Wedge gapping

[revkev 21,988]

That seems a little harsh.  Couple of questions though.
What are the standard tee time gaps there? It seems like more and more clubs have gone to 8 minutes between tee times to maximize thru-put of groups in a day. That is too close together in my opinion, and leads to backups and longer rounds because the course is too crowded and there is no opportunity for players to miss a shot without disrupting the flow.
What kind of play are they basing their timing on? I've played all summer using USGA rules for league play and with 4 players in each group, all playing every stroke through the hole and following all the OB/lost ball rules etc., our fastest rounds come in at around 4:20 to 4:30. Is your club assuming gimmes, lateral drops on everything and other 'friendly round' adjustments to the rules?
Seems like they would know already that a crowded course with everyone using 2-player carts makes things go more slowly rather than faster.

12 minutes - this is a private club with very little public access. The course is never crowded this time of year. Walking is only allowed in the afternoon on weekends as there are a couple of gaps between tees.

This is exactly the third time that I’ve had a round take over 4 hours in five years there.

Once was with a group that was with me - it was brutally cold and windy out - we didn’t hold anyone up - it was just tough sledding that day.


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[Shankster 25,552]

A few Courses near me are 4-4 1/2 hours with no waiting on shots. Just a lot of distance between holes. Can’t just judge simply based by time to play

Ouch. Still... a long day.

[RickyBobby_PR 4,779]

3 hours ago, Shankster said:

4 and a half hour rounds? Good grief!

No wonder people dislike golf. I’d give up golf too, that’s insane.

That’s norm around here. Several courses are good at enforcing their policy and at that pace we rarely have to wait on the group in front. 

[revkev 21,988]

I will grant that there are courses where a round that’s a bit over 4 or even approaching 41/2 doesn’t seem that long.

But they are few and far between.


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[hartrick11 511]

Public tracks by me can get to 5:00 on weekends. It's brutal.

 

As for the wedges thread... I currently have my set PW & GW at 46 & 50, and then Vokey 54, 58. I have had thoughts about removing the 50 and 54 to add a 52, but more choice at the top of my bag might harm me even more than the additional choices in wedges. The one thing I don't need is an extra club to hit left of left...

[GolfSpy_THV 579]

When it rains, it pours...wedges! So after reading through this and thinking about my gaps sub 130yds (current full-swing GW @ 48*), I went and bought a couple Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth wedges @ 54.12 and 58.10 to compliment my PW & GW. However, upon mentioning this to a couple buddies, I was also forcibly donated a Cleveland CG11 52*, a Cleveland RTX3 56*, and another Ping Zing 2 @ 60*. So now i'm overrun with wedges and need to figure out which is best for my game. 

After playing a round last Friday with the Ping's I'm really liking the feel, turf interaction, and grip/spin they create. Still need to get them dialed in a bit at the driving range to understand their capabilities better. I'll give the others a try too and see what range they offer with a shot scope. 

Speaking of new wedges - what are your guys thoughts on matching shafts to irons? Right now I have KBVS Tour 105 stiff +1" on my irons and feel like the wedges make me hunch over more than normal, given the extra length in the irons. Once I find the right setup, should I get them reshafted? Is that overkill? 

[revkev 21,988]

When it rains, it pours...wedges! So after reading through this and thinking about my gaps sub 130yds (current full-swing GW @ 48*), I went and bought a couple Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth wedges @ 54.12 and 58.10 to compliment my PW & GW. However, upon mentioning this to a couple buddies, I was also forcibly donated a Cleveland CG11 52*, a Cleveland RTX3 56*, and another Ping Zing 2 @ 60*. So now i'm overrun with wedges and need to figure out which is best for my game. 
After playing a round last Friday with the Ping's I'm really liking the feel, turf interaction, and grip/spin they create. Still need to get them dialed in a bit at the driving range to understand their capabilities better. I'll give the others a try too and see what range they offer with a shot scope. 
Speaking of new wedges - what are your guys thoughts on matching shafts to irons? Right now I have KBVS Tour 105 stiff +1" on my irons and feel like the wedges make me hunch over more than normal, given the extra length in the irons. Once I find the right setup, should I get them reshafted? Is that overkill? 

Oh boy - that’s a loaded question - my wedge shafts are heavier than my iron shafts. I guess I’ve always preferred it that way so it’s what I do.

In general I’m not going after my wedges like I might a full iron shot.


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[Kenny B 23,005]

47 minutes ago, revkev said:

 

Oh boy - that’s a loaded question - my wedge shafts are heavier than my iron shafts. I guess I’ve always preferred it that way so it’s what I do.

