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Kirkland 4 Piece Ball

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9 hours ago, Kenny B said:

I see that in your reference, but it still doesn't answer the question about why the ball is now non-conforming... it's just not on the current list.  

So, when a ball is conforming and on the list, the packaging can state that the ball "Conforms with the Rules of Golf", but after a year that ball is no longer conforming??  That makes no sense.

The ball is not non-conforming in the sense that it failed one or more of the conformance tests, it just cannot be used in any event where the list has been adopted as a local rule (one ball rule often accompanies this). That would be all events hosted by the USGA, R&A, PGA of America, PGA Tour, and ANGC amping others. Basically if the ball is not being actively played on tour nor actively marketed at retail, it likely won’t last long on this list but can still be played where the local rule is not adopted. Simply the USGAs way of keeping the list tidy and making it easier to maintain (personally I think the inclusion period should be longer).

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1 hour ago, storm319 said:

The ball is not non-conforming in the sense that it failed one or more of the conformance tests, it just cannot be used in any event where the list has been adopted as a local rule (one ball rule often accompanies this). That would be all events hosted by the USGA, R&A, PGA of America, PGA Tour, and ANGC amping others. Basically if the ball is not being actively played on tour nor actively marketed at retail, it likely won’t last long on this list but can still be played where the local rule is not adopted. Simply the USGAs way of keeping the list tidy and making it easier to maintain (personally I think the inclusion period should be longer).

Thanks for posting the USGA ball submission guidelines document. Most of the little bureaucratic twists contained therein seemed to be directed at merely making the job of maintaining the conforming list more manageable for the USGA.

My reading of it suggests that had Costco held back several dozen of the original 4 piece K-Sig, mailing the USGA two dozen (in original retail packaging) per year would have been all that was required to keep it on the conforming list. So, twenty boxes would have been sufficient inventory to keep the ball on the conforming list for a decade. Easily managed within a golf specific organization, but probably way down the list of priorities for a company like Costco.


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Bettinardi.png.e7ca0ee7ba785611a4a144e16b6b93ab.png___SS38 Armlock
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6 hours ago, downlowkey said:

Thanks for posting the USGA ball submission guidelines document. Most of the little bureaucratic twists contained therein seemed to be directed at merely making the job of maintaining the conforming list more manageable for the USGA.

My reading of it suggests that had Costco held back several dozen of the original 4 piece K-Sig, mailing the USGA two dozen (in original retail packaging) per year would have been all that was required to keep it on the conforming list. So, twenty boxes would have been sufficient inventory to keep the ball on the conforming list for a decade. Easily managed within a golf specific organization, but probably way down the list of priorities for a company like Costco.

You hit the nail on the head. The guidelines are absolutely focused on ease of maintenance for the USGA (I would do the same if I were in the same position although I think 24 months is more reasonable than 12). Ultimately the USGA has been using the conditional local rule paradigm for years to avoid bifurcation as many of these rules are focused on reigning in players at the highest levels while not interfering with the majority of amateur play.

As for why Costco/SM Global are not continually resubmitting the original ball, the reality is there is no incentive for them to pay to resubmit a ball that they are no longer selling ($1200 per submission is nothing for Costco, but they are getting nothing for it). Also with limited stock that was available, there would be very few people playing this ball in an event that has the list enforced via a local rule. 

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On 9/13/2019 at 7:57 PM, JohnSmalls said:

I’m ready to see one cut open!   


gefpyjq4nzva.jpg
2yg4z8yqc0e2.jpg
 
 
 
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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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Looks like a much thinner outer urethane layer. Something MGS said made the 3 piece only a “good” rating


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2 minutes ago, KurtActual said:

Looks like a much thinner outer urethane layer. Something MGS said made the 3 piece only a “good” rating
 

 

... Tony also got reckless stating the new 4 piece Performance One would have the exact same cover and thickness as the 3 piece. 😳

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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i wonder if the putters and wedges will be any good.

Edited by Tsecor
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8 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

i wonder if the putters and wedges will be any good.

 

... I think we can assume that like most Kirkland products, they will be very good. Whether or not they fit our individual preferences will be the big question. I like a straight leading edge on my wedges so that is a deal breaker for me. Of course soul grind is also essential and I doubt they will offer multiple grinds but the average player can probably use a standard type sole and bounce and at that price I think they will be a no brainer. 8620 is cheap and I hate it when OEMs charge $150 for wedges made out of it and not a forged 1025/1020 carbon steel, so the $99 price point for 2 will be much more inline with what they cost to make. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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2 hours ago, chisag said:

gefpyjq4nzva.jpg
2yg4z8yqc0e2.jpg
 
 
 

Thank you!  It looks good thus far!  Have you played it yet?


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4 hours ago, JohnSmalls said:

Thank you!  It looks good thus far!  Have you played it yet?

...My tracking info says they are due to arrive tomorrow 9/18. Hopefully they get here in time to play some twilite golf! 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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13 hours ago, chisag said:

...My tracking info says they are due to arrive tomorrow 9/18. Hopefully they get here in time to play some twilite golf! 

Ha! Mine will be here today as well.

Excited to see these wedges be released.


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Mine arrived yesterday, using EXTREMELY scientific methods. I compared the bounce of the new ball to the last gen 3 piece ball at eye level and it bounces about 1/4 of the ball higher than the last gen. 

Hardness level is about the same I couldn't feel the difference in putting and just bouncing the ball on an iron.

on a 50 degree wedge bouncing on my tile floor and the spin back is slightly further than the gen 3

 

but again, I reiterate how scientific this simple experience is so your result may vary 🤣

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Can confirm MGS’ comments about durability. These covers cut with a full wedge shot. Ok for a player like me that rarely takes a full swing with a wedge. My full 7 iron shots didn’t cut it at all.


