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Is seeing distance a golf skill?


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Seeing Yardage  

298 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you currently use some kind of distance device?

    • Every round
      220
    • Often
      30
    • Occasionally
      24
    • Never
      24
  2. 2. Should properly estimating distance be considered a golf skill?

    • Yes: I don't use distance devices and think they are counter to the spirit of the game.
      18
    • Yes: I use distance devices, but think that golf without them is a purer version of the sport.
      58
    • Sometimes: eliminate yardage books and continue to ban devices on Tour, but keep them for amateurs.
      41
    • No: hitting the shot is the challenge of golf, not getting the yardage.
      181


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Over in the Precision Pro NX9 HD review thread, I've noted that the MGS Lab had need of my snazzy new range finder. During its absence, I initially pulled out my old generic range finder—until it fell out of its case somewhere on the course, so that I haven't seen it since. For a couple of rounds, I've done something I dislike: used the Game Golf app in conjunction with my Game Golf Live so that I can get the GPS yardage. (I dislike it it because it tempts me to start fiddling with the shot plotting, penalties, etc. during the round, which is bad for my focus.)

This past week, I did something unusual: I played courses other than the one course I play over and over again. I was traveling and played two courses I hadn't before. And I've learned that, absent any kind of gadget, I'm terrible at estimating distances.

Which got me thinking: isn't seeing distance part of the skill of this game? As I've dabbled in seeking a better grasp of course architecture, there are holes whose design purposefully seeks to subvert the golfer's perception of yardage. Range finders, GPS devices, and yardage books all eliminate that skill from the game.

So what's your take? If you could get away with it, would you pull up all the yardage stakes on the course and see who is really good at judging their shots? Or is knowing the yardage just a piece of data that should be readily accessible to everyone, to see if they have the skill to hit the shots?

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Absolutely! And you can learn it. Here’s what you do.

Guess your yardage first, then use your rangefinder to check your guess. You’ll get better and better. I started doing that 2-3 years ago, and at first I was pretty bad. Now I’ve gotten pretty good at it. Usually within a few yards. Sometimes a little off, and sometimes spot on. Hills and valleys in between make it more difficult, but not impossible.

First step to learning it is getting real comfortable with what 10 yards looks like so you can add it up from a distance.


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I only use a free GPS app on my phone. I never bother with it on my home course. If the course I'm playing is marked well enough as to know 200 - 100 yds. from the fairway, I usually don't bother. I figure if I can't get at least close by now, It doesn't matter if I know the yardage from my ball to the Crow on the left side of the green.😎

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Currently I use the 18 Birdies app for GPS distance, but I verify with what my eyeball estimate says. My eyeball estimate method is pretty solid, as long as the markers on course are accurate (150/100 post, sprinkler head, etc). I look for my nearest marker, gauge my distance from there. Add 7 for a back pin, subtract 7 for a front (most greens are about 30 yards deep - take 1/2 of 1/2 to play to the front or back center). Then add or subtract your wind and slope estimates.

Here's a related story. Playing in a scramble on a course I'd never seen. One playing partner had a laser, and while he was lining up the laser, I'd figure out my estimate. Usually before he got his yardage, I'd say "I've got xxx, what did you get". The worst difference I got on any shot was about 5 yards (and that one was uphill).

Lately, when making my strategy card for a new course I'll add in some landmarked distance notes to help gauge on the course.

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If you know your course, play it all the time, you can estimate the yardage well enough to play decent golf.  I've forgotten my GPS a few times, and my wife has the laser, but I can still score about the same without anything... well except for the red, white and blue markers in the middle of the fairway.  lol

However, I've played courses where I guess the yardage, then check my GPS and I am waaaay off.  Certain terrains and shades of lighting on the course greatly influences my ability to get an accurate number.  Playing without devices will greatly slow down play more than it already is.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Absolutely yes. Any of you guys here grow up using these?

IMG_9385.JPG

It’s absolutely a skill and personally, I preferred using these to any yardage tools in college. Call it stubborn but there is something fun about estimating your distances not just from the fairway but also how deep pins are set.