In general I’m not going after my wedges like I might a full iron shot.
 

 

I like heavier wedge shafts too, but I thought you played your SCOR wedges with the UST Genius 7 graphite which is quite light for a wedge.

The shaft makes big difference for me in my wedge distance.  I never hit a full shot with my 60, and generally not with my 54 either but I do occasionally.  Since I went to the KBS Tour 90 in regular flex, I have gained full shot distance which now fit a perfect gap to my regular set PW.  I have ditched a wedge from my SCOR days, and now play 44, 54, 60.  

[Mr. 82 3,787]

On 9/12/2019 at 10:02 AM, revkev said:

 

This is a fun discussion - let’s analyze - based on my game - your May differ.

It is true that over half my shots are inside of 125 but what club(s) do I use for those?

My average score is 77. My average puts per round are 30.

So 30 shots with putter. On most courses that I play there are 14 holes with driver or some long club and there is not a single hole on any of the courses that I play that is under 125 on the card.

48 of 77 are not hit with wedges.

Taking my home course I might have a full wedge into 2, 6,7, 11, 17. That’s five so 13 more of those full shots plus 4 times on par 5’s -

I’m at 65 shots out of 77 - only a potential of 12 wedges per round - fewer than driver - generally speaking there will be 2 or 3 shots around the green played with putter (that makes sense given that shotscope says I use putter slightly over 33 times per round). My proximity to the hole with putter around the greenhouse is 5 feet, it’s 15 feet with everything else (skewed a bit because I’m a terrible trap player.)

I’ve mapped it out - I use a wedge of some sort an average of 9 times per round with the majority of those uses being the 52 or 58 around the green. An extra wedge won’t matter for those shots - I’m very proficient with the variety of shots needed on the courses that I play.

None of this is taking into account the fact that I’m capable of avoiding my gap - I know that I will have to creat a shot if I’m between 80-90. So I lay up to 75 or 100.

I appreciate MGS urging us to use a stat tracking system very much. I’ve learned a lot about my game through it.

The clubs that you carry need to match your game - not Phil Mickelson’s.

To be clear I am not advocating that anyone follow my set up. I am advocating that you follow some sort of logic beyond this or that “internet guru told me to do this “

I can know all the technique in the world for the 35 yard tight lie flop over a trap and then practice until I’m proficient at it. It doesn’t do me a bit of good though if I never face that shot and it may in fact hurt my game because I’m limited on my practice time and I could have gotten that shot at the expense of working on one that I face far more frequently.

I am saying that I think there’s a lot out there in terms of short game instruction that looks great, sounds great but is functionally irrelevant for most players.


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My apologies for not editing your above post to make my point and comment (I'm just lazy, bluntly put), but when you are tracking strokes per round, and then putts per round out of that (77-30), that leaves you with 47 strokes.  But look at this another way, which I think is more important than strokes, which is GIR.  How many greens do you hit in regulation?  Using my game to give you the example, I average about 8 GIR per round, which means that I am chipping on 10 or more holes per round.

OK, what's my point, as it pertains to wedges?  Well, what club are you using to chip with?  This is where the wedge conversation needs to go.  And for the sake of simplicity, I'll tell you how I work this argument with regards to choosing wedges.

I carry a PW, 50° gap, 54° SW, and 58° LW.  Why do I carry each of those clubs?  And this goes towards what you use each club in the bag for.

My GW (50°) is used on nothing but full 110 - 120 yard shots.  I don't try and trick up this club with choke downs or punches or anything.  Because my practice time is very limited, all I care about with this club is full shots in that yardage range.

My SW (54°) is the same as my GW, but from 95 - 105 yard shots.  Same deal, nothing but full shots with this club, only on shots that have that yardage.

So now we've eliminated a lot of confusion and questions when we get near a green that we are chipping on, but not even looking at these clubs outside of what their full shot distance is for.

That leaves my PW and LW left for shots in and around the green.

My PW I use on 125 - 130 yard full shots, but I also wear it out around the green, playing bump and run shots where I landed off of the green, but it's fairly flat and I can pitch a ball across the green.  I treat these pitches around the greens like it was my first putt, trying to get the ball within 3 feet of the hole, so that I have a makeable par putt, or tap in.  When I practice my short game at any short game practice area, I generally spend 90% of my time devoted to bump and run pitch shots with my PW.  I get this shot a lot, so I need to be somewhat decent with it since I'll use it at least 6 or 7 times a round, depending on how I am hitting my approach shots with my irons.