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... Like many things in the world of golf, everyone can have a different experience. I played the KS4 today and was very happy with the performance and durability. First KS ball (pictured below) had a little wedge cutting after an extremely aggressive wedge shot that resulted in a tap in birdie. I honestly didn't even notice until the next hole when I was cleaning it. I could have continued to use it but replaced it on the 6th tee. To be fair, I have had similar cover cutting with Maxfli Tour X's. The 2nd KS4 was visually unblemished after 18 holes and I hit a tree pretty square on #14 and after cleaning it off on the green there was zero visible damage. Now, this is only a 2 ball sample and only one round of golf but so far so good. 

... As far as performance, it was a pretty calm day so I don't know how the wind effects its flight but distance and spin was comparable to Z Stars. Z Stars and my gamers, the TP5x are extremely consistent so time will tell if these KS4's all perform similar and are equally durable. I'll post more results after playing more of them a couple weeks but at $29.99 for 2 dozen they are just about what I was expecting.  

KS4.jpg.b1ff8eb246dde9335b6b7ab6b5ea3ec0.jpg 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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MGS sharing these pics is interesting:

 

I really would like to hear where these pics came from. I have done my absolute best to abuse the couple of KSig's I am testing, and have come up with NOTHING even close to these pics!

Attached is the pic I shared on Facebook when MGS originally posted about durability concerns. ( I commented that only full wedge swings would cut the cover)

 

70439603_2452222574847542_3937057741259931648_n.jpg


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9 minutes ago, KurtActual said:

MGS sharing these pics is interesting:

 

I really would like to hear where these pics came from. I have done my absolute best to abuse the couple of KSig's I am testing, and have come up with NOTHING even close to these pics!

Attached is the pic I shared on Facebook when MGS originally posted about durability concerns. ( I commented that only full wedge swings would cut the cover)

 

70439603_2452222574847542_3937057741259931648_n.jpg

They came from posts on social media. The finditcutit movement has people posting more pics with issues and the hype around Kirkland has been there since the first ball came out. Now they are in version 3 of the ball and as we are seeing from mgs testing and user testing the quality isn’t there


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Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

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these balls are great for the high handicap golfer who doesnt care what ball they play. Decent ball at a great price. Quality issues will plague it though. Sounds like the cover is tearing without even hitting trees or the path


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1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

They came from posts on social media. The finditcutit movement has people posting more pics with issues and the hype around Kirkland has been there since the first ball came out. Now they are in version 3 of the ball and as we are seeing from mgs testing and user testing the quality isn’t there

 

... I am of the opinion that you get what you pay for. From what I have read, there is a problem with the cover adhering to the mantle, which can cause tearing. But this seems to be more of an isolated problem and we have already read where many including myself, did not have a problem with the new KS4. I have only played 2 balls and my next may tear like photo's we have seen. But even if it does, paying $14.99 a dozen I have no complaints with this initial offering and knowing Costco, they will get it fixed with the next batch. 

... As I posted before, I played with a mini tour winner in Orlando that played the original KS 4 piece and he loved it, but found one in his dozen that performed differently than the rest. As someone making his living playing golf, he could not take a chance on one ball behaving differently and possibly derailing his round. Now the difference was just in spin numbers, not in quality so a high/mid index player may not even notice that spin difference and again, at $14.99 I think most can put up with one ball out of 12 not measuring up in spin to the others. 

... So even though most of us understand you get what you pay for and do not expect a $14.99 a dozen ball to compare to a $45 premium ball, being close to their performance is all we are expecting. And of course the fact that Costco will take them back without any questions should make it a no brainer for bargain hunters. I never planned on using my Kirklands for serious competition but as someone that plays over 250 rounds a year, having a ball like the KS4 to play in casual rounds even if a few prove to be faulty, I can live with that. As always ymmv ...

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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29 minutes ago, KurtActual said:

MGS sharing these pics is interesting:

 

I really would like to hear where these pics came from. I have done my absolute best to abuse the couple of KSig's I am testing, and have come up with NOTHING even close to these pics!

Attached is the pic I shared on Facebook when MGS originally posted about durability concerns. ( I commented that only full wedge swings would cut the cover)

 

70439603_2452222574847542_3937057741259931648_n.jpg

 

 

THe upper right photo is mine and thats actually the 2nd ball in the sleeve.  The first ball I hit my first iron shot a little thin (that's my usual miss) and got up to the green, cleaned my ball off and there was a cut on it..Not all the way through, but a black line across it.  I was using a Srxion z585 PW.  So I switched the ball out 2 holes later.  Keep in mind I've never cut a ball before from slightly thinning a shot.  The ball in the pic is after I smoked a tree.  Again, I have neve had a brand new ball cut wide open after hitting a tree.  A scuff or some road rash is what I expected to see, not the cover torn up.  It was actually curled up under itself when I picked it up.  IT seems like the underside of the cover is slippery and it doesn't stick to the 2nd layer very well.  I loved the OG 4 piece and have a box of the 3 piece (that I use in early spring), so I am a huge fan of the kirkland golf products (i also use the gloves, not in the pic because it was hot and humid yesterday).  I am actually shocked by the cover, I have played all the top balls this season, and have never once had a ball cut and the cover fold up under itself.  Performance wise the ball is legit.  Great spin off my wedges, and long off the driver. So it sucks that the cover has quality control issues.

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... Quick update. I played 2 new KS4's today rotating them every other hole so 9 each. After 18 they both look basically new without a mark on them. They were hit out of bunkers and both took some aggressive wedge shots. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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