Joker

[bluesmandan76]

That’s a pretty fair take. I am not going to debate for a couple reasons.

1) don’t necessarily believe I can express my true thoughts via type.
2) I like to keep my discussions apolitical and stray from contentious debate.

What I will say is that I am fascinated by the theory of helplessness and isolationism as a curator of those who are mass murderers and shooters.

It’s not to say that all who suffer are going to become murderers; rather, to say that if you look into those who are committing these crimes, they share a common bond. These thoughts and beliefs that the world has abandoned them and nobody is willing to acknowledge; that they’re out of your reach. These thoughts manifesting themselves and enabling extreme behavior.

Yes indeed. And I think one of the questions the movie intends to raise is to what degree is society (we/us) responsible for these people and their acts? In Joker it is quite clear that everyone — from the bullies to the mother to the father to the counselor to the show host — no one cared except a figment of his imagination, and so they all shared some degree of culpability in his metamorphosis. One gets the sense that if at any point someone had reached out to him in genuine friendship to notice him, pay attention to him, care for him then his descent from despair into madness would have stopped.


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[bens197]

Yes indeed. And I think one of the questions the movie intends to raise is to what degree is society (we/us) responsible for these people and their acts? In Joker it is quite clear that everyone — from the bullies to the mother to the father to the counselor to the show host — no one cared except a figment of his imagination, and so they all shared some degree of culpability in his metamorphosis. One gets the sense that if at any point someone had reached out to him in genuine friendship to notice him, pay attention to him, care for him then his descent from despair into madness would have stopped.


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Absolutely.

Be kind, smile at a stranger. Hang up your phone at the checkout...things like that.

[perseveringgolfer]

16 hours ago, bens197 said:

Be kind, smile at a stranger. Hang up your phone at the checkout...things like that.

 

you have to be a certain age to still use this term- a friends daughter asked me once what I meant by 'hanging up the phone" as kids these days only have cell phones or click to disconnect land lines. 

Made me feel a hundred years old 

[bens197]

you have to be a certain age to still use this term- a friends daughter asked me once what I meant by 'hanging up the phone" as kids these days only have cell phones or click to disconnect land lines. 
Made me feel a hundred years old 

Yup...old soul trapped in a 38 year old body

I’ll grab a Kleenex for you right after I make a quick xerox copy

[JohnSmalls]

On 11/19/2019 at 8:28 AM, bluesmandan76 said:

If i can piggyback on your “alienation and helplessness” line, the movie also serves as an interesting critique of existentialism and existential nihilism. The way he transitions from not being sure he even existed and not knowing who he was to finding his purpose and “real” identity — as a murderer... the world was harsh and didn’t make sense so he just followed his heart and did what made him happy, defining his own life, despite what others thought. Good advice, right?! Oops. But isn’t that what everyone says today?

[stands up and gets on soapbox]: I despise existentialism and nihilism and am glad when anything critiques these horrible worldviews. Every idiot college philosophy professor seems to think these empty evil philosophies are wonderful, even though it is the proliferation of these views that has led to many of our current societal problems. They claim these views are liberating, but they only “work” if everyone around you is still living with a somewhat unified worldview and morality. When everyone around you turns existential & nihilistic too then chaos ensues, society falls apart and institutions crumble because everyone is subjectively defining their own purpose & reality - and that is philosophical, religious, and moral anarchy. [Gets off soapbox]

I appreciate movies that have an intentional philosophical purpose... something deeper to say about the way people think or the way our culture understands (or misunderstands) things. Sadly most movies unintentionally (and some very intentionally) promote bad philosophies instead of critiquing them.

I think many people find Joker too dark in part because they themselves have adopted an existential & nihilistic worldview and the movie dethrones that view as empty and absurd without supplying a better alternative worldview to replace what it has so harshly criticized.

Not that people intellectually grasp this when they watch a movie; they just feel the darkness of the way the character is thinking and changing. But the fact that they were able to sympathize with the character means they were at some level thinking and feeling like him, and that is disturbing to them.


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I will echo a similar sentiment and say that this is a very interesting take on the movie.  I was not expecting to log onto MGS today and engage with a point on philosophical worldviews and how they intertwine with today's culture.  Nor did I anticipate that I would enjoy reading about such.  Kudos to you. Now I have to see the movie!

[bluesmandan76]

I will echo a similar sentiment and say that this is a very interesting take on the movie.  I was not expecting to log onto MGS today and engage with a point on philosophical worldviews and how they intertwine with today's culture.  Nor did I anticipate that I would enjoy reading about such.  Kudos to you. Now I have to see the movie!

So have you seen it yet?


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[JohnSmalls]

Not yet.  Only had one chance to go to the theater in the past month and my lady vetoed seeing The Joker.  Hopefully soon.

[chisag]

... SAG Award nominees released and Joker is up for:

 Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Leading Role

Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Motion Picture

[bluesmandan76]

Huh. The first one, sure, but the second... I didn’t realize there were so many good stunts in it. Don’t remember it that way. Have to pay attention to that next time.


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