And I will tell you that just last week I played in a tournament where my irons were completely off.  I think I hit maybe 2 or 3 GIR the entire day, and ultimately, because I was chipping so well, I turned a 90 into an 85, because my chips were all close enough to the hole to just tap in the par putt.  I even got several comments from the guys I was paired with (who didn't know me) who complimented me on my short game saying, "I've never seen someone as good as you are with a wedge around the greens.  It's incredible how easily you get up and down."  Well, I assured them that it was an anomaly and I am not really as good as they thought, but I digress.

My last club is the 58° LW.  That's my bunker club on all bunker shots, as well as chips from about 90 yards and in.  I get a LOT of shots from about 60 yards, so I spent a LOT of time with my LW hitting shots from 60 yards.  This is so key to scoring in golf that I cannot practice it enough.  And as I have played with a lot of golfers in scrambles and tournaments, I see the same common problem with most guys.  Very few guys can hit that 60 yards half wedge shot.  They either blade it or chunk it and no one even hits the green with it.  I've worked countless hours getting good with this shot, because it's a shot I know I'll need at least 3 or 4 times a round minimum.  And if I am short sided behind a bunker to a tucked pin, I'm gonna pull the LW and pop it up over that bunker to land softly on the green, hopefully close enough to have a makeable par putt.

Most guys I know hit driver on the range over and over and over again, and are obsessed with distance.  Yeah, I'll hit driver maybe 14 times a round, and unless I am hitting it wild in the rough, it has no effect on my overall score of my round.  I hit drive to put it into play, to give myself a reasonable approach into greens, or setting up my 2nd shot into par 5s that I cannot reach.  But the driver only saves me shots when I hit fairways.  Yeah, it can cost me if it's in the rough, or hitting OB or whatever, but I'd rather hit it 230 and in the fairway, then 260 and in the rough or OB.  I can work any hole from further back, but I can't if the ball is gone or behind a tree.

Treat those chips around the green as your first putt, using the same club on bump and run pitches.  Only pull the LW from bunkers and on shots where you have very little green to work with, or you need to land it softly.  This is still a very hard shot, no matter how good a player you are.

I'd rather have 24 putts with 8 up and downs for par, then 32 putts where I had 8 bogies because my chips weren't anywhere near the hole.  Think about that math for a minute.  What's the difference in those 8 up and downs in a handicap?  The difference between a 12 handicap golfer and a 4.

[revkev 21,988]

54 minutes ago, GSwag said:

My apologies for not editing your above post to make my point and comment (I'm just lazy, bluntly put), but when you are tracking strokes per round, and then putts per round out of that (77-30), that leaves you with 47 strokes.  But look at this another way, which I think is more important than strokes, which is GIR.  How many greens do you hit in regulation?  Using my game to give you the example, I average about 8 GIR per round, which means that I am chipping on 10 or more holes per round.

OK, what's my point, as it pertains to wedges?  Well, what club are you using to chip with?  This is where the wedge conversation needs to go.  And for the sake of simplicity, I'll tell you how I work this argument with regards to choosing wedges.

I carry a PW, 50° gap, 54° SW, and 58° LW.  Why do I carry each of those clubs?  And this goes towards what you use each club in the bag for.

My GW (50°) is used on nothing but full 110 - 120 yard shots.  I don't try and trick up this club with choke downs or punches or anything.  Because my practice time is very limited, all I care about with this club is full shots in that yardage range.

My SW (54°) is the same as my GW, but from 95 - 105 yard shots.  Same deal, nothing but full shots with this club, only on shots that have that yardage.

So now we've eliminated a lot of confusion and questions when we get near a green that we are chipping on, but not even looking at these clubs outside of what their full shot distance is for.

That leaves my PW and LW left for shots in and around the green.

My PW I use on 125 - 130 yard full shots, but I also wear it out around the green, playing bump and run shots where I landed off of the green, but it's fairly flat and I can pitch a ball across the green.  I treat these pitches around the greens like it was my first putt, trying to get the ball within 3 feet of the hole, so that I have a makeable par putt, or tap in.  When I practice my short game at any short game practice area, I generally spend 90% of my time devoted to bump and run pitch shots with my PW.  I get this shot a lot, so I need to be somewhat decent with it since I'll use it at least 6 or 7 times a round, depending on how I am hitting my approach shots with my irons.

