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All drivers equal nowadays?


Sluggo42

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Waiting for @jlukesto weigh in... but he's probably out at the range with his G410. 😉  I'd say they are really close at this point and, as several have pointed out, it has become more of a swing match/shaft match that separates one from the other as better.  

:ping-small: G410 Plus, 9 Degree Driver 

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 16 Degree 3w

:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

:EVNROLL: ER5v Putter  (Evnroll ER5v Official Review)

:odyssey-small: AI-One Milled Seven T CH (Currently Under Product Test)

 

 

 

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I'd have to say all drivers are far from equal.  Are there any bad drivers made by major OEMs?  Not at all.  Every driver has a place and fit.  Some drivers will fit a larger subset of people (see MGS Most wanted results), while others maximize results for only a small percentage of golfers.

As @chisag mentioned, even the same head performs differently in different lofts. To say all drivers are equal is simply not true.

One quick glance at the Mygolfspy 2019 Driver Center of Gravity and MOI report should tell you that all drivers are not equal

https://mygolfspy.com/2019-driver-center-of-gravity-and-moi-report/

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23 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Waiting for @jlukesto weigh in... but he's probably out at the range with his G410. 😉  I'd say they are really close at this point and, as several have pointed out, it has become more of a swing match/shaft match that separates one from the other as better.  

Heading to the range in about 30 minutes 🙂

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23 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

as several have pointed out, it has become more of a swing match/shaft match that separates one from the other as better.  

Couldn't agree more, especially as heads have universal tolerances and rules whereas shafts only need to adhere to some looser rules and guidelines.

Driver     Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs)  
4 Wood   Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+  :callaway-small: Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex

Hybrid     Titleist 910H 19*    :titelist-small:   Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S'

Irons         Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW   :mizuno-small:  N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S'

Wedges    Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54*  :callaway-small:   KBS Tour in 'R'

Putter        'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5"

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But it does seem pretty universally agreed upon, that the biggest differences or gains, come from a fitting, and a shaft.

i wonder, has anyone gotten deeply fitted with different heads and found much difference?

say a epic head and a billion dollar shaft, and then a f9 head, with a truly custom fit, and come up with a mega difference?

not like Chisag gaining 10 yards with a different loft of the same head, because a truly custom fit should have identified that the first time around right?

 

:titleist-small: TSr2 on tensi blue stiff

:cobra-small: Speedzone 3-wood on Tensi blue S

:callaway-logo-1: Epic Max 5 and 7 woods on HZRDUS  Reg flex

:callaway-logo-1: Paradym 9 wood on HZRDUS reg flex

:taylormade-small: P770 / P790 combo set on Ventus R-6 shafts 6-AW

:mizuno-small:  T22 Denim Copper 54°, 58° on Kinetic X Trajectory 

:EVNROLL: ER3 or,

:edel-golf-1: E.A.S. #4   (“Fang” or “Adele”)
 

:titelist-small: ProV1x, or, Maxfli Tour X

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 , or Sketcher shoes

 

 

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10 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

But it does seem pretty universally agreed upon, that the biggest differences or gains, come from a fitting, and a shaft.

i wonder, has anyone gotten deeply fitted with different heads and found much difference?

say a epic head and a billion dollar shaft, and then a f9 head, with a truly custom fit, and come up with a mega difference?

not like Chisag gaining 10 yards with a different loft of the same head, because a truly custom fit should have identified that the first time around right?

 

... Keep in mind the F9 difference is not just loft. Compare the 10.5* to the Epic and the 9* to the Sub Zero because they are different heads with different weighting and launch properties. And yes, a custom fit would have made that obvious but I got mine from Cobra well before they were released and had to pick one without hitting it.  

Edited by chisag

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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10 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

But it does seem pretty universally agreed upon, that the biggest differences or gains, come from a fitting, and a shaft.

i wonder, has anyone gotten deeply fitted with different heads and found much difference?

say a epic head and a billion dollar shaft, and then a f9 head, with a truly custom fit, and come up with a mega difference?

not like Chisag gaining 10 yards with a different loft of the same head, because a truly custom fit should have identified that the first time around right?

You're really underestimating the differences. The first step any reputable fitter will take in a fitting is to identify the optimal head. 

Again look at the MGS article around center of gravity and moi to see just how different heads are. Sure, there are heads that are more similar to others, but for the most part they're all unique 

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On 8/23/2019 at 2:28 AM, Sluggo42 said:

10-15 yards overnight! So was the older Rogue a fitted driver? Because the Rogue isn’t a short club. Was the Flash off the shelf? Or customer fit with aftermarket shaft? So something happened, because I don’t think that with all other things be equal,  the flash is going to outgain the Rogue by that kind of distance.

But, if both were equal and the Flash crushes the Rogue like that, I guess I better go get me one, and hang up the LST, as it’s about 2 years old now.

but seriously, I don’t see that gain coming from two (off the shelf) clubs, right?

If you haven't hit the Flash, go do so. The same thing happened to me the other day when I finally went and tested this years drivers.

I'm an avid YouTube watcher and I was under the impression that all drivers are basically equal after watching all the reviews and comparisons, there is nothing between them usually. Problem is, the guys doing the reviews are Pro's and their swings are very, very good. Us hackers and duffers have swings that work for one thing and not for another.

I went to a local big box store (American Golf) and hit just about every newer driver out there. Before I went in I warmed up with a few swings of my SuperSpeed sticks to make sure my own driver got a fair crack of the whip.

