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Why are Lofts getting JACKED


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3 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Here's my thing with this. I'd hazard most golfers, even serious ones, have a 20+ yard gap between say a hybrid, long iron or a fairway wood and their longest fairway wood. I'd also guess most people have a 30 yard gap from their longest wood to their driver.

I've seen more than a few YouTube golf pros making videos out there with a system for hitting shots with their wedges, whether its half swing, 3/4 swing, full swing with this club goes this far, or the clocking system where a 10 to 2 swing goes this far.

Point being, they seem to have a system for hitting exact yardages in 5 yard increments with their wedges, but no one does this with the longest clubs in their bag, where their gaps are at their largest.

We're generally more comfortable manipulating wedges than fairway woods, so I guess my question is, maybe we should consider having our largest gaps with our wedges?

Of course, beyond the longest wood and the driver, I do think 30 yards is too much of a gap. But I do think any reasonably skilled golfer could get by quite comfortably with 20 yard gaps between their wedges.
 

 

I believe that MOST golfers have swing speeds under 100mph, but I don't know that for a fact.  What I do know is that for those "average golfers"... like me, there will be no 20+ yard gap between any of their long clubs.  Quite the opposite really.  The slower the speed, the more that the long clubs go the same distance.  They will all be within 20 yards of each other.  I did that test with my wife this summer.  She hit her 3W, 5W, 3H, 4H all about the same carry distance; longer clubs got more roll.  I'm not sure why she carries them all.

There is also the issue of how the "average golfer" uses their long clubs.  I will use me as an example, but I'm pretty sure that I am not unique.  I will hit driver on every par 4 and par 5 unless there is a hazard that is within range.  My 3W I mostly hit to advance the ball down the fairway trying to get as close to the green as possible; sometimes I will use my 2H for the same purpose.  The 2H and 4H (I have no 3H) is used to try for a green depending on the yardage.  I have used driver, 3W, 2H and 4H off the tee on par 3's.  My longest iron is a 6i which is 24º.  I like my gapping.

I have a PW and 2 other wedges.  With them I can play any yardage under 110 I want.  And YES, that's only 13 clubs.  I really don't know what club I would add. Another hybrid doesn't fill a gap, and I've had 4 wedges but since the PW is the only one I hit full, there is no reason to carry another one.  I did carry 2 drivers a couple of times because of wind.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Came across this video by average golfer. Good comparison of how club tech has really changed.



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On 10/20/2019 at 8:27 PM, FrogginBullfish said:

Most of the bitching about jacked lofts, it seems, comes from people with enough speed already who are capable of hitting longer irons in blades, or player's cavity backs, with gameable ball flights and distance gaps. The players, these so-called "jacked loft" clubs are designed for, can't. Their long irons in bladed sets tend to bunch together and the ball flights aren't gameable at all.

This always seems to get overlooked in this argument. Jacked lofts, for above average swing speed players, will create gaps at the bottom of the bag. I don't doubt that at all. With my new irons, I plan on carrying a PW at 44 degrees, GW at 48 degrees, and 52, 56 and 60 degree wedges. Five wedges total. I tried a GW at 48, 54 and 60 degree wedges but the six degrees of difference between clubs was too much for me this season.

Sure, maybe jacked lofts aren't purist, but they sure help people like my in-laws who need every ounce of forgiveness and distance they can get. They already have to pick and choose their courses so that they are short enough to play, an extra 10 yards (hopefully straight) on their irons throughout the bag is a huge help to them. But again, we're talking about people who average 175-ish yards and 100-125 yards or so on their drives. There are no gaps at the bottom of the bag when every hole is basically driver, hybrid, mid/short iron, plus chipping if they miss the green.

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On 10/21/2019 at 10:07 PM, Kenny B said:

I believe that MOST golfers have swing speeds under 100mph, but I don't know that for a fact.  What I do know is that for those "average golfers"... like me, there will be no 20+ yard gap between any of their long clubs.  Quite the opposite really.  The slower the speed, the more that the long clubs go the same distance.  