And I will tell you that just last week I played in a tournament where my irons were completely off.  I think I hit maybe 2 or 3 GIR the entire day, and ultimately, because I was chipping so well, I turned a 90 into an 85, because my chips were all close enough to the hole to just tap in the par putt.  I even got several comments from the guys I was paired with (who didn't know me) who complimented me on my short game saying, "I've never seen someone as good as you are with a wedge around the greens.  It's incredible how easily you get up and down."  Well, I assured them that it was an anomaly and I am not really as good as they thought, but I digress.

My last club is the 58° LW.  That's my bunker club on all bunker shots, as well as chips from about 90 yards and in.  I get a LOT of shots from about 60 yards, so I spent a LOT of time with my LW hitting shots from 60 yards.  This is so key to scoring in golf that I cannot practice it enough.  And as I have played with a lot of golfers in scrambles and tournaments, I see the same common problem with most guys.  Very few guys can hit that 60 yards half wedge shot.  They either blade it or chunk it and no one even hits the green with it.  I've worked countless hours getting good with this shot, because it's a shot I know I'll need at least 3 or 4 times a round minimum.  And if I am short sided behind a bunker to a tucked pin, I'm gonna pull the LW and pop it up over that bunker to land softly on the green, hopefully close enough to have a makeable par putt.

Most guys I know hit driver on the range over and over and over again, and are obsessed with distance.  Yeah, I'll hit driver maybe 14 times a round, and unless I am hitting it wild in the rough, it has no effect on my overall score of my round.  I hit drive to put it into play, to give myself a reasonable approach into greens, or setting up my 2nd shot into par 5s that I cannot reach.  But the driver only saves me shots when I hit fairways.  Yeah, it can cost me if it's in the rough, or hitting OB or whatever, but I'd rather hit it 230 and in the fairway, then 260 and in the rough or OB.  I can work any hole from further back, but I can't if the ball is gone or behind a tree.

Treat those chips around the green as your first putt, using the same club on bump and run pitches.  Only pull the LW from bunkers and on shots where you have very little green to work with, or you need to land it softly.  This is still a very hard shot, no matter how good a player you are.

I'd rather have 24 putts with 8 up and downs for par, then 32 putts where I had 8 bogies because my chips weren't anywhere near the hole.  Think about that math for a minute.  What's the difference in those 8 up and downs in a handicap?  The difference between a 12 handicap golfer and a 4.

First of all, great to hear from you!!!!

I see your point but would like you to look at it a bit differently for a moment - it's a golf course and the object is to complete it in the fewest number of strokes possible - the tee shot is going to cover well more than half of that course over 18 holes  - if you had to play all holes with just your wedges you would shoot a much higher score - sounds ridiculous but it is a point that never gets made - Statistically the tee ball is an extremely important shot.

The better that I hit my tee ball however that might be defined - for a shorter player like me that might mean doing things to acquire more length or things to be sure that I'm more accurate - the more greens I'm going to hit, the lower scores that I'm going to shoot.  I will take additional greens hit over up and downs any day because the up and downs aren't as sustainable as putting is - it's easier to get down and 2 from 30 feet on a uniform surface with putter than from 40 feet out of light rough with a wedge. 

I would maintain that anything better than 50 percent on up and downs is about the limit for most people.  I can obtain that number with 3 wedges just as easily as with 4 - what I can't obtain with 4 wedges in my bag in Florida in the summer is a 210 yard tee shot and I have any number of holes on the courses that I play that require a tee shot of 195-210.   215 is where the hazards start to come into play on three holes and that risk of penalty is not worth it.  Laying back further means an 8 iron into well guarded greens - that's not a shot that I want to expose myself too for the sake of an additional wedge in my bag - one that might be used every other round, perhaps even less frequently than that.

The real point of this thread though is for each player to carefully analyze his or her own bag to determine what the best set up would be for him.  GSwag it may make perfect sense for you to carry 5 wedges and for me to carry 3.  What ever we carry needs to make sense for our individual game.

 

At Kenny I do have the Genius 7's in my 48/52 - they are heavier than the shafts in my irons which weigh 56 grams - I have a KBS tour wedge flex in my 58 (and 60) which of course is significantly heavier than the Genius 7. 

[cnosil 14,521]

. 
I would maintain that anything better than 50 percent on up and downs is about the limit for most people. . 

50% long term is probably really high. I think tour pro is in the 30-40% range.

