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mbrodeur86

VERY Angry - Need advice and help with Driver swing and gapping

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12 minutes ago, cnosil said:


You need to remember that every
Simulator/launch monitor reads differently
and can be even more different based on settings. This is why you generally compare old and new on the same day and just compare head to head.

Your last statement is probably the most telling, you aren’t swinging the club, you are trying to control the club.

I have seen 50 yd differences in simulators at different golf shops around here. 

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Had this same thing happen.  Went in to a fitting with an stress fracture injury that was causing issues with weight transfer.  Got a beautiful $500 dollar driver that I can’t hit now.  I’m going in for another fitting and this time bringing the ball I play and also will be 100% healthy. 

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On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 1:47 PM, mbrodeur86 said:

I'm just frustrated that I can't hit the damn thing.

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 1:47 PM, mbrodeur86 said:

I just don't trust my swing with the driver right now and it's playing with my head. I don't want it going right so it goes low and left.

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 12:10 PM, mbrodeur86 said:

I'd like to be able to get to at least 80% of my power but right now I can only control it at about 50%.

 

It sounds like you may need to hit the reset button.  I would guess no matter what you try you're just not going to be consistent, confident, or happy with the current club.  Continue to work on your swing as you mentioned.  Go for another fitting (different fitter?), and be sure to hit your 80% swings.  If you have to write it on a post-it note and stick it to your forehead to remind you not to over swing then do so!  Trade the old one for credit to offset some of the cost.  It sucks having to spend even more money on another driver but all you can do is chalk it up to one of those "mistake" purchases we have all made.  I think you'll be happier for it. 

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I have read through all of the comments and I agree with most of them, but I have one question that hasn't been asked.  When you tried the different driver heads were the shafts different as well.  If you are producing 155 -160 mph ball speed then I would guess that your swing speed is 100+.  You also say you have to swing at 50% to keep it in play, which is also a sign that the shaft might not be strong enough for you.  My club head speed is around 117 and until I went to a X Flex I could just let it go, I had to baby the swing in order for it not to go left.  What shaft was in your old driver?  I may have some that disagree with me, but the head of the driver is all about what the player likes to look at, the shaft is the engine.  So if you like looking down at the Mizuno head...then try a different shaft.

I hope this helps.


Hit'em straight and not too often!!!

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On 9/25/2019 at 10:14 AM, mbrodeur86 said:

 I was told that walking into a fitting with a bad swing is better because the fitter can try to curb the problem more.

This is total BS. You should be fitted to your normal swing because that's normally what you play with. Getting fitted when your swing is screwed up is NOT getting fitted. It's just buying a new club. That being said, I bought literally the same driver a couple of weeks ago. I have no problem hitting it because it is weighted and balanced properly for me. I ended up with the SW a bit higher than I normally use because of the shaft (lighter than I typically use). Many think that just going back to your old reliable SW is all that's needed, but that's not always the case. It may be "D2" or whatever SW that you typically like, but do the total weight & SW suit your swing? For example, I like a D4 SW with an 80g shaft, but not with a most 60g shafts. Just doesn't feel right. My subconscious wants a bit more weight for my tempo to stay right. I also understand that I'm not going to get some huge gain in distance with a new driver because that just doesn't happen unless your previous driver was very ill fitting to your swing. Yes, that is correct. Moving from one properly fitted driver to another properly fitted driver WILL NOT NECESSARILY GIVE YOU HUGE CHANGES IN RESULTS, PERIOD. The sooner people understand that the better off they'll be. Also, for anyone going into a fitting on a LM, take into consideration that are not flawless. I have seen my 108 SS displayed anywhere from 95 to 130. Ideally, when your getting fitted, you shouldn't be looking at the numbers until your done with the process. It's human nature to change things when your not seeing what you think you should.

As for your gapping issue, unless you are having swing issues with your irons, the first thing you want to do is have them checked for loft & lie to make sure they're not out of spec. Once that's done and you know they're correct, gapping comes down to quality of contact. However, if you are having issues with your swing, get that looked at immediately and don't worry about gapping until it's resolved. Trying to fix a problem when you don't know what the problem is, is an exercise in futility.

BT

Edited by RI_Redneck

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. Moving from one properly fitted driver to another properly fitted driver WILL NOT GIVE YOU HUGE CHANGES IN RESULTS, PERIOD. The sooner people understand that the better off they'll be.