I believe you are correct.  For this reason, I asked my fitter about mixing the G410 std. and power lofts - perhaps using the power spec loft on the 4i and 5i.  He did not recommend doing so citing the likelihood of excessive gaps.  I wish I could have tested this premise.  

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I kind of hate to keep rehashing this point, but I asked the people--Fitter and R&D--at Titleist this week about the stronger lofts of today versus 5-10-15 years ago.    He said it's just a matter of evolution of materials and designs, clubs 10 years ago were built with better technology than 30 years ago and lofts were adjusted at that time, it's just more of a "hot topic" these days.

He said he can't speak for their competitors as to their marketing, he can only speak to Titleist design and the lofts are adjusted to keep within certain launch and spin characteristics to maintain optimal decent angles.   That is a portion of the of the fitting process that has gone overlooked by many and it's as important probably more important than the spin of an iron when it comes to stopping an iron on the green. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I kind of hate to keep rehashing this point, but I asked the people--Fitter and R&D--at Titleist this week about the stronger lofts of today versus 5-10-15 years ago.    He said it's just a matter of evolution of materials and designs, clubs 10 years ago were built with better technology than 30 years ago and lofts were adjusted at that time, it's just more of a "hot topic" these days.

He said he can't speak for their competitors as to their marketing, he can only speak to Titleist design and the lofts are adjusted to keep within certain launch and spin characteristics to maintain optimal decent angles.   That is a portion of the of the fitting process that has gone overlooked by many and it's as important probably more important than the spin of an iron when it comes to stopping an iron on the green. 

 

Bolded is what every person against “jacked lofts” tends to ignore. 

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Bolded is what every person against “jacked lofts” tends to ignore. 


It is a discussion that will never be settled.
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13 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


It is a discussion that will never be settled.

 

Just like Cast v Forged

Blades vs GI

walk vs ride

Topics like these will keep golf forums alive 🙂 

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14 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


It is a discussion that will never be settled.

 

That’s for sure. Doesn’t matter where you go on the internet the topic seems to come up 3-4x/year and it’s the same statements in every thread just usually reworded. 
 

 

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Curious who among the forum are using a mixed bag of "standard" and "power" lofts, in which clubs, why, and how they are performing?  I'm currently wanting something between my 4i and my G400 3w.  I'm thinking the G410 2 or 3 crossover or possibly a G400 5w... but wonder how a G410 4i power loft might work. 🤔

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3 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Just like Cast v Forged

Blades vs GI

walk vs ride

Topics like these will keep golf forums alive 🙂 

Don't forget human vs. robot 🤣.

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1 minute ago, fixyurdivot said:

Don't forget human vs. robot 🤣.

Yep,

Or 

IOS vs Android 🙂

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48 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I kind of hate to keep rehashing this point, but I asked the people--Fitter and R&D--at Titleist this week about the stronger lofts of today versus 5-10-15 years ago.    He said it's just a matter of evolution of materials and designs, clubs 10 years ago were built with better technology than 30 years ago and lofts were adjusted at that time, it's just more of a "hot topic" these days.

He said he can't speak for their competitors as to their marketing, he can only speak to Titleist design and the lofts are adjusted to keep within certain launch and spin characteristics to maintain optimal decent angles.   That is a portion of the of the fitting process that has gone overlooked by many and it's as important probably more important than the spin of an iron when it comes to stopping an iron on the green. 

 

Glad you asked the Titleist fitters I'm sure they get asked that all the time or at least hear peoples whispers about it. Glad to get actual OEM feedback. I like the fact that they mentioned OPTIMAL decent angle because I would assume more loft would create steeper decent which my not be optimal. 

Launch and decent angle is very important factors in iron fitting. I am not a fitter or expert in the matter by any mean but I feel that the launch angle and spin in flight determine the decent angle. More backspin would cause more drag and loss of forward momentum causing steeper decent angle. 