[chisag 11,457]

... I am a little late to this thread but Rev started good one. Completely agree with Rev and every player is different and should find out what works best for them. That said in my opinion there are two things every golf can do to improve their wedge play:

1. Flight your wedges down using 1/2 and 3/4 swings!!! I will always remember my first Tour event. I was surprised by how high players hit their irons and how low they hit their wedges. I played in a Pro Am a few months later and the aspiring Tour player told me the biggest improvement I could make is learning to hit my wedges low. He gave me a mini lesson that changed my game. Way back then I used a 6* gap at 48 - 54 - 60. Several years ago with pw's dropping in loft I switched to 46-52-58. I rarely hit a full wedge shot and in fact, I rarely hit full short irons. I live in a windy area and flighting short irons instead of towering irons that are effected by the wind is a key to hitting greens and scoring. Regardless of how many wedges you carry, learning to flight the ball lower with 1/2 and 3/4 swings will most definitely improve your short game.

2. I have said this before, but learning to use a single club and preferably your highest loft for every shot around the green will be extremely beneficial to your short game. It will teach you to be a little creative and add feel to your short game. Once you become reasonably proficient with your highest lofted wedge you can add another wedge to your rotation, and once reasonably proficient with that club begin using all the clubs you think may be beneficial to your game. The is how I trained myself to master my 60* and in fact I got so good with it, I never moved on to other clubs because I am so confident in my 58*.  Most would tell you with a pin at the back of a flat green and your ball is on the front fringe, get the ball rolling like a putt with 8iron or even lower loft. I will admit all things considered that is the best option, but I can get it closer flying my 58* about 5 yards short of the pin and have it bounce once and trickle to the hole. The beauty of this technique is it is not dependent on greens or green speed. Hard greens will take a bigger bounce and trickle a little more so I land it 10 yds short of the pin, medium speeds 5 yds and very soft slow greens I can basically throw it just short of the pin as it will hit and stop immediately. The technique for all of those shots is identical and the only change I have to make is high far I fly the ball. But again, for most learning these shots and adding running chips is a higher percentage shot but it is nice to know you have the higher lofted spin and check shot in your pocket if you need it. 

... I would be remiss in not adding the longer you are, the more wedges you need. I hit my 58* 85 yds with a full swing and my pw 120, but my son hits his 60* wedge 105 and his pw 150. So my gap is 35 yds but his is 45 yds so he needs an additional wedge.

[chisag 11,457]

20 minutes ago, cnosil said:

50% long term is probably really high. I think tour pro is in the 30-40% range.

 

... Tour pros play difficult and very fast greens and find themselves in positions where the announcer says "getting this inside 20 feet would be a great shot". On most muni's and resort courses with slow to medium paced greens, I expect to get up and down at least 80% of the time. The only time I don't expect to get up and down is when I short side myself into thick rough or when the green is sloping away from me. Course management dictates I avoid those conditions at all costs so better to have a 25 foot putt than a 6 foot chip out of deep rough or to a pin severely sloping away from me. That said a mishit can leave me in those impossible up and downs. And of course, when playing a tour caliber course with fast undulating greens, that number would go down too.  

[PlaidJacket 7,722]

59 minutes ago, chisag said:

I have said this before, but learning to use a single club and preferably your highest loft for every shot around the green will be extremely beneficial to your short game

I always seem to find similarities with our games and how we play it. The other day it was putting. I play my 56* more than any other wedge in the bag. Although I prefer to keep it low and let it run more than you. However, my 56 is my go to wedge. Next is my 60. It's windy to one degree or another here where I play and I suppose growing up in the those conditions I just learned to flight or keep the ball lower. Or else.

1 hour ago, chisag said:

On most muni's and resort courses with slow to medium paced greens, I expect to get up and down at least 80% of the time. The only time I don't expect to get up and down is when I short side myself into thick rough or when the green is sloping away from me.

Again... I usually feel the same way. I don't sweat it much missing greens. It happens all to often. But I usually think I'll get up/down most of the time. My percentage is probably about 75%+ most days. Maybe a little less right now as the rough is pretty high. My home course greens are fairly straight forward but generally pretty quick. My irons just haven't been that hot in recent months to be honest. But a good chip/pitch - short game and putting well will save the day. 

[chisag 11,457]

... Plaid, I do play shots with my 58* where I keep it low and run it to the hole. That is the beauty of mastering one wedge, you will have every shot. I got lucky with my ex playing pard because we would play 18 at twilite, then play 10 and finish at 11 which took us right beside the parking lot. It was a par 5 with a difficult green surrounded by bunkers and trees. We would have a short game contest where we would take turns placing the ball in impossible positions and then whoever got up and down in the least strokes won. He could use all his clubs but I could only use my 60* wedge. It was invaluable practice but disguised as a fun competition and it helped me tremendously.   