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I use a GPS app on my phone but for years I used the yardage markers on the course or just guestimated the distance.  I still like to try to eyeball the yardage and see how close I can get to being right, even though I always use the GPS app on my phone.

I do think it is a skill and its kind of fun when Im playing with strangers to guess the distance and be right more often than not.

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21 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Absolutely yes. Any of you guys here grow up using these?

IMG_9385.JPG

It’s absolutely a skill and personally, I preferred using these to any yardage tools in college. Call it stubborn but there is something fun about estimating your distances not just from the fairway but also how deep pins are set.
 

A course I played in Albuquerque has small bushes just off the fairway as the 150 indicator.  Those stakes you can pull out... those bushes are, well...  obstacles.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I definitely believe seeing the distance is a skill associated with the game. What I’ve found is that playing a course I know well is pretty easy without a DMD. Playing courses that I’ve never played without one is almost impossible. My depth perception is linked to my memory of other shots and distances I had on course. If you just give me barren land with a pin, with no recognizable landmarks, it’s hopeless. That said, the challenge of golf is just hitting the shot, not getting the yardage. The yardage is a measurement that should be available at all times, to see who can actually execute shots.    

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Use the GPS app on my garmin running watch, not so much for estimating but I feel like it helps to speed up play to get a relative distance to the center so I can easily pick the club vs trying to estimate distance to markers

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And just to add one more thing. Any decent golfer has a relative idea of how far they are from their target.

As an example, if I’m 150 out, depending on the wind it’s either a 9 or a wedge. The distances are nice to specify but there is a certain paralysis by analysis when it comes to dialing a yardage when most folks can’t consistently hit their yardages.


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14 hours ago, bens197 said:

Absolutely yes. Any of you guys here grow up using these?

IMG_9385.JPG

It’s absolutely a skill and personally, I preferred using these to any yardage tools in college. Call it stubborn but there is something fun about estimating your distances not just from the fairway but also how deep pins are set.
 

Edited above to make my point. With the GPS's you get static front/middle/back which don't really take into account pin locations for most of the companies, and that's fine. Again, after playing for some time you kinda just get a feel for it. I do play with a lot of guys who have distance devices and like others I can usually guesstimate the yardage within 2-5 yards most times.

The other issue I have is that trusting one of those takes away your instincts for your own game and how you are playing. Taking a static number isn't helpful in that regard. You aren't counting for wind, lie, slope any of that.

For example, here's the spiel I normally give myself when coming up on a shot "Ok, looks like around 145ish to the green, lie could catch a flyer, we're going slightly uphill, and wind is slightly into. Long isn't bad so play for 155. Stock 8." Take about 20-30 seconds to make a decision and go. Don't overthink, just do.

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I'm terrible at estimating yardages so having a DMD has been great.  Now, if I could only HIT those distances consistently, I'd really be having more fun!  The downside is, sometimes I focus on the number too much and forget to swing!

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From my experience, being able to accurately determine distance by sight is a gift that simply is not granted to everyone. My dad can often guess approach yardages within 5 yards while I might be off by as much as 10 or 20.

Hypothetically speaking, if you were to remove rangerfinders and similar devices from golfers, we'd all likely be walking off yardages, or begin racking up substantially more strokes.

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Edited above to make my point. With the GPS's you get static front/middle/back which don't really take into account pin locations for most of the companies, and that's fine. Again, after playing for some time you kinda just get a feel for it. I do play with a lot of guys who have distance devices and like others I can usually guesstimate the yardage within 2-5 yards most times.
The other issue I have is that trusting one of those takes away your instincts for your own game and how you are playing. Taking a static number isn't helpful in that regard. You aren't counting for wind, lie, slope any of that.
For example, here's the spiel I normally give myself when coming up on a shot "Ok, looks like around 145ish to the green, lie could catch a flyer, we're going slightly uphill, and wind is slightly into. Long isn't bad so play for 155. Stock 8." Take about 20-30 seconds to make a decision and go. Don't overthink, just do.