This is not a blanket rule. Time between club releases, selecting a club that is a better fit due to weighting and balance, or making swing improvements are all reasons a different fitting could result in better performance.


what is the definition of huge? A 1* or less change in face angle at impact could be a huge change for a high swing speed player when looking at shot dispersion. A club that helps launch the ball a degree higher could result in more distance. Another example would be for fitting 1 I picked a specific head or manufacturer and was fit for that club. For fitting 2 I went more agnostic or picked a different manufacturer which could result in a better fit than the prior club.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

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55 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


This is not a blanket rule. Time between club releases, selecting a club that is a better fit due to weighting and balance, or making swing improvements are all reasons a different fitting could result in better performance.


what is the definition of huge? A 1* or less change in face angle at impact could be a huge change for a high swing speed player when looking at shot dispersion. A club that helps launch the ball a degree higher could result in more distance. Another example would be for fitting 1 I picked a specific head or manufacturer and was fit for that club. For fitting 2 I went more agnostic or picked a different manufacturer which could result in a better fit than the prior club.

Didn't want to elaborate too much since it was a long post to begin with, but huge, IMHO, is 20 yds longer or forest to fairways. The stuff that hardly anyone in these forums usually sees. Anecdotally, I have drivers manufactured from 2000 to 2019 that are properly fit to me and the performance differences between them are negligible at best. Of course, they are all the top models during that time and all have premium fitted shafts and grips. I admit that I have it far better than most because I was fitting clubs in the 80's and even though I no longer do it for others, I stay up on everything for myself. I am also fully aware that something as simple as a change in grip diameter or even texture can make a difference in results, just not usually huge differences like the OP was describing. Incidentally, I forgot to include the question asking if the OP was having the same issues with the driver he was previously using before the fitting? I'm rather curious if that was the case.

BT

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2 hours ago, RI_Redneck said:

 Moving from one properly fitted driver to another properly fitted driver WILL NOT NECESSARILY GIVE YOU HUGE CHANGES IN RESULTS, PERIOD. The sooner people understand that the better off they'll be.

I can prove to you that this is simply not true. While not everyone will see increased gains some will see large increases with different drivers fitted properly. 


:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 9.5* (Ventus Black 6X) 45"

:taylormade-small:             M5 15* (Ventus Black 7x) 43"

:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 18* (Tensei AV Blue 70 X)

:srixon-small:                     Z585 4-5 (KBS C Taper S)

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3 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I can prove to you that this is simply not true. While not everyone will see increased gains some will see large increases with different drivers fitted properly. 

Are you talking center face contact or for contact of center such as high toe and low heel 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Are you talking center face contact or for contact of center such as high toe and low heel 

All of the above. It won't be true for everyone but to say that there won't be increases is just not true. 


:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 9.5* (Ventus Black 6X) 45"

:taylormade-small:             M5 15* (Ventus Black 7x) 43"

:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 18* (Tensei AV Blue 70 X)

:srixon-small:                     Z585 4-5 (KBS C Taper S)

:srixon-small:                     Z785 6-AW (KBS C Taper S)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 55 08 M (KBS 610)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 59 04 L   (KBS 610)

:bettinardi-1:                Studio Stock 28 Slotback 33.5"

:bridgestone-small:       Tour BX

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38 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I can prove to you that this is simply not true. While not everyone will see increased gains some will see large increases with different drivers fitted properly. 

Really? I'd be curious to see the results AND the specs of both clubs including SW and total weight. If the club's specs are virtually identical (which they should be if they are both PROPERLY FIT) and the golfer gets sizable differences during the same hitting session, I will eat my words AND, I'll be getting a new driver head.

BTW, I didn't say there wouldn't be increases, I said huge increases. And by properly fit, I mean a driver that is giving the specific golfer optimum consistent results with their normal swing. Properly fit 15 yrs ago is not properly fit.

BT

Edited by RI_Redneck
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26 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

Really? I'd be curious to see the results AND the specs of both clubs including SW and total weight. If the club's specs are virtually identical (which they should be if they are both PROPERLY FIT) and the golfer gets sizable differences during the same hitting session, I will eat my words AND, I'll be getting a new driver head.

BTW, I didn't say there wouldn't be increases, I said huge increases. And by properly fit, I mean a driver that is giving the specific golfer optimum consistent results with their normal swing. Properly fit 15 yrs ago is not properly fit.

