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mbrodeur86

VERY Angry - Need advice and help with Driver swing and gapping

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Guys,

A little history:

I was fitted this summer (for the first time ever) for a driver. I ended up with a Mizuno ST190 with a Fujikura Atmos TS 65g Stiff shaft. Although I really enjoyed my experience a the fitting. I have NOT been able to hit it all summer long! 

Now, before I sit here and blame the club - I am the issue. I can't swing this driver any harder than maybe 50%. I get a low hook almost every time I swing it. If I try to swing harder - I can spray the ball all over the course! left, right and rarely center. I have completely lost my driver swing. I've fought with it all summer. I am going to try to upload a vid of it asap to get that issue analyzed. 

 

I'm also trying to figure out how my gaping should go. My 150 yard club is my 9 iron. During the summer I can hit my 60 degree lob wedge 100 yards with a full swing. Right now my driver is at an average of 256. Here's what I don't understand. my 5 iron distance is 183? That doesn't seem right. My 6 iron says 169 yards. my 7 is 165. my 8 is 157. I'm using a Garmin S20 watch and it measures my shots for me. I know it's probably not accurate but my 9 is my 150 club. Everything else seems off. 

 

Please help me figure this out. I was trending the right way this year. Got myself down to a 5.6 handicap and finished 2nd in my local club championship this year. I need to take that next step and my length off the tee used to be a strong point for me. I couldn't use it in the club because I couldn't trust my swing. 😟

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While it is certainly hard to diagnose anything without seeing your swing, I have to wonder... For all the issues you're having with driver, are you seeing similar problems with any other clubs? Where did you go for your fitting? How was it conducted?

As for the gapping issues, the best thing I can recommend is getting time on a launch monitor to first verify the numbers you're getting are accurate. I'll also say that it is not at all uncommon for people to have gapping issues on the long end of their bag due to inconsistencies in strike or because the club lofts are simply off from where they need to be. It does seem odd that you'd have issues through the middle of your bag, but is that what you're actually seeing out on the golf course or is that simply what your Garmin S20 is telling you?

The absolute best advice I can give based on the information provided is to get some time in with an instructor or at the very least someone with the requisite skills to diagnose what's going on in person - might just mean you grab one of the best players at your club and ask them to take a look. If you were able to get down to a 5.6, then odds are you're just missing a small piece of the puzzle and that wholesale changes aren't needed (except the driver MAYBE).

Just my two cents.

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I was fitted on a monitor from Golf Town (I'm in Canada) by a certified pro. That day I was swinging horribly and had big slices. I was butt hurt because I always thought I had 160 mph ball speed when in fact with dry ball data it was 155 so I was trying to swing harder to get the 160 mph ball speed. 

If I take easy swings I am a decent ball striker. The second I try to give it some more juice I'm all over the place. My irons aren't so bad. I do sometimes flub shots here and there but I'm fairly comfortable. 

 

At the club, I was hitting my 3 hybrid instead of my driver because I could control it. I was even occasionally out driving my opponents with it. My tendency with the hybrid is a straight pull to the left. I think that has to do with my shoulder turn coming in quicker than my hips. I'm not sure but I'm going to take some video tonight if possible and upload it.

 

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9 minutes ago, mbrodeur86 said:

I was fitted on a monitor from Golf Town (I'm in Canada) by a certified pro. That day I was swinging horribly and had big slices. I was butt hurt because I always thought I had 160 mph ball speed when in fact with dry ball data it was 155 so I was trying to swing harder to get the 160 mph ball speed

Did you have a conversation with the fitter about this? It's very likely you would have got an improper fitting if you were manipulating the swing in any way just to chase ball speed. Is it also possible that's why you were slicing it that day? I understand the frustration and disappointment of seeing numbers that appear much less than you expect on a launch monitor, but it's important to continue swinging normally in spite of that so you can get the help you need instead of chasing down problems that wouldn't otherwise exist. If the fitter offers any kind of guarantee, you might try to return and make sure you're fitted to the right shaft and loft settings, etc.