[3ironpunch 72]

Great info Rev

I think I understand where you are coming from here. I have two set wedges,  PW and AW in the XR-OS's along with two old Renegar's which I always left in the garage because they were "non functioning" (wink) .

The AW has always been a full swing 70 yards and the PW a full swing 90 yards.  I have tried for many years to employ the Pelz 3 swing method.  Occasionally it works, most of the time it's just ok.  So, in an effort to have some consistency under 70 yards AND have something that will actually have a chance to hold a green, I decided to try some Hogan's.

I picked up a TK 44 and three Equalizers ( 48, 52 and 56 ). Once they arrived, off to the range I went.  I can say that I now know the Equalizer 52  is a solid 50 yard club for me.  The 44 can replace my set PW .  The jury is still out on the 48 and 56 as I just have not had the time I would like to practice with the new tools.

 The pro of the decision.

Feel and versatility from the forged clubs AND I now have a change to hold a green as they will definitely impart actin on the ball that I have never been able to achieve with the the set wedges. 

The cons of the switch.

I found that I have to commit to learning HOW to hit these clubs as they are not Game Improvement models.  AND  Now I have two more clubs that may or may not have a place in the rotation in regards to yardages.

I guess Time will tell..... AND they are Really Nice Looking Clubs   IMHO

 

[romeopapazulu 621]

On 9/11/2019 at 9:19 PM, revkev said:

Which is exactly my point - of course an OEM is going to advocate for 4-5 degree gapping - that’s an extra wedge at $200.

I hate to be cynical but I am in this case.

 

Rev, I think if the OEMs were pushing a club selection strategy to make more money, they would be pushing more $400 woods than $200 wedges. 

I can count on two hands  in the last year that I have used my hybrid, driving iron or 4 iron. I hit that many wedges less than two rounds. 

Broadie showed how Tiger smashed the field in his prime. I just don't see how the typical amateur is going to improve that much trying to learn how to stick 4 and 5 irons in birdie range. 

I had a laminated card with all my partial wedge distances.  It made selection of a wedge a 5 second process. I lost it and have reverted to a one wedge tactic and my game is suffering for it. 

I have started using the rule of 12 recently when I am in chipping range and have liked that a lot. 

[3ironpunch 72]

On 9/23/2019 at 6:55 PM, Tarheelvolvo said:

When it rains, it pours...wedges! So after reading through this and thinking about my gaps sub 130yds (current full-swing GW @ 48*), I went and bought a couple Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth wedges @ 54.12 and 58.10 to compliment my PW & GW. However, upon mentioning this to a couple buddies, I was also forcibly donated a Cleveland CG11 52*, a Cleveland RTX3 56*, and another Ping Zing 2 @ 60*. So now i'm overrun with wedges and need to figure out which is best for my game. 

After playing a round last Friday with the Ping's I'm really liking the feel, turf interaction, and grip/spin they create. Still need to get them dialed in a bit at the driving range to understand their capabilities better. I'll give the others a try too and see what range they offer with a shot scope. 

Speaking of new wedges - what are your guys thoughts on matching shafts to irons? Right now I have KBVS Tour 105 stiff +1" on my irons and feel like the wedges make me hunch over more than normal, given the extra length in the irons. Once I find the right setup, should I get them reshafted? Is that overkill? 

I just purchased hogan wedges and had them built to my spec. I felt it would help since the set wedges they replaced were upright and +1. I don’t think I could have hit them otherwise

[3ironpunch 72]

10 hours ago, romeopapazulu said:

Rev, I think if the OEMs were pushing a club selection strategy to make more money, they would be pushing more $400 woods than $200 wedges. 

I can count on two hands  in the last year that I have used my hybrid, driving iron or 4 iron. I hit that many wedges less than two rounds. 

Broadie showed how Tiger smashed the field in his prime. I just don't see how the typical amateur is going to improve that much trying to learn how to stick 4 and 5 irons in birdie range. 

I had a laminated card with all my partial wedge distances.  It made selection of a wedge a 5 second process. I lost it and have reverted to a one wedge tactic and my game is suffering for it. 

I have started using the rule of 12 recently when I am in chipping range and have liked that a lot. 

Question...what is the rule of 12 please?

thanks

[romeopapazulu 621]

3 minutes ago, 3ironpunch said:

Question...what is the rule of 12 please?

thanks