Jump to content
revkev

Wedge gapping

Recommended Posts

We’ve had threads about this before but it’s been a while.

 

Dave Pelz and others advocate for even gapping through the bag - I get that rationale - 4 or 5degrees lead to even gaps between clubs, learn a technique to hit three distances with each wedge of every yardage is covered.

 

Looks great on paper. So I’ve gone 44, 48, 52, 56, 60.

 

And then I got shot scope and looked at my actual gapping, club usage, proximity to the pin on full shots, chips, pitches and from the sand.

 

It turns out that what I thought was a strength, wasn’t. Part of that was that I had to do tons of long game practice because of back to back MGS tests focused on that aspect of the game.

 

But another part is that I think there’s an unintended consequence to the Pelz theory and also a false assumption.

 

The unintended consequence is that more wedges lead to much greater confusion around the green. I have a chip to a short pin. Do I hit 56 or 60? The confusion led to not so great results.

 

The false assumption is that I need all of those yardages that the evenly gapped wedges net in an equal proportion to a longer club for position off the tee. Also it assumes that i have the time to practice all of those shots to dial in my yardages. Shot Scope revealed that I don’t need them all and it’s not even close.

 

Far and away my most important club - outside of putter - is driver. Wedges are far more important to scoring for me when used as chipping or pitching clubs around the green.

 

So I’ve jettisoned the 56,60 in favor of a 58. I go 48,52,58 now - it’s simplified my short game - I can easily get practice in with the 52 and 58. Their roles around the green are clearly defined.

 

On the rare occasion that I leave a tweeter yardage - say 88 yards - it’s easy enough to take a bit off the 52 degree wedge.

 

Having written all of this I’m not saying it’s the best thing for your game. A longer player may hit full wedges more than I do and therefore it makes sense to have even gaps - for example.

 

What I’m doing here is trying to get people to think through how their game works and recognize that just because a guy has made a name for himself as a guru doesn’t mean he’s right for your game or even generally given additional data or changes in the game.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve noticed that I rely on my 58 a lot. I have 46 and 50 are my AP2 PW and GE and the vokey s grind 54 and 58.

My 54 is good for 100 yards on “full” swings. My 58 for 85ish.

After that I have been relying too much on feel so worked on a clock system a bit, but I’m still mostly using my 58 unless it’s really greenside and can bump and run.

I’d like to have more versatility, but need more practice with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good Stuff Rev.

I really like the 52/58 idea that you are employing.

I am rolling with 52/56 right now.

It does simplify the short game.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a 48, 54, and 60 .... I rarely hit the 60 for a full shot, but use it a lot around the green, including greenside sand bunkers.  Considering dropping the 54 in favor of a 52 and replacing the 60 with a 58 when I replace my wedges (sometime next year, probably), but may just continue with the existing configuration.   I also like to hit 1/2 and 3/4 shots with the wedges for controlling my approach shots.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good Stuff Rev.

I really like the 52/58 idea that you are employing.

I am rolling with 52/56 right now.

It does simplify the short game.


What wedges are you using? How you like them with the blueprints? I know you were really liking the ping PW during your testing...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


What wedges are you using? How you like them with the blueprints? I know you were really liking the ping PW during your testing...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes sir. That is a great set wedge.

I have the previous model Bridgestone Tour B’s.

52°/8°
56/14°

I really need to replace the 56°, I wore it out, but I am not sure I’ll find one that performs like this one did, or feels as good.

I have a feeling that a 2.0 model of the PING Glide Forged is near, that could be the golden ticket if they offer them in other bounce options than 10°.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Yes sir. That is a great set wedge.

I have the previous model Bridgestone Tour B’s.

52°/8°
56/14°

I really need to replace the 56°, I wore it out, but I am not sure I’ll find one that performs like this one did, or feels as good.

I have a feeling that a 2.0 model of the PING Glide Forged is near, that could be the golden ticket if they offer them in other bounce options than 10°.


Yeah! The reviews of the glide 3.0 and it’s spin retention have me intrigued. But I think the forged profile might better suit my eye.

I’ll need to replace mine for next season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

46, 50 (Ping i210 for both) 54ss and 60ts Ping Glides 2.0. 

The 46 and 50 are full swing only. I am old enough to remember when a PW was closer to 50*. For me if it’s only going to be full swing club I want it to match my irons. 

54* is 80-100 yards in full swings and low pitches or bump and run shots. 

58*  is under 80 yards and higher pitches, chips and bunkers shots. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have 46, 50, 54, 58 in my bag.   Still building my distances for this set.  I have full swing distance for all and have done 3 different swings for the 54 and 58 (full, half with normal stance, and half with narrow stance).   I need to go and get the other two distances for my 46 and 50.    The half and half narrow are pitch shots;  chip shots can be anything from 5 iron to 58 wedge.   