 

16 minutes ago, mbrodeur86 said:

If I take easy swings I am a decent ball striker. The second I try to give it some more juice I'm all over the place. My irons aren't so bad. I do sometimes flub shots here and there but I'm fairly comfortable. 

Anything could be happening when you try to go after it (contact issues, timing, face & path issues) so it's hard to say. I'd suggest using some foot powder spray or impact tape to verify strike location and start trying to diagnose your ball flight. I'd also test your ability to swing harder with your fairway wood or hybrid and see what impact location looks like on them as well. Sounds more and more to me like you're just in the wrong shaft and may need some additional adjustments to the loft sleeve as well.

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Regarding you question on gapping, you should have about 12-15 yards between clubs. You might not have that because you aren’t swinging well and making good contact or the clubs aren’t setup correctly to provide that gap.

 

My guess based on your post is that you are chasing numbers and trying to hit the ball as far as possible with every shot. I think you are just swinging hard and not fast which gets you out of sequence and results in inconsistent distances.

 

You seem to be pointing at the fitting for causing the driver problems. What was you ball flight like before the fitting? I doubt that even a bad fitting would change a good ball flight to a low hook.

 

My non educated, I stayed at a holiday inn express, opinion is that you are swinging out of your shoes because your club was fitted and you have gotten your sequencing totally messed up. As a 5.6 you have to have a decent swing and not consistently experience what you describing

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1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said:

Did you have a conversation with the fitter about this? It's very likely you would have got an improper fitting if you were manipulating the swing in any way just to chase ball speed. Is it also possible that's why you were slicing it that day? I understand the frustration and disappointment of seeing numbers that appear much less than you expect on a launch monitor, but it's important to continue swinging normally in spite of that so you can get the help you need instead of chasing down problems that wouldn't otherwise exist. If the fitter offers any kind of guarantee, you might try to return and make sure you're fitted to the right shaft and loft settings, etc.

 

Anything could be happening when you try to go after it (contact issues, timing, face & path issues) so it's hard to say. I'd suggest using some foot powder spray or impact tape to verify strike location and start trying to diagnose your ball flight. I'd also test your ability to swing harder with your fairway wood or hybrid and see what impact location looks like on them as well. Sounds more and more to me like you're just in the wrong shaft and may need some additional adjustments to the loft sleeve as well.

I did. I told him my usual ball flight was a light fade which I like and miss because I could swing normally and it went where I intended most of the time. In terms of consistency, I am pretty much around the middle of the club, maybe off the center by millimeters. 

I don't generate enough ball speed to hit 300 yards so I'm not trying to do that. I want to be able to get control of my shot again. 1 thing I forgot to mention. He had placed the order with Mizuno for a 10.5 degree head but I got a 9.5 He told me to adjust it to a 10.5 but if I'm not mistaken that closes the face more, right?

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2 hours ago, mbrodeur86 said:

If I take easy swings I am a decent ball striker. The second I try to give it some more juice I'm all over the place. My irons aren't so bad. I do sometimes flub shots here and there but I'm fairly comfortable. 

 

4 minutes ago, mbrodeur86 said:

I don't generate enough ball speed to hit 300 yards so I'm not trying to do that. I want to be able to get control of my shot again.

I read a little bit of split motivations here.  You're a good ballstriker with "easy" swings, all over the place when you try to hit it harder.  You want to get control again.  So why not swing easier?  I know why, because you have a new driver, you expect to hit it further, and you're giving it that extra "juice" to get the distance.

I'm speaking a bit from personal experience.  I was fitted for a driver late last fall.  For a while after getting it, I'd subconsciously give it a bit extra, because I expected a big increase in distance.  That wasn't rational, the club was longer than my previous driver, but not by a bunch of yards, still, I expected "more", so I gave more effort.  And it didn't work, I was all over the place.  If I'm "patient" with my swing, if I let the club do what its supposed to do with just normal effort on my part, I get really good results.  

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Regarding you question on gapping, you should have about 12-15 yards between clubs. You might not have that because you aren’t swinging well and making good contact or the clubs aren’t setup correctly to provide that gap.

