VERY Angry - Need advice and help with Driver swing and gapping

[THEZIPR23]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Are you talking center face contact or for contact of center such as high toe and low heel 

All of the above. It won't be true for everyone but to say that there won't be increases is just not true. 

[RI_Redneck]

38 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I can prove to you that this is simply not true. While not everyone will see increased gains some will see large increases with different drivers fitted properly. 

Really? I'd be curious to see the results AND the specs of both clubs including SW and total weight. If the club's specs are virtually identical (which they should be if they are both PROPERLY FIT) and the golfer gets sizable differences during the same hitting session, I will eat my words AND, I'll be getting a new driver head.

BTW, I didn't say there wouldn't be increases, I said huge increases. And by properly fit, I mean a driver that is giving the specific golfer optimum consistent results with their normal swing. Properly fit 15 yrs ago is not properly fit.

BT

Edited October 18, 2019 by RI_Redneck

[THEZIPR23]

26 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

Really? I'd be curious to see the results AND the specs of both clubs including SW and total weight. If the club's specs are virtually identical (which they should be if they are both PROPERLY FIT) and the golfer gets sizable differences during the same hitting session, I will eat my words AND, I'll be getting a new driver head.

BTW, I didn't say there wouldn't be increases, I said huge increases. And by properly fit, I mean a driver that is giving the specific golfer optimum consistent results with their normal swing. Properly fit 15 yrs ago is not properly fit.

BT

I went from a Rogue fitted at club champion to an epic flash fitted through local fitter. Picked up 14 yards on off center hits and 11 yards on center hits. Granted it is not normal but it does happen. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

All of the above. It won't be true for everyone but to say that there won't be increases is just not true. 

Interesting because in all of my testing over the last 4-5 years ball speeds on center or very close to center are within a couple mph of each other and distance both carry and potential total  are also within a couple yards. Some instances like with the m5 my carry and ball speed were down compared to g400 and 917 but total was close due to launch and spin.

I would love to see the data you have comparing  center hits across the various properly fit drivers

[THEZIPR23]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Interesting because in all of my testing over the last 4-5 years ball speeds on center or very close to center are within a couple mph of each other and distance both carry and potential total  are also within a couple yards. Some instances like with the m5 my carry and ball speed were down compared to g400 and 917 but total was close due to launch and spin.

I would love to see the data you have comparing  center hits across the various properly fit drivers

All I have is my own experience. I may be an outlier but my experience is that there are huge differences. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

All I have is my own experience. I may be an outlier but my experience is that there are huge differences. 

And on the other end there’s videos like rick Shiels did for drivers from each brand over their last 5 releases showing minimal of any differences. 
 

the center of the face has been maxed out for years. Improvements have come from better technology in the ability to move weight around and change launch characteristics so for some there will be a gain...the significance level will vary from person to person. A 5 yard gain for one person may be insignificant because that is less than a full club where someone else might say wow I gained 5 yards and that’s huge to them.

is your data based on averages of strikes in fitting and on course or is it matching similar contact point to similar contact point?

if one tends to hit a driver low heel but bits another driver high toe they are going to perform differently even if fitted. I’ve seen people who never hit low heel only find that on the 2016 m2 driver regardless of shaft or hosel setting. 

[RI_Redneck]

1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I went from a Rogue fitted at club champion to an epic flash fitted through local fitter. Picked up 14 yards on off center hits and 11 yards on center hits. Granted it is not normal but it does happen. 

I see your epic flash in your sig has a AD Tour TSG Blue 65 X (no length or sw mentioned). Was this the same shaft you had in the Rogue? Just curious cause the adapter is the same. If not, could you please list the shaft from the Rogue.