Started with my own driver, launching too high and spinning too much as expected. (2016 M1 10.5 lowered to 9 with Atmos Black stiff shaft). Dispersion was OK, all the misses to the right as I'm trying to play a fade.

Hit the Flash Sub Zero at 9 with the Hzrdus Smoke 6.0. Bombed everything down the middle. 11 drives with the biggest miss being 5 yards left. The dispersion on screen was the size of a thimble compared to the M1. 15 yards of carry with even the 2 heel strikes being the same distance as my good ones with the M1.

Tried the Rogue Sub Zero at 9 with the Even Flow Blue. Was all over the place, massive misses left and right. Changed to the Hzrdus Smoke and started hitting everything on line but was about 10 yards down on the Flash on good hits and nearly 17 yards on miss hits.

I then tried the Ping G410 (not a fair test as they only had it in 10.5), M6 in 9 and Cobra F9 in 9 and nothing came close to that Flash.

At the end I hit another 5 with the Flash just to check and I got the same results. It was at least 8 yards longer on carry to anything else and the dispersion was ridiculous.

I'm now booked in next Tuesday to another shop (an actual Callaway fitting day at a range close to me) to rule out any nefarious going ons at AG as with each club the guy changed the colours and I don't know if he changed any other settings. For all I know he was maybe on a bonus to sell more Flash drivers. 😉 

I now feel like a fool for not trying these out early as the season is just about over and I'm trying to resist the urge to buy a Flash Sub Zero even although it will likely go down in price when Callaway inevitably release a new club in a few months.

So for me, all drivers where certainly not equal.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/22/2019 at 10:02 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t necessarily agree. While the shaft may supply the power thru loading/unloading it’s more of a tuning mechanism to optimize launch conditions. Getting the right loft so that launch is in the right window is more important. The shaft can then be used to tweak the launch and spin and feel. 

I don’t agree that any shaft can be plugged into any head. I’ve been to several fittings and something like the hzrdus yellow has worked in a few heads but didn’t work in a couple others. Same for iron shafts. Kbs $ taper worked in some heads while not so much in others. 

Completely agree with you. As you said, the shaft plays a part in optimizing the spin, but you definitely can't put it into any head. In my driver fitting recently, I had to move to a different driver head instead of replacing the shaft because I needed a head with a forward weight. The only three drivers that I could get my spin numbers optimal, even with a very low spin shaft, were the Epic Flash SZ, Cobra F9 (weight forward), and the Ping G410 LST.

Shaft is important, but there are still differences between driver heads.

Driver:     image.png.4b2e2de291c6e3e8a5ad94e9f2919ba6.png Mavrik SZ - GD XC-7X

3 Wood:   image.png.fa4b3f2cf297aab0430b504772faa7d2.png Taylormade SIM - GD AD-DI 7X

Hybrids:  image.png.4b2e2de291c6e3e8a5ad94e9f2919ba6.png Apex 20* - GD AD-DI 95X

Irons:      image.png.4b2e2de291c6e3e8a5ad94e9f2919ba6.png  Apex Pro '19 - DG X100 4-PW

Wedges: image.png.4554f4063a75fadd669e2b2fd26101d8.png SM7

Putter:     Spider X Chalk

Ball:         ProV1

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/23/2019 at 3:21 PM, BaldnBroke said:

Yep all drivers are created equal...

Except for the launch angles, the weight, the face shape, the head shape, the balance, the look, the sound, the feel.

Apart from those things, they are all identical.

Sent from my Power using Tapatalk
 

Haha. I would say it this way. All drivers have the potential to be equal in performance if someone has the time, money, and help to optimize them. If you do not have the time money, or access to knowledge then, it is a bit more of a crap shoot as to which driver will be best. 

 

 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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16 minutes ago, Quigleyd said:

Haha. I would say it this way. All drivers have the potential to be equal in performance if someone has the time, money, and help to optimize them. If you do not have the time money, or access to knowledge then, it is a bit more of a crap shoot as to which driver will be best. 

 

 

When I went for a fitting earlier this year there was a world of difference between drivers - primarily in dispersion then yardage and that was trying different shafts and settings. I tried hard to "fit" into a F-9 - but it just didn't work for me. The 410 was hands down best. I'll bet for others it's the Flash, etc. etc. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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5 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

When I went for a fitting earlier this year there was a world of difference between drivers - primarily in dispersion then yardage and that was trying different shafts and settings. I tried hard to "fit" into a F-9 - but it just didn't work for me. The 410 was hands down best. I'll bet for others it's the Flash, etc. etc. 

I agree with this. I settled on the epic fash SZ after trying everything as well. Is it yards and yards better than anything else? No, but it was enough better for me. I would guess that is similar to you. Was the G410 20 yards longer than the F9? Probably not. It was just enough better to make you go with it. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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3 hours ago, Quigleyd said:

I agree with this. I settled on the epic fash SZ after trying everything as well. Is it yards and yards better than anything else? No, but it was enough better for me. I would guess that is similar to you. Was the G410 20 yards longer than the F9? Probably not. It was just enough better to make you go with it. 

Correct I didn't pick up 20 yds. But the dispersion was spot on for me.  

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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Just now, tony@CIC said:

Correct I didn't pick up 20 yds. But the dispersion was spot on for me.  

Yeah, it is not always about distance. Many, including myself forget that at times.

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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