 

My guess based on your post is that you are chasing numbers and trying to hit the ball as far as possible with every shot. I think you are just swinging hard and not fast which gets you out of sequence and results in inconsistent distances.

 

You seem to be pointing at the fitting for causing the driver problems. What was you ball flight like before the fitting? I doubt that even a bad fitting would change a good ball flight to a low hook.

 

My non educated, I stayed at a holiday inn express, opinion is that you are swinging out of your shoes because your club was fitted and you have gotten your sequencing totally messed up. As a 5.6 you have to have a decent swing and not consistently experience what you describing

I agree about chasing number. I assume my 5 iron should be higher than it is (at 12 yards like you said it would bring me around 200 yards) I try not to swing hard but fast like you say but I think my body doesn't understand what I'm trying to do lol

 

I certainly do NOT want to blame the fitter for this. It's my swing, I own up to it. I know I'm doing something wrong and will get a video going hopefully tonight (it's raining here) 

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1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

 

I read a little bit of split motivations here.  You're a good ballstriker with "easy" swings, all over the place when you try to hit it harder.  You want to get control again.  So why not swing easier?  I know why, because you have a new driver, you expect to hit it further, and you're giving it that extra "juice" to get the distance.

I'm speaking a bit from personal experience.  I was fitted for a driver late last fall.  For a while after getting it, I'd subconsciously give it a bit extra, because I expected a big increase in distance.  That wasn't rational, the club was longer than my previous driver, but not by a bunch of yards, still, I expected "more", so I gave more effort.  And it didn't work, I was all over the place.  If I'm "patient" with my swing, if I let the club do what its supposed to do with just normal effort on my part, I get really good results.  

I don't want to be the guy that tries to kill it. I know that doesn't work. I'd like to be able to get to at least 80% of my power but right now I can only control it at about 50%. I'm leaving a lot on the table so I want to get the most out of my 80% swing. If that's 260 yards I'm happy but right now I'm having trouble getting to 240 and I know I can do better than that

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6 minutes ago, mbrodeur86 said:

I agree about chasing number. I assume my 5 iron should be higher than it is (at 12 yards like you said it would bring me around 200 yards) I try not to swing hard but fast like you say but I think my body doesn't understand what I'm trying to do lol

 

I certainly do NOT want to blame the fitter for this. It's my swing, I own up to it. I know I'm doing something wrong and will get a video going hopefully tonight (it's raining here) 

The distances you listed for your clubs are those carry or total? 

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1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The distances you listed for your clubs are those carry or total? 

total

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15 minutes ago, mbrodeur86 said:

total

You want to base your gapping on carry. Total is dependent on course and weather conditions, swing that day, potentially ball if not using same ball everytime. Would also check loft on your irons to make sure they didn’t some how get off kilter although your distances seem to be a consistent 7-8 yards between each 

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I don’t want to over simplify the fix to your challenges but the answers seem pretty simple to me. If the Mizuno is not working then stop using it. As for the gapping, not having a 10 to 15 yard gap between clubs is not a problem or even a concern. The key is to know where the ball is most likely to end up. If you are a single digit handicap guy then you probably have a good idea of your total carry for each club.

 

If you are hell-bent on using the Mizuno driver then let me pass along some of the best advice I’ve ever received in regards to hitting the driver. The key is to swing fast not hard. Swinging hard will take you down all types of swing path issues which will lead to the inconsistencies you have mentioned. Spank that a@#$ don’t pound it

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

 

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I'm lost on how a 5 HDCP player went through a certified pro for a fitting and walked away with a driver that can only be used at 50% swinging power? During the fitting, how did you hit it?

To me, the issue seems like a mental block. No confidence in the club. That is always tough to overcome. Just keep grinding. It will work itself out

 

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2 hours ago, Tsecor said:

I'm lost on how a 5 HDCP player went through a certified pro for a fitting and walked away with a driver that can only be used at 50% swinging power? During the fitting, how did you hit it?