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2 minutes ago, pozzit said:

Glad you asked the Titleist fitters I'm sure they get asked that all the time or at least hear peoples whispers about it. Glad to get actual OEM feedback. I like the fact that they mentioned OPTIMAL decent angle because I would assume more loft would create steeper decent which my not be optimal. 

Launch and decent angle is very important factors in iron fitting. I am not a fitter or expert in the matter by any mean but I feel that the launch angle and spin in flight determine the decent angle. More backspin would cause more drag and loss of forward momentum causing steeper decent angle. 

Yes, a lot of that is true.  They also mentioned the increased speed from the newer faces and lower lofts are able to maintan the same launch windows as higher lofts.    So it's all basically a puzzle and balancing act that they--the engineers spend countless hours working on---It's not just crank this down 2 degrees and lets sell it ...(not saying you were sayng that, just an observation that there is a lot more to designing clubs than just lowering the loft for more distance. 

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

Curious who among the forum are using a mixed bag of "standard" and "power" lofts, in which clubs, why, and how they are performing?  I'm currently wanting something between my 4i and my G400 3w.  I'm thinking the G410 2 or 3 crossover or possibly a G400 5w... but wonder how a G410 4i power loft might work. 🤔

I doubt anyone is using that. Most using power specs are looking for the help all the way thru the bag and those not playing power specs would use a hybrid or crossover in the longer clubs. 
 

it would probably depend on loft and what the gapping is or maybe require 2 different 4is(I haven’t looked at specs) 

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40 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I doubt anyone is using that. Most using power specs are looking for the help all the way thru the bag and those not playing power specs would use a hybrid or crossover in the longer clubs. 
 

it would probably depend on loft and what the gapping is or maybe require 2 different 4is(I haven’t looked at specs) 

I was thinking along the lines of what @Kenny Bbrought up; that for the slower swing speed players, distances in the low iron often start to merge.  The idea here would be to spread that a bit.

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2 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I was thinking along the lines of what @Kenny Bbrought up; that for the slower swing speed players, distances in the low iron often start to merge.  The idea here would be to spread that a bit.

My thought on that. if you are struggling with swing speed.  Your best option on the top end of the bag is go with Hybrids vs stronger lofted irons.   

I know it's the case for me.  I stop at the 6 iron.  There would be no benefit to me to hit a 23 or even 22 degree 5 iron.  

I'm better off with a 24 degree hybrid in that spot.  

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1 hour ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

My thought on that. if you are struggling with swing speed.  Your best option on the top end of the bag is go with Hybrids vs stronger lofted irons.   

I know it's the case for me.  I stop at the 6 iron.  There would be no benefit to me to hit a 23 or even 22 degree 5 iron.  

I'm better off with a 24 degree hybrid in that spot.  

Thanks for the advice.  Finding this missing link is my winter mission while in AZ.

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4 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I was thinking along the lines of what @Kenny Bbrought up; that for the slower swing speed players, distances in the low iron often start to merge.  The idea here would be to spread that a bit.

 

1 hour ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

My thought on that. if you are struggling with swing speed.  Your best option on the top end of the bag is go with Hybrids vs stronger lofted irons.   

I know it's the case for me.  I stop at the 6 iron.  There would be no benefit to me to hit a 23 or even 22 degree 5 iron.  

I'm better off with a 24 degree hybrid in that spot.  

I’m with rob. Regardless of the lofts the slower the swing speed the harder to get the iron in the air. Hybrids and woods offer more launch and the ability to get the ball flying.

amateurs tend to hit 5w better than 3w because of the loft giving better flight characteristics.

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

 

I’m with rob. Regardless of the lofts the slower the swing speed the harder to get the iron in the air. Hybrids and woods offer more launch and the ability to get the ball flying.

amateurs tend to hit 5w better than 3w because of the loft giving better flight characteristics.

And sometimes a shorter shaft IS a good thing. 😜

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