BT

I went from a Rogue fitted at club champion to an epic flash fitted through local fitter. Picked up 14 yards on off center hits and 11 yards on center hits. Granted it is not normal but it does happen. 


:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 9.5* (Ventus Black 6X) 45"

:taylormade-small:             M5 15* (Ventus Black 7x) 43"

:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 18* (Tensei AV Blue 70 X)

:srixon-small:                     Z585 4-5 (KBS C Taper S)

:srixon-small:                     Z785 6-AW (KBS C Taper S)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 55 08 M (KBS 610)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 59 04 L   (KBS 610)

:bettinardi-1:                Studio Stock 28 Slotback 33.5"

:bridgestone-small:       Tour BX

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"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

All of the above. It won't be true for everyone but to say that there won't be increases is just not true. 

Interesting because in all of my testing over the last 4-5 years ball speeds on center or very close to center are within a couple mph of each other and distance both carry and potential total  are also within a couple yards. Some instances like with the m5 my carry and ball speed were down compared to g400 and 917 but total was close due to launch and spin.

I would love to see the data you have comparing  center hits across the various properly fit drivers


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Interesting because in all of my testing over the last 4-5 years ball speeds on center or very close to center are within a couple mph of each other and distance both carry and potential total  are also within a couple yards. Some instances like with the m5 my carry and ball speed were down compared to g400 and 917 but total was close due to launch and spin.

I would love to see the data you have comparing  center hits across the various properly fit drivers

All I have is my own experience. I may be an outlier but my experience is that there are huge differences. 


:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 9.5* (Ventus Black 6X) 45"

:taylormade-small:             M5 15* (Ventus Black 7x) 43"

:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 18* (Tensei AV Blue 70 X)

:srixon-small:                     Z585 4-5 (KBS C Taper S)

:srixon-small:                     Z785 6-AW (KBS C Taper S)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 55 08 M (KBS 610)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 59 04 L   (KBS 610)

:bettinardi-1:                Studio Stock 28 Slotback 33.5"

:bridgestone-small:       Tour BX

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"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

All I have is my own experience. I may be an outlier but my experience is that there are huge differences. 

And on the other end there’s videos like rick Shiels did for drivers from each brand over their last 5 releases showing minimal of any differences. 
 

the center of the face has been maxed out for years. Improvements have come from better technology in the ability to move weight around and change launch characteristics so for some there will be a gain...the significance level will vary from person to person. A 5 yard gain for one person may be insignificant because that is less than a full club where someone else might say wow I gained 5 yards and that’s huge to them.

is your data based on averages of strikes in fitting and on course or is it matching similar contact point to similar contact point?

if one tends to hit a driver low heel but bits another driver high toe they are going to perform differently even if fitted. I’ve seen people who never hit low heel only find that on the 2016 m2 driver regardless of shaft or hosel setting. 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I went from a Rogue fitted at club champion to an epic flash fitted through local fitter. Picked up 14 yards on off center hits and 11 yards on center hits. Granted it is not normal but it does happen. 

I see your epic flash in your sig has a AD Tour TSG Blue 65 X (no length or sw mentioned). Was this the same shaft you had in the Rogue? Just curious cause the adapter is the same. If not, could you please list the shaft from the Rogue.

The reason I ask is because a lot of "fittings", even from theoretically reputable fitters, are not as thorough as they should be. The shaft and weighting play a serious role in the performance of a club for a given individual. For example: The ST190 I mentioned in my original post. It was stock with the Atmos Black TS 65 S @ D2 45.5" w/ a total weight of 307g & a standard grip. I hit it okay like that, but dispersion and CHS (100-106) were quite erratic and I could tell it was way too light. I took it home, trimmed to 44.5" (which I prefer), installed my preferred grip MG Wrap (54g) built to my preferred size & taper, grabbed my lead tape and went back to the shop (SW went to C8 with the changes). I got back on the LM and started checking out the results. I started with 4x 2" strips (approx 2g each) of HD lead tape (brought SW to D2) and swung a few times. Dispersion was better and SS was more tight (102-108) but the club still felt too light. I put on 2 more strips and it brought my SS into my normal range of 105-108 and my ball flight became much more normal. Acceptable, but still felt a little light. I added 2 more strips and bingo! Felt like a dream and everything just clicked. In the end, I added 12g of weight to the clubhead and ended up with a SW around D6. Went back home and weighed the head (209g from the original 197g). That's what should happen when you get your fitted club handed to you. Especially if it was built off sight!