The reason I ask is because a lot of "fittings", even from theoretically reputable fitters, are not as thorough as they should be. The shaft and weighting play a serious role in the performance of a club for a given individual. For example: The ST190 I mentioned in my original post. It was stock with the Atmos Black TS 65 S @ D2 45.5" w/ a total weight of 307g & a standard grip. I hit it okay like that, but dispersion and CHS (100-106) were quite erratic and I could tell it was way too light. I took it home, trimmed to 44.5" (which I prefer), installed my preferred grip MG Wrap (54g) built to my preferred size & taper, grabbed my lead tape and went back to the shop (SW went to C8 with the changes). I got back on the LM and started checking out the results. I started with 4x 2" strips (approx 2g each) of HD lead tape (brought SW to D2) and swung a few times. Dispersion was better and SS was more tight (102-108) but the club still felt too light. I put on 2 more strips and it brought my SS into my normal range of 105-108 and my ball flight became much more normal. Acceptable, but still felt a little light. I added 2 more strips and bingo! Felt like a dream and everything just clicked. In the end, I added 12g of weight to the clubhead and ended up with a SW around D6. Went back home and weighed the head (209g from the original 197g). That's what should happen when you get your fitted club handed to you. Especially if it was built off sight!

BT

[THEZIPR23]

16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And on the other end there’s videos like rick Shiels did for drivers from each brand over their last 5 releases showing minimal of any differences. 
 

the center of the face has been maxed out for years. Improvements have come from better technology in the ability to move weight around and change launch characteristics so for some there will be a gain...the significance level will vary from person to person. A 5 yard gain for one person may be insignificant because that is less than a full club where someone else might say wow I gained 5 yards and that’s huge to them.

is your data based on averages of strikes in fitting and on course or is it matching similar contact point to similar contact point?

if one tends to hit a driver low heel but bits another driver high toe they are going to perform differently even if fitted. I’ve seen people who never hit low heel only find that on the 2016 m2 driver regardless of shaft or hosel setting. 

The speed off the center of the face has been maxed out but speed is not the only factor. Side by side center hit to center hit the flash was considerably longer. Same with heel strikes. Toe hits were similar. Before testing I would have said there were not huge gains to be made. I changed my mind after seeing the results. I just went through another fitting last month and the closest I could get to ball speed of flash was with M5 and it was 7 yards shorter total. Nothing else was within 10 yards. 

[THEZIPR23]

33 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

I see your epic flash in your sig has a AD Tour TSG Blue 65 X (no length or sw mentioned). Was this the same shaft you had in the Rogue? Just curious cause the adapter is the same. If not, could you please list the shaft from the Rogue.

The reason I ask is because a lot of "fittings", even from theoretically reputable fitters, are not as thorough as they should be. The shaft and weighting play a serious role in the performance of a club for a given individual. For example: The ST190 I mentioned in my original post. It was stock with the Atmos Black TS 65 S @ D2 45.5" w/ a total weight of 307g & a standard grip. I hit it okay like that, but dispersion and CHS (100-106) were quite erratic and I could tell it was way too light. I took it home, trimmed to 44.5" (which I prefer), installed my preferred grip MG Wrap (54g) built to my preferred size & taper, grabbed my lead tape and went back to the shop (SW went to C8 with the changes). I got back on the LM and started checking out the results. I started with 4x 2" strips (approx 2g each) of HD lead tape (brought SW to D2) and swung a few times. Dispersion was better and SS was more tight (102-108) but the club still felt too light. I put on 2 more strips and it brought my SS into my normal range of 105-108 and my ball flight became much more normal. Acceptable, but still felt a little light. I added 2 more strips and bingo! Felt like a dream and everything just clicked. In the end, I added 12g of weight to the clubhead and ended up with a SW around D6. Went back home and weighed the head (209g from the original 197g). That's what should happen when you get your fitted club handed to you. Especially if it was built off sight!

BT

Rogue was paderson shaft at 45.5" When I got fitted for flash same shaft was 3-5 mph slower in ball speed with same shaft. Ended up with HZRDOUS smoke at 45.5" which was 6-8 mph over rouge. (was limited to stock shafts at that time) I now have AD blue at 45" ball speeds are very similar but dispersion is better. 

I get that I may be a unicorn but I don't believe that all heads are the same for everyone. Differences will vary but there are instances where they will be significant.