20 golfers at a demo day and let them hit every driver with multiple shafts and you will have different players hitting a given driver better than others. Every OEM will have a driver someone hits best. Difference in trajectory, spin, sound, feel and look can influence anyone's swing. And then the placebo phenomenon of hitting driver A well and driver B/C/D poorly can change your attitude about those drivers even of they fit you perfectly. ... Lastly I would add that when I switched from a Cobra F9 10.5* to a 9* I gained a good 10 yards or more. Reduced spin and a more shallow descent contributed to the extra distance. A properly fit driver in the last 3-5 years of not further back on center face contact will net minimal gains. Some gains in either distance and/or dispersion can be seen on off center hits thanks to improving technology on the use of materials and moving weight around. Some of that distance will come from better ball speeds but as the usga and r&a start enforcing the ct testing across the face those gains are going to be less Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisag Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said: A properly fit driver in the last 3-5 years of not further back on center face contact will net minimal gains. Some gains in either distance and/or dispersion can be seen on off center hits thanks to improving technology on the use of materials and moving weight around. Some of that distance will come from better ball speeds but as the usga and r&a start enforcing the ct testing across the face those gains are going to be less ... While I agree and think everyone would benefit from a professional fitting, how many players have "properly fit drivers"? Dead center will produce different trajectory and spin for any given golfer. In my case an additional 10 yds just by switching heads, not even a different driver. And then of course some drivers perform better with heel shots, toe shots and high or low shots. My miss is high but rarely low and the F9 really excels with high on the face shots. Someone who's miss is low would probably do better with a different driver. PMookie, cnosil, THEZIPR23 and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R Fairway: Qi10 5 wood ... Kai'li Blue 60R Hybrids: 430 Hybrid 22*... Diamana LTD 65r DHy #4 ... Steelfiber 780Hy Irons: '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r Wedges: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r Putter: Sport-60 33" Ball: Maxfli/ Maxfli Tour/TP5x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 57 minutes ago, chisag said: ... While I agree and think everyone would benefit from a professional fitting, how many players have "properly fit drivers"? Dead center will produce different trajectory and spin for any given golfer. In my case an additional 10 yds just by switching heads, not even a different driver. And then of course some drivers perform better with heel shots, toe shots and high or low shots. My miss is high but rarely low and the F9 really excels with high on the face shots. Someone who's miss is low would probably do better with a different driver. Switching heads I’m guessing you are referring to loft since something like a ts2 to ts3 would be a different driver. Even so different lofts is a different driver. But that also gets to a proper fit driver. The number of golfers vs the ones that are properly fit it even have more than a quick session in a big box store are is most of the golfin public. It’s why distance is the main marketing point. Find some added speed on off center face and sell some clubs. chisag 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said: A properly fit driver in the last 3-5 years of not further back on center face contact will net minimal gains. Epic Flash. Rogue properly fit. 14 yards gained on “center Hits”. 21 yards gained on “off center hits” Huge difference between drivers. I would imagine I could hit other heads and the results will be different as well. I know that the rogue was properly fit at the time, when I went through a fitting at club champion there was nothing he could put together that would beat the results I was seeing. My guess is that the Flash was not properly fit as it was the only shaft I tried before LM went out. It could have been just a lucky guess by fitter but chances are there are a few more yards in there. Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I think there are tiers. But any driver head fitted properly probably doesn't make much difference within a tier.Take Dead Aim Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post revkev Posted August 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 27, 2019 Guys we don't need to keep writing, "I think" or "I feel." There are plenty enough studies to suggest that driver heads and shafts perform differently for different players. Really that's an established fact which goes beyond personal opinion - they are different - Most are good - that's an established fact, too - the question is always who are they good for and what good combination will work best for your swing. Further the difference between drivers is going to be far greater in the hands of a guy whose SS is 110 than a guy whose SS is 95 than a guy whose SS is 80. So that could easily be why we have some differing opinions here but the opinions aren't necessarily based on fact. As for the outlier who states that the G25 is at least equal too any current driver/head combo for him - that's possible too - it may be that the combo that he had for himself in that particular head was/is still the best one for his swing. Ironically we had a test on MGS where the G30 proved to be a significant jump in technology over the G25 for most golfers - the G30 was a Most Wanted Driver one year in fact. It wasn't the best driver for everyone that year however. All drivers are not the same - they are different, they will produce different results - yes there is a COR limit on center hits but what about launch angle and spin rates? There are charts that show that the same ball speed will produce radically different results based on launch angle and spin rate. As Chisag wrote the way a driver looks, feels and sounds might impact how a person swings it. That will produce different results. It's okay that the best driver for me is often some type of Ping because their design theory fits my swing - while Callaway works best for you. It doesn't make Ping better than Callaway or any other OEM. It just does make it better for me (with driver) and since I've had success with that brand I'm likely to swing their drivers with confidence. BIG STU, GregB135, Will_Mac and 10 others 13 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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