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While I feel that it is a skill in the game, I don't see the reason to eliminate devices that give us distances.

Courses generally always have some indicators of distance to the center of the green, and at times have even more yardages marked out on sprinkler heads, or other signage. 

I agree with other posters that the benefit of DMD's is in speeding up play. Eliminating them from play will cause everyone to walk off distances even if they are good at estimating distance with their eyes. 

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Being able to estimate a distances on the golf course is most definitely a golf skill and an important one to have to play well. I think range finders and gps are a crutch and are just another example of golf being too much about technology.

What happens when a new range finder is released that has the ability to be pointed at a green, it reads the break for the player and then displays the optimal line of the putt on the screen? Is that when it’s going to be too much?


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3 hours ago, Berg Ryman said:

Edited above to make my point. With the GPS's you get static front/middle/back which don't really take into account pin locations for most of the companies, and that's fine. Again, after playing for some time you kinda just get a feel for it. I do play with a lot of guys who have distance devices and like others I can usually guesstimate the yardage within 2-5 yards most times.

The other issue I have is that trusting one of those takes away your instincts for your own game and how you are playing. Taking a static number isn't helpful in that regard. You aren't counting for wind, lie, slope any of that.

For example, here's the spiel I normally give myself when coming up on a shot "Ok, looks like around 145ish to the green, lie could catch a flyer, we're going slightly uphill, and wind is slightly into. Long isn't bad so play for 155. Stock 8." Take about 20-30 seconds to make a decision and go. Don't overthink, just do.

While my wife likes the laser to get the exact yardage to the pin, I don't.  The GPS is much better for my game, as I'm not consistent enough to hit exact yardages.  However, the front/middle/back numbers tell me a lot.  The front and back numbers tell me what club to hit to get on the green, and what club will be too much.  If the pin is in the middle, I use that number.  If it's a front pin, I split the difference between the front and middle numbers.  If it's a back pin, I split the difference between the middle and back numbers.  

The pros have caddies that have walked the course and know the greens in advance of play.  They tell their player what the number is.  Without that help I want whatever distance information I can get within the rules.

With that said... if I'm close to the green and don't need a full shot, I will check the distance, but I don't use it as a static number.   If I were good enough to hit wedges specific distances by varying my clubs and swing, I would consider mapping my wedges.  I judge partial wedge distances by feel considering how I want to fly the ball, similar to throwing horseshoes and shooting hoops.  It's also the way I putt the ball, looking at the hole.  Of course, I'm better at my home course, but I'm acceptable at other courses.

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22 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

While my wife likes the laser to get the exact yardage to the pin, I don't.  The GPS is much better for my game, as I'm not consistent enough to hit exact yardages.  However, the front/middle/back numbers tell me a lot.  The front and back numbers tell me what club to hit to get on the green, and what club will be too much.  If the pin is in the middle, I use that number.  If it's a front pin, I split the difference between the front and middle numbers.  If it's a back pin, I split the difference between the middle and back numbers.  

The pros have caddies that have walked the course and know the greens in advance of play.  They tell their player what the number is.  Without that help I want whatever distance information I can get within the rules.

With that said... if I'm close to the green and don't need a full shot, I will check the distance, but I don't use it as a static number.   If I were good enough to hit wedges specific distances by varying my clubs and swing, I would consider mapping my wedges.  I judge partial wedge distances by feel considering how I want to fly the ball, similar to throwing horseshoes and shooting hoops.  It's also the way I putt the ball, looking at the hole.  Of course, I'm better at my home course, but I'm acceptable at other courses.

I'm glad it works for you Kenny, and for everyone else who uses these devices. I'm not advocating for getting rid of them for everyone as that would be stupid at best, what I don't like is the hemming and hawing that I've seen some people do with the devices. Sometimes you just need to trust and believe in yourself or your device.

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Absolutely it is.  I grew up playing this game long before the age of laser range finders, GPS' etc.  So I can navigate thru a round without having to even look at a range finder.  So I"m not worried if I leave my range finder at home or the battery runs out.  