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleveland advocates for 4-6* between wedges for a gap of 12–16 yards. Titleist recombfs gapping of the 9i vs the pw like most brands.

ive seen coaches talk about being able to hit low, mid and high shots with the wedges to be able to cover distances using different trajectories depending on pin placements and obstruction.

with all that said it’s about finding what works for you and your game.

looking at pros witb it can be seen there’s all kinds of combos. There’s no one right way.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After a lot of tinkering, I've gone back to 4 wedges and really have no confusion about which to pull when. My calculus starts with the fact that I want to be able to reliably hit full shots with all of my wedges.  Also, I need my highest lofted wedge to have just a bit of heel relief so I can open it a little - I have moved away from the wide open flop shot.  Finally, I will bump and run with any iron/wedge in my bag (chipped to tap in range with 6 and 8 iron last round).

Hence, my 47 (pw) and 51 (gw) are mostly full shot clubs with a few bump and runs and thus match my set.  My 55 (a Vokey F) hits full shots, lower partial wedge shots and does 80% of my sand work.  My 60 (a Vokey S) hits full shots, tight sand shots and all delicate shots around the green.  In reviewing my wedge play, it became clear that I needed to have different grinds (not radically different) on my 55/56 and 60.  This is the best configuration I have ever had for my game.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cleveland advocates for 4-6* between wedges for a gap of 12–16 yards. Titleist recombfs gapping of the 9i vs the pw like most brands.
ive seen coaches talk about being able to hit low, mid and high shots with the wedges to be able to cover distances using different trajectories depending on pin placements and obstruction.
with all that said it’s about finding what works for you and your game.
looking at pros witb it can be seen there’s all kinds of combos. There’s no one right way.


Which is exactly my point - of course an OEM is going to advocate for 4-5 degree gapping - that’s an extra wedge at $200.

I hate to be cynical but I am in this case.

I had so called perfect gapping for 3 years - when I looked at the numbers I was using 56 around 1 percent of the time 60 2 percent -

So I had perfect gapping for what purpose? My proximity to the hole with the 56 was 22 feet - I guarantee its about the same with a griped down 52. I’m not getting up and down from 90 yards with either club very often but I’m also not taking 4 strokes from there either. And I was hitting a full 56 every other round, perhaps less. Now I have a club in the bag that gets used 1-3 times a round and it sets me up for PW or 9 iron which I hit closer 18 feet and 21 feet on average.

You really need to track this stuff out for your own game to see what your set configuration should be and what you should be practicing.

And again as this post states it will differ for each player not just lofts but also bounce and grinds


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never, until my current set, had a PW stronger than 48 degrees and as a consequence I have only carried 53/58 for the past 10 years or so. When I got the i500's I immediately picked up a 50 (bent 1 degree strong) due to the stronger lofts but it was something I wasn't really comfortable with. When I replaced the i500 9 and PW with the Blueprints I was able to drop the 50* and go back to 53/58. I will look at perhaps replacing the 53 with something a bit stronger but I have found the 2 Crossover and 5 wood serve me better than the extra wedge. I have never had a problem with partial wedge shots and have found gaps in my long game being a bigger issue for me.

As Rev so aptly pointed out - you need to find out what works for YOU but you actually have to find out. I have always found it easier to take something off than hit something hard (when speaking about scoring clubs) but everyone is different. Find what works and then wear it out in practice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good reads throughout this thread.

Currently go 44/48/54/60, with the 44 and 48 being the C300s and the rest being actual wedges. If I could do it again, I would choose 52/56 for the wedges. Maybe include a 60 since I do like it from greenside sand.

It is nice having only two wedge choices around the green. And really, most everything is done with the 54, from full shots to chips. The 60 is used from the sand or if I really need a short and high pitch or chip.

Lots of things to keep in mind as I embark on replacing my irons this offseason. It will definitely necessitate a revisit to my wedge game.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to not play a 52 and just utilized 6-degree gaps (give or take). I've considered going back to that setup as I find myself not really using one of my 4 wedges all that much. However, I'm not sure what I'd do on the other end of my bag to fill the slot. I could always just game 13 clubs, but who does that? LOL

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, revkev said:

 


Which is exactly my point - of course an OEM is going to advocate for 4-5 degree gapping - that’s an extra wedge at $200.

I hate to be cynical but I am in this case.

I had so called perfect gapping for 3 years - when I looked at the numbers I was using 56 around 1 percent of the time 60 2 percent -

So I had perfect gapping for what purpose? My proximity to the hole with the 56 was 22 feet - I guarantee its about the same with a griped down 52. I’m not getting up and down from 90 yards with either club very often but I’m also not taking 4 strokes from there either. And I was hitting a full 56 every other round, perhaps less. Now I have a club in the bag that gets used 1-3 times a round and it sets me up for PW or 9 iron which I hit closer 18 feet and 21 feet on average.