To me, the issue seems like a mental block. No confidence in the club. That is always tough to overcome. Just keep grinding. It will work itself out

 

That day I had a bad slice because I was trying to get more ball speed. I told the fitter this was not my usual shot. He had me first try a Taylormade M5 or 6 can't remember and I couldn't get it off the ground. Had me try the epic flash sub zero which was nice but sounded like crap. Then he pulled out a Ping G410 and I was hooking it like I am now. The mizuno was really good and I had consistent ball speed which is why he suggested it and even though my swing wasn't it's usual self that day I was told that walking into a fitting with a bad swing is better because the fitter can try to curb the problem more. 

 

This is a swing issue by me - not the club. I think it's my swing plane to be honest. I'm going to try to get a video uploaded. Last night it rained so I couldn't go. Wil try tonight if it stops.

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It just seems odd because I am  not sure how you can be fit for a club you cant get off the ground.  I wonder if the fitter just settled for the mizuno because it was the only club you had ANY success with

The M6 is considered one of the best all around drivers regardless of swing speed. It tested out great across the spectrum. Did you try the TS2or 3?

Obviously its your swing if you cant get the ball airborne but id go back for another fitting once you get this worked out. Based on what you posted, that Mizuno may be all wrong for you. 

In a case like that, i would hope a professional fitter would make other suggestions for lessons first or potentially NOT spending $500 on a club. The whole process seems off to me.

 

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This is why I wont do a driver fitting. Gets my hopes up. As a 5 you should have a pretty dang good idea if you like it or not and go through with the purchase or not based on how you were swinging that day. I hit some spendy (for me) blades rcently and loved them but walked away until another day as my back was hurting after a long drive so I never  finished all the clubs. 

I wouldnt stress about the gapping too much with the longer clubs as its so easy to mishit just a bit. 

 

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In my experience with great fitters vs fitters at PGA superstores and places like that, its a world of difference. If you cant get the ball in the air, the fitter has no right telling you what club you should buy. as i stated, there has to be more to this story or the fitter didn't really do a professional job IMO.

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I enjoyed the experience. It was my first ever fitting. The guy was a certified professional. That day I was hitting horrible slices because I always thought that I had a 160 mph ball speed. My friend has an HD golf simulator and it measures ball speed. When I got there on gc quad it was 155 mph. I tried hard to get it to 160 and was trying to kill the ball. I did tell him this. Titleist or cobra or any other club were not brought out. I trusted the fitter and was open to try anything.

I think it's my swing plane. I am going to work hard this winter on building a repeatable driver swing.

I think the mizuno club is fine. I'm just frustrated that I can't hit the damn thing. I hit my 3 hybrid better and more solid. Lately further than the driver. Played by myself today and shot 78. I used my 3 hybrid off most holes. A down hill par 5 playing 477 yards I used my 3 hybrid off the deck 4 iron just short of the green chipped to about 15 ft and sank the birdie.

I just don't trust my swing with the driver right now and it's playing with my head. I don't want it going right so it goes low and left.

Sent from my VTR-L09 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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I enjoyed the experience. It was my first ever fitting. The guy was a certified professional. That day I was hitting horrible slices because I always thought that I had a 160 mph ball speed. My friend has an HD golf simulator and it measures ball speed. When I got there on gc quad it was 155 mph. I tried hard to get it to 160 and was trying to kill the ball. I did tell him this. Titleist or cobra or any other club were not brought out. I trusted the fitter and was open to try anything.

I think it's my swing plane. I am going to work hard this winter on building a repeatable driver swing.

I think the mizuno club is fine. I'm just frustrated that I can't hit the damn thing. I hit my 3 hybrid better and more solid. Lately further than the driver. Played by myself today and shot 78. I used my 3 hybrid off most holes. A down hill par 5 playing 477 yards I used my 3 hybrid off the deck 4 iron just short of the green chipped to about 15 ft and sank the birdie.

I just don't trust my swing with the driver right now and it's playing with my head. I don't want it going right so it goes low and left.

Sent from my VTR-L09 using MyGolfSpy mobile app



You need to remember that every
Simulator/launch monitor reads differently and can be even more different based on settings. This is why you generally compare old and new on the same day and just compare head to head.

Your last statement is probably the most telling, you aren’t swinging the club, you are trying to control the club.
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