I also bow hunt.  Knowing the proximity a deer is to me is vital if I hit or miss.  Also, just like anything else, requires a lot of practice.   

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I learned to play golf before there were any on course yardage aids - I also only had the odd numbered clubs at that time.

It was interesting...

I don’t often measure distances on courses that I’m familiar with - there are 4 in my area that account for 90 percent of the rounds which I play - I will only grab my Range Finder if I’m not certain of the yardage


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9 hours ago, Berg Ryman said:

Edited above to make my point. With the GPS's you get static front/middle/back which don't really take into account pin locations for most of the companies, and that's fine. Again, after playing for some time you kinda just get a feel for it. I do play with a lot of guys who have distance devices and like others I can usually guesstimate the yardage within 2-5 yards most times.

The other issue I have is that trusting one of those takes away your instincts for your own game and how you are playing. Taking a static number isn't helpful in that regard. You aren't counting for wind, lie, slope any of that.

For example, here's the spiel I normally give myself when coming up on a shot "Ok, looks like around 145ish to the green, lie could catch a flyer, we're going slightly uphill, and wind is slightly into. Long isn't bad so play for 155. Stock 8." Take about 20-30 seconds to make a decision and go. Don't overthink, just do.

Most good courses tell you pin position though, so you dont really need the app to tell you where the pin is.  Me, I usually plan cheaper, low spin balls; so I just aim for the front edge and let the ball run out a bit.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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I get chance to play maybe 2-3 times a month. There is no way to guess my yardages. Before getting my laser, I totally wasted at least 20 minutes a round trying to hunt out the yardage markers. Golf is hard enough 

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I will say that knowing or walking or feeling the yardage is a skill.  But a yardage is also common knowledge on a golf course and should be easily obtainable.  I think the tour should do away with yardage books.  I have stopped using mine and laser my yardages.  Its quick and easy.  This would speed up the game and make it more enjoyable for all.  

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I get chance to play maybe 2-3 times a month. There is no way to guess my yardages. Before getting my laser, I totally wasted at least 20 minutes a round trying to hunt out the yardage markers. Golf is hard enough 


Yes and yes to Jcustom golf. Allowing a laser would speed up play beyond a doubt.

I didn’t really answer the question in my earlier thread - I would say it’s not a necessary skill in golf - we are allowed by rule to know the yardage to the pin through the use of aids therefore it is not a necessary skill.


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Is knowing the distance to the target "against the spirit of the game?"  

 

I don't think so.  Golfers have been figuring out the distance to the target for as long as I've been playing golf (since the 1960s).  Before the advent of lasers and GPS, golfers relied on course maps, yardage markers, yardages listed on sprinkler heads and pin placement sheets.  Calculating distance involved stepping off distance and some simple math.  Golfers got very good at it.  

 

The pros still do it that way.  I find it interesting when the broadcasts include caddy /player discussions.  The TV announcer has the distance the target; the caddy and player usually come up with a yardage within a couple of yards.

 

Is taking a laser reading and finding out the pin is 148 yards (+or- 2 yards) all that different (and against the spirit of the game) from stepping off the distance from the ball to the 150 yard maker, adding in the pin location to come up with 148 yards?  The laser is just a tool that makes finding the distance faster than doing it by stepping it off.  Not using a laser, the golfer calculated the pin is 148 yards.  Using a laser, the player calculates the pin is 148 yards.  Both players have the same information.  The golfer still has to decide on the shot to hit and to execute that shot.

 

 

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How does anyone have time to "step off yardages"? Play is painfully slow as it is. It seems that would result in a few ass whoopings a week...lol.



It’s quite easy if you walk. I walk directly to my ball and when I pass the yard marker on the ground I start counting my steps. My ball is 12 steps after the 175 marker? Well, it’s 163 yards. I know my distance before I even set my bag down so I know I’m faster than someone using a laser.


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On 9/11/2019 at 12:49 PM, deejaid said:

...new range finder is released that has the ability to be pointed at a green, it reads the break for the player and then displays the optimal line of the putt on the screen?

When is this happening and where can I get one ?!🤣😅

 

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