You really need to track this stuff out for your own game to see what your set configuration should be and what you should be practicing.

And again as this post states it will differ for each player not just lofts but also bounce and grinds


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Considering the large majority of shots come from 125 yards and in having more options in that range makes sense. Also considering a large majority of amateurs full swing wedges also makes sense to have options there

I agree the right make up for loft and bounce will be individual. Guys in Florida are going to play different bounces and shot types compared to someone in the northeast and we will be different from those in Texas and parts of the Midwest where wind is a norm.

i think the one think most amateurs lack is flexibility with shots from less than full swing distances and around the green. Many use one club to hit every shot when it may not be the best option.

The swing expedition episode that aired on Monday with Jamie Mulligan imo was pretty good at showing how to use wedges and hit different shots to same distances. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Considering the large majority of shots come from 125 yards and in having more options in that range makes sense. Also considering a large majority of amateurs full swing wedges also makes sense to have options there
I agree the right make up for loft and bounce will be individual. Guys in Florida are going to play different bounces and shot types compared to someone in the northeast and we will be different from those in Texas and parts of the Midwest where wind is a norm.
i think the one think most amateurs lack is flexibility with shots from less than full swing distances and around the green. Many use one club to hit every shot when it may not be the best option.
The swing expedition episode that aired on Monday with Jamie Mulligan imo was pretty good at showing how to use wedges and hit different shots to same distances. 


This is a fun discussion - let’s analyze - based on my game - your May differ.

It is true that over half my shots are inside of 125 but what club(s) do I use for those?

My average score is 77. My average puts per round are 30.

So 30 shots with putter. On most courses that I play there are 14 holes with driver or some long club and there is not a single hole on any of the courses that I play that is under 125 on the card.

48 of 77 are not hit with wedges.

Taking my home course I might have a full wedge into 2, 6,7, 11, 17. That’s five so 13 more of those full shots plus 4 times on par 5’s -

I’m at 65 shots out of 77 - only a potential of 12 wedges per round - fewer than driver - generally speaking there will be 2 or 3 shots around the green played with putter (that makes sense given that shotscope says I use putter slightly over 33 times per round). My proximity to the hole with putter around the greenhouse is 5 feet, it’s 15 feet with everything else (skewed a bit because I’m a terrible trap player.)

I’ve mapped it out - I use a wedge of some sort an average of 9 times per round with the majority of those uses being the 52 or 58 around the green. An extra wedge won’t matter for those shots - I’m very proficient with the variety of shots needed on the courses that I play.

None of this is taking into account the fact that I’m capable of avoiding my gap - I know that I will have to creat a shot if I’m between 80-90. So I lay up to 75 or 100.

I appreciate MGS urging us to use a stat tracking system very much. I’ve learned a lot about my game through it.

The clubs that you carry need to match your game - not Phil Mickelson’s.

To be clear I am not advocating that anyone follow my set up. I am advocating that you follow some sort of logic beyond this or that “internet guru told me to do this “

I can know all the technique in the world for the 35 yard tight lie flop over a trap and then practice until I’m proficient at it. It doesn’t do me a bit of good though if I never face that shot and it may in fact hurt my game because I’m limited on my practice time and I could have gotten that shot at the expense of working on one that I face far more frequently.

I am saying that I think there’s a lot out there in terms of short game instruction that looks great, sounds great but is functionally irrelevant for most players.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
  • Like 2
  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I first started, I had read and followed what Pelz said about gapping so I went 60, 56, 52 then a pitching wedge at 47..  after a few years I kind of looked at my set and found I needed help more on the distance end and that the 60 was costing me more strokes then helping me so I simplified the top end to a 52 & 58 setup.  Testing the Cleveland RTX 4 wedges, I went to 52 & 56 for the wedges.  I primarily use the 56 for about 96% of my shots around the green and the 52 for longer pitches  and full approach shots.  There is no one right answer as others have said.  Also depends of your style of play; if you tend to lean on a bump and run style you may lean towards lower lofts and a high shot to land soft near the hole a higher loft for your wedge.

 

MDGolfHacker

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I'm at 45, 50, 55, 60. Admittedly, when I was younger and playing my best I went from pitching wedge to 56* and that was it. I'm thinking about an iron change maybe next season if I can swing it or test it, and with it I'm thinking of going back to the three wedge set up instead of 4 to take that super high-lofted wedge out of my bag and get my closer to something simple. Maybe PW from set, 50 and 56, those are my two most used wedges if I'm being honest and would get me back to simpler times. Obviously a lot is going to depend on the gaping with PW and where that'll sit in the set as to whether it's 50/56 52/58 48/54 etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The swing expedition episode that aired on Monday with Jamie Mulligan imo was pretty good at showing how to use wedges and hit different shots to same distances. 


I watched that episode and it was full of good information. The segment where he talked about 3 swings each club with same “texture” was my favorite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...