BT

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16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And on the other end there’s videos like rick Shiels did for drivers from each brand over their last 5 releases showing minimal of any differences. 
 

the center of the face has been maxed out for years. Improvements have come from better technology in the ability to move weight around and change launch characteristics so for some there will be a gain...the significance level will vary from person to person. A 5 yard gain for one person may be insignificant because that is less than a full club where someone else might say wow I gained 5 yards and that’s huge to them.

is your data based on averages of strikes in fitting and on course or is it matching similar contact point to similar contact point?

if one tends to hit a driver low heel but bits another driver high toe they are going to perform differently even if fitted. I’ve seen people who never hit low heel only find that on the 2016 m2 driver regardless of shaft or hosel setting. 

The speed off the center of the face has been maxed out but speed is not the only factor. Side by side center hit to center hit the flash was considerably longer. Same with heel strikes. Toe hits were similar. Before testing I would have said there were not huge gains to be made. I changed my mind after seeing the results. I just went through another fitting last month and the closest I could get to ball speed of flash was with M5 and it was 7 yards shorter total. Nothing else was within 10 yards. 


:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 9.5* (Ventus Black 6X) 45"

:taylormade-small:             M5 15* (Ventus Black 7x) 43"

:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 18* (Tensei AV Blue 70 X)

:srixon-small:                     Z585 4-5 (KBS C Taper S)

:srixon-small:                     Z785 6-AW (KBS C Taper S)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 55 08 M (KBS 610)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 59 04 L   (KBS 610)

:bettinardi-1:                Studio Stock 28 Slotback 33.5"

:bridgestone-small:       Tour BX

:Arccos:

Twitter         @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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33 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

I see your epic flash in your sig has a AD Tour TSG Blue 65 X (no length or sw mentioned). Was this the same shaft you had in the Rogue? Just curious cause the adapter is the same. If not, could you please list the shaft from the Rogue.

The reason I ask is because a lot of "fittings", even from theoretically reputable fitters, are not as thorough as they should be. The shaft and weighting play a serious role in the performance of a club for a given individual. For example: The ST190 I mentioned in my original post. It was stock with the Atmos Black TS 65 S @ D2 45.5" w/ a total weight of 307g & a standard grip. I hit it okay like that, but dispersion and CHS (100-106) were quite erratic and I could tell it was way too light. I took it home, trimmed to 44.5" (which I prefer), installed my preferred grip MG Wrap (54g) built to my preferred size & taper, grabbed my lead tape and went back to the shop (SW went to C8 with the changes). I got back on the LM and started checking out the results. I started with 4x 2" strips (approx 2g each) of HD lead tape (brought SW to D2) and swung a few times. Dispersion was better and SS was more tight (102-108) but the club still felt too light. I put on 2 more strips and it brought my SS into my normal range of 105-108 and my ball flight became much more normal. Acceptable, but still felt a little light. I added 2 more strips and bingo! Felt like a dream and everything just clicked. In the end, I added 12g of weight to the clubhead and ended up with a SW around D6. Went back home and weighed the head (209g from the original 197g). That's what should happen when you get your fitted club handed to you. Especially if it was built off sight!

BT

Rogue was paderson shaft at 45.5" When I got fitted for flash same shaft was 3-5 mph slower in ball speed with same shaft. Ended up with HZRDOUS smoke at 45.5" which was 6-8 mph over rouge. (was limited to stock shafts at that time) I now have AD blue at 45" ball speeds are very similar but dispersion is better. 

I get that I may be a unicorn but I don't believe that all heads are the same for everyone. Differences will vary but there are instances where they will be significant. 


:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 9.5* (Ventus Black 6X) 45"

:taylormade-small:             M5 15* (Ventus Black 7x) 43"

:callaway-small:                      Epic Flash Sub Zero 18* (Tensei AV Blue 70 X)

:srixon-small:                     Z585 4-5 (KBS C Taper S)

:srixon-small:                     Z785 6-AW (KBS C Taper S)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 55 08 M (KBS 610)

:titelist-small:                      Vokey SM8 59 04 L   (KBS 610)

:bettinardi-1:                Studio Stock 28 Slotback 33.5"

:bridgestone-small:       Tour BX

:Arccos:

Twitter         @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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